Finding restaurants

On 1/21/2015 4:16 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2015-01-21 20:55:50 +0000, PeterN said:

On 1/21/2015 2:41 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2015-01-21 18:53:38 +0000, nospam said:

In article , PAS
wrote:

Too much added sugar, usually. Same with most chinese food joints.

Where are these places which add all this sugar? As for Chinese food
joints, the most nasty food additive is MSG.

MSG?

Monosodium glutamate. It enhances flavor,

that's the claim, but the reality is that it stimulates the taste buds.

It also usually pushes most folks over daily sodium intake limits and is
a serious health hazard for hypertensives and those with questionable
kidney function.

MSG can be a killer.

Chinese food is notorious for
having large amounts of it.

the better places don't add it and you can always ask for no msg from
the ****tier places (and hopefully they comply with the request).

However, some places with good reputations, have been know to over use
MSG without advising any patrons that they use it. Some even deny
using it.

A lot of packaged foods contain it.

some do and it's easy to not buy those.

Read the labels.

My
wife cannot tolerate it, she gets headaches from it. A large dose in
food will cause much more than a headache. Fortunately, the effects
don't last long for her but it's still bad for the short time it does
affect her.

easily avoided.

Read the labels.

I think i posted about this before. Product label: "No sugar added"
2nd or 3rd ingredient. Dehydrated organic cane syrup.

You have to CAREFULLY read the labels.

Yup! Sugar can be sneaky, and can cloak itself as carbohydrates.
Diabetics have to pay particular attention to food ingredients.

I know. My wife is diabetic.


...then there is alcohol.

That too. In 1989 I had type A hepatitus and had zero tolerance for
alcohol. About 4 months later I had a beer labled non-alcoholic beer. It
had alcohol content of about .5% That one sip sent me reeling.

--
PeterN

On 1/21/2015 4:14 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:

I think i posted about this before. Product label: "No sugar added"
2nd or 3rd ingredient. Dehydrated organic cane syrup.

dehydrated organic cane syrup is not the same as sugar.


Never said it was.
To a daibetic it is the same thing.

it doesn't matter if they're equivalent or not. as an ingredient, it's
different.

You have to CAREFULLY read the labels.

yes.




--
PeterN

On 2015-01-21 21:14:02 +0000, nospam said:

In article , PeterN
wrote:

I think i posted about this before. Product label: "No sugar added"
2nd or 3rd ingredient. Dehydrated organic cane syrup.

dehydrated organic cane syrup is not the same as sugar.

it doesn't matter if they're equivalent or not. as an ingredient, it's
different.

From a dietary point of view they are identical, just at a different
stage of refinement. For a diabetic there is no difference.

http://www.processedfreeamerica.org/resources/health-news/405-the-truth-about-evaporated-cane-juice
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2012/10/18/163098211/evaporated-cane-juice-sugar-in-disguise
http://authoritynutrition.com/6-healthy-sugars-that-can-kill-you/
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/evaporated-cane-juice-better-sugar

You

have to CAREFULLY read the labels.

yes.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

In article 201501211422417217-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom, Savageduck
wrote:

I think i posted about this before. Product label: "No sugar added"
2nd or 3rd ingredient. Dehydrated organic cane syrup.

dehydrated organic cane syrup is not the same as sugar.

it doesn't matter if they're equivalent or not. as an ingredient, it's
different.

From a dietary point of view they are identical, just at a different
stage of refinement. For a diabetic there is no difference.

for a food manufacturer, they are different.

knowing what they mean is important. the food companies know it will
fool some people. don't be those people.

In article , Andreas Skitsnack wrote:

Sandman:
that way you do in the states. But our cattle are
fed by grazing in pastures,

Andreas Skitsnack:
Grass will not sustain a large herd of beef cattle. They are
fed supplemental products; grain in some parts of the country
and corn in other parts of the country. Grass-fed beef, unless
the animal is part of a very small group and is pastured in a
large area, is tough and flavorless.

Sandman:
Wow, that's the largest pile of bull**** you've posted in a long
while. I suppose it might be something an American would try to
convince himself about.

What is it you ask for? Proof? Provide it. A large herd will
over-graze a pasture.

It's hard to find English-speaking sources, seeing how Americans actually
think factory grain-fed meat is better for you. Gress-fed leads to leaner
meat, less fat, meaning that the taste comes more from the meat and less
from the fat.


http://www.thekitchn.com/grassfed-vs...eef-what-79032
"A grass-fed steak, cooked properly, will be just as juicy, and it will
have better flavor from the natural diet of the cow."

And grain-fed meat missses out of some important stuff:

http://chriskresser.com/why-grass-fed-trumps-grain-fed
"What you’ll be missing out on are the significantly higher levels of
omega-3s found in grass-fed beef"

"Grass-fed beef consistently contains a higher proportion of stearic acid,
which even the mainstream scientific community acknowledges does not raise
blood cholesterol levels. This higher proportion of stearic acid means
that grass-fed beef also contains lower proportions of palmitic and
myristic acid, which are more likely to raise cholesterol."

"Another reason grass-fed meat surpasses grain-fed is that it contains
considerably more antioxidants, vitamins, and minerals"

etc, etc...

--
Sandman[.net]

In article , nospam wrote:

Andreas Skitsnack:
It's well-known and general knowledge that the Yelp review that
says "Great food and great service" was probably provided by a
waiter at that restaurant. If you want an outside opinion, see

Sandman:
"well known" and "probably"... Hmm, no proof there.

how about you prove they don't? oh yea, you can't, because they do.

When did I claim they don't? I have made no claim in need of support.



--
Sandman[.net]

In article , nospam wrote:

Sandman:
Not at all. I like testing different food.
Unfortunately, Americans don't season their food much at all,
especially not in tourist-heavy areas, where most tourists
are Americans.

nospam:
that's because not everyone likes spicy food, so restaurants in
tourist-heavy areas will tend to be bland.

again, you're picking the wrong restaurants.

Sandman:
And, as I've said many times now, picking the "right" restaurant
is pretty hard for a foreigner with limited time to do any
research, which is my point. If you were in downtown Västerås
(where I live) and picked a restaurant at random, you'd be sure
that it has great quality food.

not necessarily.

Incorrect.

Sandman:
That said, it's not certain that *you* may like the food, but the
ingredient quality will be top notch.

not necessarily.

Incorrect.

i'm sure it's a wonderful place but to claim that every restaurant
is excellent is completely bull****.

Why can't you read? They may be terrible cooks and it may taste like ****,
but the *ingredients* are of very high quality. That's my point. I said
great *quality* food, not necessairly great tasting food. Anyone can botch
up a perfectly good piece of meat.

Sandman:
Yeah, but who's to blame? Me for not knowing, or for the fact that
there are way too many ****ty restaurants around?

you for not knowing or taking the time to pick better restaurants.

Yeah, you keep claiming that, but I've yet to see you tell me what I should
have done. Remember, we're a family returning in the evening from a Disney
Park, we're driving through the orland tourist strip and we're hungry. How
do we find a great restaurant?

any idiot would know that fast food such as taco bell is going to be
at best, not that great.

Of course, are you claiming I went there thinking it would be great? Haha.
I went there thinking "sure, I'll try it, seems popular, and hey - I do
like taco's". What I didn't know is that the restaurant would force-rape my
tastebuds.

nospam:
you flew all the way to the usa and went to a taco bell??
seriously??? wtf is wrong with you?

taco bell is ****ty fast food. wtf did you expect?

Sandman:
Oh no, don't give me that! ****ty fast food has it's place. Taco
Bell is a LOT worse than ****ty fast food. It was the worst thing
I've put in my mouth in a long time.

there are worse.

Only in America could there be food that is worse than Taco Bell.

Sandman:
McDonald's is hitty fast food, and it has its place, and is edible
when in a hurry or for other reasons. Taco Bell is a *punishment*
to the taste buds. Taco Bell was horrible goo that they surely
found lying in the back trash bin from another fast food
restaurant.

taco bell and mcdonalds are equally ****ty. the only difference is
that one is a burger and one is a taco.

McDonald's in Sweden is freaking five-star luxury restaurant to the
Taco Bell we ate at. They are not comparable in any way, shape or fashion.

Sandman:
And why did we go there? Well, me and my son had been shopping,
and he was hungry. When driving along, I recognized the logo and
thought, why not? I've seen it in movies, and it's apparently a
pretty popular place seeing how there is one in every
intersection pretty much. How bad can it be, really?

that's not how to pick good restaurants.

I wasn't trying to pick a good restaurant at the time. Why can't you read?


--
Sandman[.net]

In article , Andreas Skitsnack wrote:

Andreas Skitsnack:
Nor did I. I started a thread that contained suggestions on how
to find better restaurants when traveling.

Sandman:
And what supposed "suggestions" was there in your post? I mean,
the only thing that comes close is you saying that you had been
willing to offer recommendations, but that's hardly a general
suggestion for "finding better restaurants when travelling".

There were a number of suggestions from deciding which chain
restaurant would be a good choice for a future stop to visually
deciding on a restaurant in a small town based on the acceptance by
the locals. Also suggested was trying things like Cuban food in
Florida.

We weren't in "small towns" in our way back from the parks, you know. We
were on the 192 going to our apartment.

Sandman:
Problem for a tourist, especially a foreign tourist, is that
it's hard to know what restaurant that may or may not serve
some "local" cousine that may or may not be better than the
"average" american cousine.

That's hardly a problem faced only by the tourist in the US. It's a
problem faced by any tourist in any country other than his/her own
country.

No. It. Isn't. If you travel to Italy and pick a restaurant at random, you
will never ever be served the things we were served when doing the same in
the US. It just doesn't happen. Sure, some countries have vastly different
food cultures, so the cultural taste differs heavily, but a european
travelling in Europa will not pick bad places at random at the rate it's
done in America.

Sandman:
There is no reason it couldn't be. I mean, sure there aren't all
that many ranches close to downtown NY, perhaps, but USA has tons
of empty space. It's probably just that the large (i.e. enormous)
meat packing factories beat them on price, so that's the kind of
meat most Americans (and restaurants) have access to.

Evidently, you didn't notice the large number of restaurants in the
US. One of the first observations by many foreign visitors is about
the number of restaurant choices here compared to wherever they are
from.

The number of restaurants is irrelevant. The population of Sweden is 3% of
America. The area of Sweden is 4.7% of America. There is no doubt that
America has enough land mass to support this - even considering that a lot
of that landmass is not suitable for ranches, some in Sweden aren't either.
I don't have percentages for that, though.

Andreas Skitsnack:
But, you're "not really complaining"...just making derogatory
comparisons about things you about which don't have personal
experience.

Sandman:
I do. I have tasted Coca Cola in the states. It tastes funny.
Which is partly due to the syrup and probably partly due to the
water being a lot different as well.

Oh, so you don't drink soda but you have tried Coca Cola and found
that it "tastes...worse" than what you don't drink.

Yes. What is the problem to you? I don't drink soda doesn't mean I've never
ever tasted it in my life. It's just a general comment about what I usually
(don't) drink.

Sandman:
It's all extremes to you. I've used Yelp a sum total of perhaps
three times in my life. It was recommended to me when I was in
the states (as a last resort). The fact it led me to the wrong
place was not someting I attributed to that particular resturant
gaming the review system, but because it's a popular restaurant
*among americans*, and indeed, it was packed with your typical
stereotypical ghetto tourists.

I hope it's your unfamiliarity with English usage and not pure
racial bigotry that led you write "typical stereotypical ghetto
tourists". "Ghetto" has a very specific meaning here.

Did you have a point?

Andreas Skitsnack:
The big problem with Yelp is that if it's a good restaurant it
will naturally generate good reviews.

Sandman:
Sounds great!

Andreas Skitsnack:
If it's a bad restaurant, the owners/management want to be
included in the Yelp listings so they "salt" the reviews with
contributions from employees, friends, and family.

Sandman:
Cool, and by doing that, they surpass the geniunely good
restaurants? So... still don't have any source for this claim?

I gave you one link, and here's another where it says: "Yelp, the
online directory and consumer review site, says a quarter of the
reviews it receives could be fake, as businesses increasingly
attempt to skew consumers' opinions."

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-24299742

"Its automated review filter now "suppresses around 25%" of "suspicious"
reviews it receives"

So, these suspected fakes are still left in to skewer the recommendation in
spite of them being "suppressed"? How does this support your claim?

'"Any that are fake will be swiftly filtered out," said a spokesman.'

I.e. just like I said. I'm sure some will slip through:

"But the company admitted its system was not foolproof, and that some
filtered reviews could be genuine."

See how the end result and the headline doesn't actually, you know, match?
They get 100% reviews - out of those, Yelp "admits" that around 25% are
known fakes and they are filtered *out*, they also say that their system
isn't foolproof (no system is) so some of those 25% could be genuine
reviews, while the opposite is true - some of those 75% could be fake.

What you've yet to provide substantiattion for is your assertion that Yelp
is unreliable because the reviews are "salted" by the restaurant
themselves, using friends and relatives (people that would guess actually
*would* genuinely want to recommend the restaurant, either way).

Andreas Skitsnack:
You won't know which is which, and - evidently - followed the
recommendations that led you to "horrible" food.

Sandman:
I know. But let's test your "theory". Here's the area in which the
"horrible" restaurant was found:

,17z

You're not alowed to zoom and/or pan. That's the area we were in.
Please point out the really good restaurants in that area that a
european tourist would like, and then point out how we would have
found out about them.

On that map, I would suggest Cracker Barrel as a place where the
food is very basic, very reasonably priced for a family meal, and a
place that serves food that would be different from what the average
European would be used to. Whether or not the tourist would "like"
the food is another story. Some tourists are not at all adventurous
and want exactly what they're used to.

Not a very great endorsement. "Basic" food, huh? We're looking for really
good restaurant's here, that I supposedly "missed" because I did something
wrong.

Chick-fil-A is a "fast food" place that has better quality food than
most other fast food places. OK for lunch.

Not a very reliable recommendation. We wanted dinner.

Golden Corral is possibly one of the worst possible choices for
anyone. If you go to a Wal-Mart, and notice how many obese
Americans are there, you will find those Americans at Golden Corral
for dinner. Golden Corral is a buffet restaurant. Buffet
restaurants are seldom a good choice. The food sits too long under
heat lamps, and the salad bar items are made in the kitchen
equivalent of a concrete mixer.

See?

Ponderosa Steak House is also a bad choice if you are at all used to
decent beef. To sell at the price they do, they have to buy cheap
cuts and overly-tenderize it. You can practically taste the papaya.

So, not a good restaurant.

Because I have no occasion to ever go to that area, I can't rate
Giordano's. They may or may not serve good pizza, but unless you're
picky about pizza, it wouldn't be too bad. You may be used to a
completely different type of pizza than is served in the US.
Giordano's offers Chicago "deep-dish" style pizza, and I don't like
deep-dish so I wouldn't stop there. Beware of places that offer the
style of any dish found elsewhere. They usually don't do it well.

Correct, I dislike American pizza. And we don't want any junk food, so fast
food, pizza, burgers, all that is off the table.

Taste of China is another I can't rate. We go out for Chinese every
other week or so, and a Chinese restaurant can be anything from
"horrible" to "very good". The "no frills" note on the map
indicates to me that it may be closer to the "horrible" side of the
scale.

Now you're just listing restaurants on the map you *won't* recommend. What
happened to all the high-quality nice restaurants?

If the Knight's Inn has a restaurant attached, I'd avoid it.
Knight's Inns are dumps.

Another non-recommendation.

Maingate Lakeside Resort has Pizza Hut. Not for me if I was
starving.

See above.

I like Buffalo Wild Wings, but I'm not sure I'd recommend a wing
place to a tourist. Wings are an acquired taste.

Doesn't sound like a high-quality place, either.

IHop is not on my list of good places, but it's OK if you think
pancakes are dinner fare. It's hard to screw up a pancake or a
waffle. I hate sticky tables, though, and IHop has sticky tables.

Please, this is getting silly. We're hungry, not looking for a sugerbombed
dessert.

I don't see any other restaurants on that map. If I'm right, you
traveled with a fairly large group including children. In that
case, Cracker Barrel was your safest choice, but hardly in the
"really good" class of restaurants. It's plain fare with a touch of
Southern in the side dishes. Go for a chicken or ham dish there, or
maybe pork chops. It's not a beef or steak place. The catfish is OK
when offered.

"ok"... Also not a very great recommendation.

I would expect a "really good" restaurant to have tablecloths and a
good selection of entrees and priced far above any of the ones on
that map. Nothing like that on the map.

Then perhaps you're starting to see the problem with eating in
tourist-areas in America?

If these were your only choices for a "really good" restaurant, you
needed to expand your area of search.

No, that's the point. That was on our drive home from the park. We dont'
have the time to "search" for a restaurant at that point in time. We're
hungry, let's stop and eat some on the way. Sure, but where?

And you failed the "test" twice. First off, you were tasked to find great
restaurants in that area, and you failed - which I attribute to the fact
that there *are* no great restaurant in tourist areas in Florida.

Secondly, you were supposed to tell me *how* I was supposed to know about
this fictional great restaurant.



--
Sandman[.net]

On 2015-01-22 12:51:13 +0000, Sandman said:

In article , Tony Cooper wrote:

Sandman:
that way you do in the states. But our cattle are
fed by grazing in pastures,

Cooper:
Grass will not sustain a large herd of beef cattle. They are
fed supplemental products; grain in some parts of the country
and corn in other parts of the country. Grass-fed beef, unless
the animal is part of a very small group and is pastured in a
large area, is tough and flavorless.

Sandman:
Wow, that's the largest pile of bull**** you've posted in a long
while. I suppose it might be something an American would try to
convince himself about.

What is it you ask for? Proof? Provide it. A large herd will
over-graze a pasture.

It's hard to find English-speaking sources, seeing how Americans actually
think factory grain-fed meat is better for you. Gress-fed leads to leaner
meat, less fat, meaning that the taste comes more from the meat and less
from the fat.

You are painting your biased anti-American opinion with a broad brush.
I can't address Tony's experience as a cattle rancher or restauranteur,
but some of the finest beef available in the USA is grass fed. One of
the best sources of grass fed beef is local for me here in San Luis
Obispo County, California, and comes from the farming business of a
family you might have heard of, Hearst Ranch. Their beef supply is
seasonal, but some of the best you would be served anywhere in the
World.
http://www.hearstranch.com/grass-fed-beef/
http://www.sfgate.com/food/article/Grass-fed-beef-tops-Hearst-Ranch-business-ventures-5647624.php#photo-6630153

We

also have very good feedlot beef from another reasonably local source,
Harris Ranch. Their fresh meat and prepared meat products can be found
in many California supermarkets, and served in many California
restaurants.
http://www.harrisranchbeef.com/products/fresh_beef.html

So, please don't generalize the entire country with your Florida
tourist experience.

As I have said elsewhere in this thread, even though I live in a
relatively small community on the California Central Coast, we are at
the center of the Central Coast wine industry and being located between
L.A. & San Francisco, we have a healthy tourist industry here in San
Luis Obispo County, and my nearest town Paso Robles reflects that in
the surprisingly high number of very good restaurants to be found here.,


--
Regards,

Savageduck

In article 2015012206571897719-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom, Savageduck wrote:

Sandman:
It's hard to find English-speaking sources, seeing how Americans
actually think factory grain-fed meat is better for you. Gress-fed
leads to leaner meat, less fat, meaning that the taste comes more
from the meat and less from the fat.

You are painting your biased anti-American opinion with a broad
brush.

My apologies, I meant no offence. As you're probably aware, my "tone" is
different when speaking to the trolls and when speaking to normal people
like you.

I can't address Tony's experience as a cattle rancher or
restauranteur, but some of the finest beef available in the USA is
grass fed. One of the best sources of grass fed beef is local for
me here in San Luis Obispo County, California, and comes from the
farming business of a family you might have heard of, Hearst Ranch.
Their beef supply is seasonal, but some of the best you would be
served anywhere in the World.

Sounds awesome, and that's what grazing does. Not only does it give leaner
meat that taste more like actual meat, it also makes the cattle more
relaxed, and dare I say; happy. Which also affects the taste.

So, please don't generalize the entire country with your Florida
tourist experience.

Fair enough. My view on "Americans" is probably colored heavily by the
people you find in these areas, but my view on American *food* is based on
a broader selection than just this tourist area. And a friend of mine, that
actually went to America and did a coast-to-coast road trip over the course
of over a month, agrees with me wholeheartedly, saying that finding good
food was really really hard, and he drove all over the place, not only in
typical tourist areas (at least not akin to the Florida kind).

As I have said elsewhere in this thread, even though I live in a
relatively small community on the California Central Coast, we are
at the center of the Central Coast wine industry and being located
between L.A. & San Francisco, we have a healthy tourist industry
here in San Luis Obispo County, and my nearest town Paso Robles
reflects that in the surprisingly high number of very good
restaurants to be found here.,

Sounds great. I wonder, also, if perhaps what constitutes "great" also
differs greatly. The advice I have been given by Americans when I've been
there have not really led me to believe that they really know what "great
food" is, and would have their mind blown were they ever to come to Europe.

And I really don't want to chalk it down to only cultural differences, the
things I've objected to have been fairly objective. Like the quality of the
ingredients, the meat and the produce. Also the sheer amount of added salt,
sugar and fat that seems to be added only to hide the low-quality meat.

But, as I said before, it seems there is a "lowest common denominator"
going on there. Food is made, package and sold to appeal to the most
people, meaning that people that *do* like something above average (like,
presumably, you do), also may have a rather hard time finding it in the
common places.

One examples seems to be the school restaurants. I'm sure you've seen the
futile mission the english chef Jamie Oliver was on when trying to change
the menu on an American school (a school, where some students thought
french fries was a vegetable).




--
Sandman[.net]