Finding restaurants

On 2015-01-22 22:07:16 +0000, PeterN said:

On 1/22/2015 2:31 PM, Savageduck wrote:

snip


They were just suggestions. I can't imagine anybody taking the trouble
to travel to California and to not visit Yosemite.


Not imagination, reality.
We have had two vacations in CA. On one we stayed at the Pebble Beach Lodge,

Now that is a real destination, even if you don't play a round of golf.

and on the other with the kids we spent a lot of time in SF, visited
Muir Woods and Big Sur.

All good places to visit.

Then drove down to LA and San Diego.

I would hope you minimized your L.A. exposure.

I really would like to go to Ypsimite and the other Western Parks.

Next time.

When I went on business time was a limiting factor.

It always is.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 1/22/2015 5:59 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2015-01-22 22:07:16 +0000, PeterN said:

On 1/22/2015 2:31 PM, Savageduck wrote:

snip


They were just suggestions. I can't imagine anybody taking the trouble
to travel to California and to not visit Yosemite.


Not imagination, reality.
We have had two vacations in CA. On one we stayed at the Pebble Beach
Lodge,

Now that is a real destination, even if you don't play a round of golf.

The first time i played there I took my camera, forgot about scoring and
simply enjoyed being there. It was perfect, my wife took the car and
went shopping in Carmel.


and on the other with the kids we spent a lot of time in SF, visited
Muir Woods and Big Sur.

All good places to visit.

Yup!

Then drove down to LA and San Diego.

I would hope you minimized your L.A. exposure.


Pretty much, except for visiting a cousin.
I really would like to go to Ypsimite and the other Western Parks.

Next time.


They are on my bucket list, but with my wife in dialysis I don't know
how realistic that is.
When I went on business time was a limiting factor.

It always is.


I did get a private tour of Armond Hammer's office. That was a real
treat. Especially seeing the original DaVinci sketches.


--
PeterN

On 1/22/2015 10:04 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
On 22 Jan 2015 18:19:10 GMT, Sandman wrote:

In article , Andreas Skitsnack wrote:

Sandman:
Not a very great endorsement. "Basic" food, huh? We're looking for
really good restaurant's here, that I supposedly "missed" because
I did something wrong.

If you search in a limited area, you should go for the safest
choice. That's what I recommended.

All tourists search in a limited area, though. And you still haven't told
me how I was supposed to know this was the "safest choice".

No one, let alone me, is disagreeing that finding a good restaurant in
an unfamiliar area - especially a tourist area - is easy. No one, let
alone me, would not understand that with a car full of hungry kids
that you would stop in the first place that looked reasonably decent.

What's annoying is that you expanded on your discontent with an
overall condemnation of US food and brought in the excessive use fat,
grease, salt, sugar, bad produce, and I forget what else in US food
based on a few bad decisions on your part.

What's even more annoying is that went into that rant about how much
better things are in Sweden and you then held up Sweden as some
paragon of excellent cuisine no matter what restaurant is chosen. You
know Sweden and what to expect and what to look for. It's that home
boy arrogance that's annoying.

There were many ways to find better restaurants. You could have asked
the concierge in one of the better Disney hotels for recommendations.
You don't have to be a guest to walk up to the concierge desk. You
could have used a good guide book. Guide book authors are careful
about their recommendations because they want you to buy their book
for your next trip. You could have remained on Disney property where
you said you found acceptable food.

You could have asked me. It wouldn't make a difference that we clash
personality-wise. I wouldn't mislead a visitor to the area. I think
you're a pompous asshole, but I wouldn't deliberately inflict bad
advice on your family or those traveling with you. Had I seen that
map before you came over, I would have given the same reviews I posted
when you did provide the map.


Now you're just listing restaurants on the map you *won't*
recommend. What happened to all the high-quality nice
restaurants?

They are outside of that very limited map area, but not more than an
additional 10 or 15 minute drive. You either sacrifice a slightly
longer drive or go to the Golden Corral. I'd crawl on hot lava rather
than eat in a Golden Corral.

That's not an option.

Of course you had an option. Several. You chose what you chose out
of expediency, not necessity. You weren't contained in that small
area by a moat of alligators.

I wouldn't go down to that tacky area you were in, but I go other places.

That tacky area is on the way to the apartment, or at least on the quickest
route to the apartment. Plus, going there, how do the tourist even
determine that this is a "tacky area"? You obviously know that it's a tacky
area, but non-locals (foreigners and americans alike) have no way of
knowing this, right?

If you can't spot "tacky", you shouldn't be traveling.

You made it your problem when you claimed we did something wrong. If we had
been in Eurodisney in France and in the same circumstance, the route to the
apartment would have had plenty of good restaurants and we'd be hard
pressed to find one as bad as the ones we found.

There you go. There's your next trip. No great loss to us or to you
to not choose a US trip next time.

But you can't solve the problem then. What use is there for us if there's a
great restaurnt ten miles out of our way in the other direction?

Ten miles? That's a short drive for decent meal. This isn't
Västerås.


You reminede me of an incident in Ottowa. I saw a well dressed guy
walking out of a restaurant, and asked him if that place was any good.
He said it was, but there was one about a block away that was better. He
wrote the name down on the back of a business card and told us that the
oter place would give us a free drink if we gave the manager his card.
We had a great dinner, including the free drink. The manager/owner came
over with a big smile on his face. Turned out that the guy I spoke with
owned the restaurant he was comming out of. We learned that guy
frequently did things like that. We would have gone to the first
restaurant, but we were leaving Ottowa the next day.


--
PeterN

In article , Andreas Skitsnack wrote:

Andreas Skitsnack:
Your task is to use this map - without scrolling, panning, or
expanding the area - and find a river or large body of water.



Sandman:
I will instead use the area to find restaurants:

You failed the test miserably. I could use your map to find tacky
souvenir stands, but that was not the assignment.

You failed logic, Andreas.

What you could have done was this, point to this map:

,17z

And say that you were in that area, and it was impossible to find a
good beach.

See, I would have agreed with that. There *is* a very small beach in that
area, but it's hardly good. It's fairly new, and it's "ok", but hardly a
very good beach when compared to, you know, most beaches.

I would have told you that if you were in that area, there would be no good
beaches, unfortunately, and it could certainly be considered a weakness of
downtown Västerås.

Because, if you had done that, there would have *been* beaches in the area,
much like there *was* restaurants in the area I was in. It's not like I
posted a link to an empty tract of land in the middle of nowhere and said
there were no restaurants in the area. The area we were in was loaded with
restaurants.

And it's also a bit hilarious that the area you posted, postulating that
there were no water and/or beaches *had* both of them just a couple of
hundred meters outside the area, which makes it seem like you're implying
that a couple of hundreds meter outside the area I posted, there was a
great restaurant. What restaurant was that? I can certainly accept driving
a couple hundred meters longer, for sure.

See, that's how you make an analogy.

--
Sandman[.net]

In article , nospam wrote:

Sandman:
And, as I've said many times now, picking the "right"
restaurant is pretty hard for a foreigner with limited time
to do any research, which is my point. If you were in
downtown Västerås (where I live) and picked a restaurant at
random, you'd be sure that it has great quality food.

nospam:
not necessarily.

Sandman:
Incorrect.

proof? oh yea, there is none other than you saying so.

What would you consider proof? I mean, most reviews of downtown restaurants
would be in Swedish...

****ty restaurants exist everywhere, even where you live.

Indeed - and my point is that even the ****ty restaurants use higher
quality ingredients than the ****ty restaurants in the states.

Sandman:
That said, it's not certain that *you* may like the
food, but the ingredient quality will be top notch.

nospam:
not necessarily.

Sandman:
Incorrect.

proof? oh yea, there is none other than you saying so.

some restaurants scrimp on quality ingredients. others don't. learn
to pick the better ones.

It's actually hard to find poor-quality meat and produce that isn't fresh
in Sweden. While a really upscale restaurant use even higher grade meat,
the base standard seems to be far higher than in the states.

nospam:
i'm sure it's a wonderful place but to claim that every
restaurant is excellent is completely bull****.

Sandman:
Why can't you read? They may be terrible cooks and it may taste
like ****, but the *ingredients* are of very high quality. That's
my point. I said great *quality* food, not necessairly great
tasting food. Anyone can botch up a perfectly good piece of meat.

if it tastes like ****, who cares if the ingredients are top notch.

It's important to the point. If the meat is good and the chef is bad, then
the problem is with that particular restaurant. If the chef is good, but
the standard quality of meat is bad, then it's a problem with meat
suppliers, and affect more restaurants - i.e. exactly what I observed in
the states.

Sandman:
Yeah, but who's to blame? Me for not knowing, or for
the fact that there are way too many ****ty restaurants
around?

nospam:
you for not knowing or taking the time to pick better
restaurants.

Sandman:
Yeah, you keep claiming that, but I've yet to see you tell me what
I should have done. Remember, we're a family returning in the
evening from a Disney Park, we're driving through the orland
tourist strip and we're hungry. How do we find a great
restaurant?

i told you what you should and should not have done.

When? What did you say?

you succumbed to heavy advertising and put convenience ahead of
quality and then bitched about the lack of quality.

What supposed "advertising" did I succumb to? And yes, as a tourist on
their way home from a theme park, convenience most certainly is a factor.

it's your own damned fault.

So the fact that even a local couldn't find a good restaurant in the area
we were in is not a factor at all? It's my fault all those restaurants were
crap?

nospam:
any idiot would know that fast food such as taco bell is going
to be at best, not that great.

Sandman:
Of course, are you claiming I went there thinking it would be
great? Haha.

I went there thinking "sure, I'll try it, seems popular, and hey -
I do like taco's". What I didn't know is that the restaurant
would force-rape my tastebuds.

any idiot would have told you that it wasn't going to be
particularly good.

No idiot did. It's not like me and my son were going from the grocery store
and stopping to ask someone before pulling up to Taco Bell. Who were I
supposed to ask?

Sandman:
Oh no, don't give me that! ****ty fast food has it's
place. Taco Bell is a LOT worse than ****ty fast food. It was
the worst thing I've put in my mouth in a long time.

nospam:
there are worse.

Sandman:
Only in America could there be food that is worse than Taco Bell.

nope. there's worse food outside america too.

Where? There is no place, in my entire life, where I've been served worse
food than in Taco Bell. It's by *far* the worst food ever produced in a
"kitchen" that I've tasted.

Sandman:
McDonald's in Sweden is freaking five-star luxury restaurant to
the Taco Bell we ate at. They are not comparable in any way,
shape or fashion.

bull****. they're all fast food which puts convenience far above
quality. the only difference is that one is a taco and the other is
a burger.

Again, McDonald's in Sweden is a five-star luxury restaurant compared to
the Taco Bell we ate at.

nospam:
that's not how to pick good restaurants.

Sandman:
I wasn't trying to pick a good restaurant at the time. Why can't
you read?

then you don't get to complain that you picked a ****ty one.

I complain that it *was* ****ty, how people with actual brains can sit
there and eat that crap. It boggles the mind. I don't complain that I wound
up in Taco Bell whilst looking for a good restaurant. I was well aware of
the fact that a fast food chain would have lower quality, I had *no* idea
that the low quality would be so far off the scale.


--
Sandman[.net]

In article , nospam wrote:

Andreas Skitsnack:
Because I have no occasion to ever go to that area, I can't rate
Giordano's. They may or may not serve good pizza, but unless
you're picky about pizza, it wouldn't be too bad. You may be
used to a completely different type of pizza than is served in
the US. Giordano's offers Chicago "deep-dish" style pizza, and I
don't like deep-dish so I wouldn't stop there. Beware of places
that offer the style of any dish found elsewhere. They usually
don't do it well.

Sandman:
Correct, I dislike American pizza. And we don't want any junk
food, so fast food, pizza, burgers, all that is off the table.

if you don't want fast food, pizza and burgers, why the hell did you
go to taco bell?

We're going in circles, here. I dislike junk food, and especially the
American junk food I've tasted.

The Taco Bell incident was due to me and my son going back from buying
groceries - he said he was hungry and asked if we could stop for food.
There was a Taco Bell up ahead and I said something like "Yeah, we could
try that" thinking that it's at least a world-known brand and given the
amount of Taco Bell's littered in the area, supposedly is a popular place.

See, even if I *dislike* junk food, it's not a religious thing, I can eat
it, I can try it. Little did I know at the time that this was far worse
than any other junk food known to mankind. Had it been mere "junk food"
than I would have had no complaints, then I would have gotten exactly what
I expected. This was *far* worse.

Andreas Skitsnack:
If these were your only choices for a "really good" restaurant,
you needed to expand your area of search.

Sandman:
No, that's the point. That was on our drive home from the park. We
dont' have the time to "search" for a restaurant at that point in
time. We're hungry, let's stop and eat some on the way. Sure, but
where?

picking places you see near major tourist attractions and hotels and
on the major roads between them are generally *not* the better
places.

Of course, that's the freaking point. I've consistently said that finding
good food in America is hard - *especially* in the tourist areas.

you need to widen your search. ever heard of a phone book? the
internet?

Did you... did you really just suggest I would - on the way home from the
park - find a.... *phone book*???

And internet - that's Yelp. And it led me astray also.

And just help me out here - looking at the internet and/or in a *phone
book* - exactly *how* would that lead me to a good restaurant in this area?


--
Sandman[.net]

In article , nospam wrote:

PAS:
I find it quite eas to find good food anywhere I've been. It's
easy to find all kinds - good, bad, mediocre.

Sandman:
Agreed, except for my visits to America, where good food has been
- at least to me - hard to find. Maybe I've been unusually
unlucky, but my experience is shared with others, so I'm not
sure.

you're either unlucky or you don't know how to pick good
restaurants.

How *could* I know? The problem isn't my inability to "pick" good
restaurants, the problem is that there are way too many crap restaurants in
that area.

going to taco bell because you recognize the logo is *not* how to
choose the better places.

Again:
1. I did not go to Taco Bell expecting a "good restaurant"
2. If brand recognition is off the table - what kind of information would I
use?

Sandman:
I just want to clarify (once again) that I am fully aware of the
fact that bad food can be found anywhere on the planet. My
comparison with USA vs. Europe is based on my experience with the
quality of the ingerdients. As I've said, anyone can make a bad
meal out of the most tender meat you can find. But the problem
with most of the places in the states I've been to hasn't been
incompetent chefs, but the use of sub-standard meat and produce.
And even a good chef will have problems making good food out of
that.

the ingredients are as good or bad as anywhere else.

This is false. In the VAST majority of American restaurants I've been in in
tourist areas, the ingredients, i.e. the produce and the meat quality has
been *severely* sub-standard to a Swede.

the ****tier restaurants will probably not use the highest quality
ingredients but the better restaurants generally do.

I hope so. Problem is - where are they in that area?

Sandman:
On top of that, way too much food is loaded with sugar, salt and
grease, and my suspicion is that it's there to hide the poor
quality meat underneath.

in the ****ty restaurants, perhaps but not so much in the better
places.

I went to a upscale Chinese restaurant in Salt Lake City once, and the
Chicken Teriyaki was loaded with sugar. Perhaps it's not obvious to someone
used to it?




--
Sandman[.net]

In article , Andreas Skitsnack wrote:

Andreas Skitsnack:
My guess is that you chose the worst of all possible selections
and went to the Golden Corral based on Yelp. The minute you
walked in the door and saw all those buffet stations you should
have walked out. You should have known that this was a place for
people who want an all-you-can-eat restaurant for $10 or
whatever it is, that the food was prepared hours before and was
shoveled into those steam tables, and that the cheapest meat and
produce was purchased so people who re-fill their plates and can
eat their weight at a single meal can afford it.

Sandman:
I don't know if we we're at Golden Corral, but I know we were at
some such place.

There was only one buffet restaurant in that map. If you don't
recognize a buffet restaurant when you walk in the door, something's
wrong with you.

I never said I was in a buffet restaurant in that area. I meant that at
some point during our stay, we ate at a buffet place.

Here's the Yelp review for that place:

http://www.yelp.com/biz/golden-corral-kissimmee-4

Here's one review on the first page:

The food was okay, but some was over cooked. I asked for a piece of
mid-rare steak from the cook station and the piece I was given was
mid-well to well. Needless to say, it was dry/tough. My wife ate
some food and became sick shortly after, she returned the following
day the manager refunded her portion of the bill, which was very
nice of him.

His wife got sick on the food and he went back?

Sounds like an American

Here's a few mo

*****
Very good food! We were so hungry and this place delivered to our
appetites. So many choices you just can't go wrong. Enjoy!!!

****
Staff was friendly. Until you get to the steak guy and we'll instead of
asking what would I like he shouted TALK T O ME. LOL they had a lot of
different foods. I liked it.

*****
It's a very good choice here! Convenient, cheap, waitresses are very very
nice people, I love their service, I love the spring fountain!!!

*****
Clean and fresh. Prices are higher but The food and restaurant are again
clean and fresh. It's worth it.

That said, there are some low-rated reviews as well, the rating summary is
three stars for the restaurant, and if it's as you describe, it sounds like
a no-star or one-star place, right?

Starting to understand the problem of finding good places to eat in this
area, yet? :-D




--
Sandman[.net]

In article , Andreas Skitsnack wrote:

Sandman:
"A poster here has repeatedly whinged about not being able to find
good restaurants in the tourist corridor of the Orlando area."

While I can't say exactly what you meant by "tourist corridor",
maybe that's a specific area that local's refer to, the
"corridor" where I had the most problems was along the 192 to and
from the disney parks. That's the only "corridor" I can relate
to.

A "tourist corridor" is an area where most of the businesses are
there to serve the tourist market. In this case, that stretch of
192 is indeed a corridor. In other areas, the tourist area is all
around the attraction.

So, this is indeed the "corridor" you were in reference to when you said
this:

"A poster here has repeatedly whinged about not being able to find
good restaurants in the tourist corridor of the Orlando area."

And do you also agree that you yourself have helped me support that claim,
you yourself can not find a good restaurant in this area, right? So my
initial claim, my "whinge" and my assertion has been 100% correct. Right?

If I was in desperate need of an ashtray fashioned out of seashells,
a knock-off Disney tee shirt, a beach towel emblazoned with a
Florida scene, or some other kind of tourist tat, I'd go to the
tourist corridor. If I was a health inspector looking for
violations, I'd head for the hotels and restaurants in the tourist
corridor. Otherwise, I'd steer well-clear of the area.

So you agree with my claims then, which you've helped prove. Good we sorted
that out.


--
Sandman[.net]

In article , Andreas Skitsnack wrote:

Andreas Skitsnack:
If you search in a limited area, you should go for
the safest choice. That's what I recommended.

Sandman:
Not a very great endorsement. "Basic" food, huh?
We're looking for really good restaurant's here, that I
supposedly "missed" because I did something wrong.

No one, let alone me, is disagreeing that finding a good restaurant
in an unfamiliar area - especially a tourist area - is easy. No
one, let alone me, would not understand that with a car full of
hungry kids that you would stop in the first place that looked
reasonably decent.

There you go.

What's annoying is that you expanded on your discontent with an
overall condemnation of US food and brought in the excessive use
fat, grease, salt, sugar, bad produce, and I forget what else in US
food based on a few bad decisions on your part.

First of all - I have been very clear from the start that most food-related
problems are found in tourist heavy areas. That's what I said in my
second-to-first post on the subject.

I'll repeat the quotes I posted to nospam here. This is the very first
food-related post I ever made in this group:

"As per usual, food is awful and there's no coffee to be found
anywhere but at Starbucks, but that's just me being a European "

It most certainly was a general comment that could be taken negatively
about the entire nation, but it was accompanied with a smiley to signify
that it was made light heartedly. nospam replied and said I went to the
wrong restaurants, and my reply was this:

"It's more like; there's way too many wrong restaurants to go to."

And:

"I assume you CAN find good food in America, but being in a tourist heavy
area and pick the 20 nearest restaurants and I'll guarantee that 18 of
them are really awful, and the remaning... "ok" "

And also:

"But, as I said, there surely ARE places with good food, it's just that
it's damn hard to find if you don't know where they are. "

I clarified that the problem is with the tourist areas, I also identified
that the problem is knowing how and where any supposed good restaurants
are.

The comments about too much salt, sugar and grease is not only in the the
tourist areas, though. They are comments made based on dining on a variety
of places in the states, both tourist areas and not. I just think you - as
a nation or whatever - add too much sugar, salt and grease (i.e. you deep
fry way too much) to your food. Much like I could have said that italians
add too much vinegar to their food, or something like that. It's more a
matter of taste rather than a complain about quality (although I do think
adding these things are sometimes done to hide the poor quality meat).

What's even more annoying is that went into that rant about how much
better things are in Sweden and you then held up Sweden as some
paragon of excellent cuisine no matter what restaurant is chosen.

Ah, that's where you're wrong. I said that pick any random restaurant in my
home town (or any swedish town) and you will get great *quality* food. I
realize it could be misunderstood - but the context was the quality of the
meat/fish/produce and such, not that all food tastes really good (most do,
I might add, but that's subjective).

You know Sweden and what to expect and what to look for. It's that
home boy arrogance that's annoying.

There's no supposed "arrogance", I am comparing America to Europe, not only
Sweden. I don't know anything about a comparable town in Italy, but I know
from the times I've been there that same scenario applies - pick any
restaurant in a comparable town in Italy (even tourist areas) and you will
pretty much always get high quality food.

There were many ways to find better restaurants. You could have
asked the concierge in one of the better Disney hotels for
recommendations.

We weren't at any Disney hotels...

You don't have to be a guest to walk up to the
concierge desk.

But the hotel isn't really wall-to-wall with the park. I would have to
specifically travel to this hotel for the sole reason to ask for what
restaurants are good. While possible, it sure supports the entire "finding
good food is hard" and for a foreigner, it's rather unsual to have to do
something like this.

You could have used a good guide book.

Where do you get those?

Guide book authors are careful about their recommendations because they
want you to buy their book for your next trip. You could have remained
on Disney property where you said you found acceptable food.

That was in the parks, and required booking from the day before (at least),
not suitable for a spontenous restaurant visit. The park restaurants that
weren't those that required booking ahead did not serve good food at all.

You could have asked me.

Right, but why? I mean, I have no reason to assume you know of any good
restaurants in this particular area (and now you've shown that you don't,
so you wouldn't have been much help, supposedly), nor that what you and I
consider good food even match.

It wouldn't make a difference that we clash personality-wise. I wouldn't
mislead a visitor to the area. I think you're a pompous asshole, but I
wouldn't deliberately inflict bad advice on your family or those
traveling with you. Had I seen that map before you came over, I would
have given the same reviews I posted when you did provide the map.

Which maxed out at "ok", mind you.

Sandman:
That's not an option.

Of course you had an option. Several. You chose what you chose out
of expediency, not necessity. You weren't contained in that small
area by a moat of alligators.

No, but by time and hunger. Necessity is sometimes a real factor,
especially for a tourist.

Andreas Skitsnack:
I wouldn't go down to that tacky area you were in, but I go
other places.

Sandman:
That tacky area is on the way to the apartment, or at least on the
quickest route to the apartment. Plus, going there, how do the
tourist even determine that this is a "tacky area"? You obviously
know that it's a tacky area, but non-locals (foreigners and
americans alike) have no way of knowing this, right?

If you can't spot "tacky", you shouldn't be traveling.

So you don't know? Why can't you answer this question? For a foreigner -
what are the tell-tale signs that just couldn't be missed that this area
could not possibly contain any good restaurants?

Sandman:
You made it your problem when you claimed we did something wrong. If we
had been in Eurodisney in France and in the same circumstance, the
route to the apartment would have had plenty of good restaurants and
we'd be hard pressed to find one as bad as the ones we found.

There you go. There's your next trip. No great loss to us or to
you to not choose a US trip next time.

Never claimed it was anyone's "loss". You're taking this way too
personally.

Sandman:
But you can't solve the problem then. What use is there for us if
there's a great restaurnt ten miles out of our way in the other
direction?

Ten miles? That's a short drive for decent meal. This isn't
Västerås.

Sorry, swedish "miles" are 620% longer than your miles. A 10 mile drive
on the highway takes an hour with the metric system.




--
Sandman[.net]