Newby back...need help for next step

"Randall Ainsworth" wrote in message
...
In article Nixld.978$063.56@trndny03, Gene Palmiter
wrote:

This is the first time something here didn't sound right. The fill is
usually less than the main? Oh...maybe you mean its determined by the
fill....and adjusted from there.

No...that can't be right...maybe you mean....if the main is the light by
the
camera then it fills the face...the fill then lights up the
shadows....not....it must be brighter than the main....and casts the
shadows? So by metering off the fill you are metering off the brightest
light....is that how you mean it?

In a basic two-light setup, you have one light (generally large and
soft) that is the fill light - or the shadows if you will. The main
light is what provides direction. For a basic 3:1 ratio, the main
should be one stop brighter than the fill and both are on the same side
of the camera.
Short lighting is preferable for most people - where the side of the
face to the camera is in shadow.

OK...I will try to rephrase to get it down...
http://palmiter.dotphoto.com/CPViewA...0176348&Page=1
This is an uneducated shot using two strobes....mug shot set up.

I have 2 low-powered strobes now...and have a higher power one coming. I
have brellas for all. So I set my best one near camera position...it's
800Ws...with a belle. Set another (just 120ws I think) 30 or so degrees to
the side away from the camera...just out of frame...for some shadows to
shape the face with shadows. The third light (120ws) can be behind the model
and light the backdrop and bounce back to light hair (until I get a light
with a snoot to light just the hair). Number 1 (main) should have a
brella...the other two should not. Is that about right?

Once I get this part right...then we discuss metering....I meter off the one
to the side? The fill? And adjust the main to not over power the fill?

"Randall Ainsworth" wrote in message
...
In article Nixld.978$063.56@trndny03, Gene Palmiter
wrote:

This is the first time something here didn't sound right. The fill is
usually less than the main? Oh...maybe you mean its determined by the
fill....and adjusted from there.

No...that can't be right...maybe you mean....if the main is the light by
the
camera then it fills the face...the fill then lights up the
shadows....not....it must be brighter than the main....and casts the
shadows? So by metering off the fill you are metering off the brightest
light....is that how you mean it?

In a basic two-light setup, you have one light (generally large and
soft) that is the fill light - or the shadows if you will. The main
light is what provides direction. For a basic 3:1 ratio, the main
should be one stop brighter than the fill and both are on the same side
of the camera.
Short lighting is preferable for most people - where the side of the
face to the camera is in shadow.

OK...I will try to rephrase to get it down...
http://palmiter.dotphoto.com/CPViewA...0176348&Page=1
This is an uneducated shot using two strobes....mug shot set up.

I have 2 low-powered strobes now...and have a higher power one coming. I
have brellas for all. So I set my best one near camera position...it's
800Ws...with a belle. Set another (just 120ws I think) 30 or so degrees to
the side away from the camera...just out of frame...for some shadows to
shape the face with shadows. The third light (120ws) can be behind the model
and light the backdrop and bounce back to light hair (until I get a light
with a snoot to light just the hair). Number 1 (main) should have a
brella...the other two should not. Is that about right?

Once I get this part right...then we discuss metering....I meter off the one
to the side? The fill? And adjust the main to not over power the fill?

"Gene Palmiter" writes:

do.

So...If I use 2 or 3 monos do I meter them one at a time? Crap...I don't
even know enough to know which questions to ask. How do I get started?
The most common way to meter flash is to take an incident reading
firing all the heads at once. I imagine your units have built-in
slave sensors that are active whenever a wired trigger isn't connected
to them, so that's the easiest way to read the light; the flashes all
*want* to go off at once anyway.

Right ...all have work as slaves. I plug one into the camera. I cannot see
doing all this with a model present....just seems it might take awhile.
OK....if I meter with them all going....then how does that show the
relationship between them?

In the metering? It doesn't. That's what the modeling lights are for
(but only trust them if the room is otherwise dark), or after a while
for ordinary setups you just know how they're supposed to me.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, , http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
RKBA: http://noguns-nomoney.com/ http://www.dd-b.net/carry/
Pics: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/
Dragaera/Steven Brust: http://dragaera.info/

"Gene Palmiter" writes:

do.

So...If I use 2 or 3 monos do I meter them one at a time? Crap...I don't
even know enough to know which questions to ask. How do I get started?
The most common way to meter flash is to take an incident reading
firing all the heads at once. I imagine your units have built-in
slave sensors that are active whenever a wired trigger isn't connected
to them, so that's the easiest way to read the light; the flashes all
*want* to go off at once anyway.

Right ...all have work as slaves. I plug one into the camera. I cannot see
doing all this with a model present....just seems it might take awhile.
OK....if I meter with them all going....then how does that show the
relationship between them?

In the metering? It doesn't. That's what the modeling lights are for
(but only trust them if the room is otherwise dark), or after a while
for ordinary setups you just know how they're supposed to me.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, , http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
RKBA: http://noguns-nomoney.com/ http://www.dd-b.net/carry/
Pics: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/
Dragaera/Steven Brust: http://dragaera.info/

Randall Ainsworth writes:

In article , David Dyer-Bennet
wrote:

Say what? Not the main? If taken at face value this seems to me be
guaranteed to produce exposure more than a stop off.

Exposure is based on the fill light. That's the foundation you start
from, then add the main to achieve whatever lighting ratio you're
after...and then add whatever accent lights are desired.

But the main is generally a stop brighter than the fill, yes? So
doesn't this give rather burned out highlights?

Now, I should probably qualify this. With film, you did densitometer
tests to determine where the shadows should fall on the curve. With
digital, it would be different. I haven't used my studio stobes with
digital yet so I can't say.

Not really different, I think, except in fine details.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, , http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
RKBA: http://noguns-nomoney.com/ http://www.dd-b.net/carry/
Pics: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/
Dragaera/Steven Brust: http://dragaera.info/

Randall Ainsworth writes:

In article , David Dyer-Bennet
wrote:

Say what? Not the main? If taken at face value this seems to me be
guaranteed to produce exposure more than a stop off.

Exposure is based on the fill light. That's the foundation you start
from, then add the main to achieve whatever lighting ratio you're
after...and then add whatever accent lights are desired.

But the main is generally a stop brighter than the fill, yes? So
doesn't this give rather burned out highlights?

Now, I should probably qualify this. With film, you did densitometer
tests to determine where the shadows should fall on the curve. With
digital, it would be different. I haven't used my studio stobes with
digital yet so I can't say.

Not really different, I think, except in fine details.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, , http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
RKBA: http://noguns-nomoney.com/ http://www.dd-b.net/carry/
Pics: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/
Dragaera/Steven Brust: http://dragaera.info/

Ok...I have an alien bee on order...but have my flash meter now. As
mentioned...its a cheapie, but shooting digital I just didn't see the need
for a good one that I don't expect to use that much. Its a learning tool.
I
have come to expect little by way of documentation now-a-days but what
came
with this meter was pathetic. It merely shows what the buttons do.

So...If I use 2 or 3 monos do I meter them one at a time? Crap...I don't
even know enough to know which questions to ask. How do I get started?


a paint brush doesn't come with instructions on how to paint...

first off, learn to light with one source, to get an image with detail in
the highlights down to the shadows, once you can do that, well if you only
have one light that the exposure is based on your question is answered.

conflicting advice you might hear is because there are two systems of
exposure, in the early days everything was based on fill light or a base
threshold exposure, you exposed for a fill light by the old maxim, the
minimum exposure to get a maximum black. the key was added and the
strength adjusted for the desired dramatic effect.

modern exposure systems are based on the key light exposure for a couple
reasons, many lightings only have a single light, whether its a large
softbox, scrim curtain or other northlight/wall of light concepts, or open
shade, twilight etc. also digital requires accurate highlight exposure more
than negative film stock required shadow/threshold exposure.

Ok...I have an alien bee on order...but have my flash meter now. As
mentioned...its a cheapie, but shooting digital I just didn't see the need
for a good one that I don't expect to use that much. Its a learning tool.
I
have come to expect little by way of documentation now-a-days but what
came
with this meter was pathetic. It merely shows what the buttons do.

So...If I use 2 or 3 monos do I meter them one at a time? Crap...I don't
even know enough to know which questions to ask. How do I get started?


a paint brush doesn't come with instructions on how to paint...

first off, learn to light with one source, to get an image with detail in
the highlights down to the shadows, once you can do that, well if you only
have one light that the exposure is based on your question is answered.

conflicting advice you might hear is because there are two systems of
exposure, in the early days everything was based on fill light or a base
threshold exposure, you exposed for a fill light by the old maxim, the
minimum exposure to get a maximum black. the key was added and the
strength adjusted for the desired dramatic effect.

modern exposure systems are based on the key light exposure for a couple
reasons, many lightings only have a single light, whether its a large
softbox, scrim curtain or other northlight/wall of light concepts, or open
shade, twilight etc. also digital requires accurate highlight exposure more
than negative film stock required shadow/threshold exposure.

David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
Randall Ainsworth writes:

In article , David Dyer-Bennet
wrote:

Say what? Not the main? If taken at face value this seems to me
be guaranteed to produce exposure more than a stop off.

Exposure is based on the fill light. That's the foundation you
start from, then add the main to achieve whatever lighting ratio
you're after...and then add whatever accent lights are desired.

But the main is generally a stop brighter than the fill, yes? So
doesn't this give rather burned out highlights?

It gives overexposed film. If the ratio is high it gives *grossly*
overexposed film.

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.05...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
Randall Ainsworth writes:

In article , David Dyer-Bennet
wrote:

Say what? Not the main? If taken at face value this seems to me
be guaranteed to produce exposure more than a stop off.

Exposure is based on the fill light. That's the foundation you
start from, then add the main to achieve whatever lighting ratio
you're after...and then add whatever accent lights are desired.

But the main is generally a stop brighter than the fill, yes? So
doesn't this give rather burned out highlights?

It gives overexposed film. If the ratio is high it gives *grossly*
overexposed film.

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.05...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico