I'm impressed with Canon tech support!

Someone here (I forgot who) suggested the Canon G1-X camera to me a year
ago or so. The camera is absolutely great and perfectly suits my purposes.


I rarely shoot video and that capability is not of major importance to
me...but I did note that since it formats the memory card as Fat32 there
is a 4 gig files size limit.


I did an experiment and pre-formatted the card as exFAT which has no 4
gig limit and the camera was able to use it just fine.


This morning I dashed off a email to Canon tech support mentioning that...
and just a few minutes ago got a /real/ reply!

For them to respond in a non-robotic way on a weekend was quite
impressive. I was told their Japan headquarters made the FAT32 decision
and wanted to know more about my experience with exFAT and the camera.


I thought this type of service no longer existed.

On 2014-11-29 23:36:12 +0000, philoÂ* said:

Someone here (I forgot who) suggested the Canon G1-X camera to me a
year ago or so. The camera is absolutely great and perfectly suits my
purposes.

I rarely shoot video and that capability is not of major importance to
me...but I did note that since it formats the memory card as Fat32
there is a 4 gig files size limit.

That seems odd. I have a Canon G11 which I have had as my standby
compact since 2009. I use 8 & 16GB SDHD cards formatted in the camera
and I have no such 4 GB limitation. I have just pulled the 8 GB card
from my G11 and it shows the following information:
Format: MS-DOS (FAT32)
Capacity: 8.16 GB
Available: 5.84 GB
Used: 2.32 GB
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/FileChute/screenshot_1063.jpg

I did an experiment and pre-formatted the card as exFAT which has no 4
gig limit and the camera was able to use it just fine.

I don't use my computer to format any of my memory cards CF, or SD.
They are always formatted in the appropriate camera. I have never had
an issue having the full capacity of 8 GB & 16 GB cards available to me
in my G11.

This morning I dashed off a email to Canon tech support mentioning that...
and just a few minutes ago got a /real/ reply!

For them to respond in a non-robotic way on a weekend was quite
impressive. I was told their Japan headquarters made the FAT32 decision
and wanted to know more about my experience with exFAT and the camera.

I am sure they would be interested, though I wouldn't have thought that
card formatting in other than the camera would be recommended.

I thought this type of service no longer existed.

Was that CanonUSA, or Canon in the home islands?
Regardless, individually focused customer service should always leave
you with a warm and fuzzy feeling. ;-)

--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 11/29/2014 09:46 PM, wtrplnet wrote:



snip


I am sure they would be interested, though I wouldn't have thought that
card formatting in other than the camera would be recommended.

I thought this type of service no longer existed.

Was that CanonUSA, or Canon in the home islands?
Regardless, individually focused customer service should always leave
you with a warm and fuzzy feeling. ;-)

I've used Canon repair services a few times, I'm fortunate that one of
the two Canon repair centers was near me. I can do a walk-in and talk to
them in person. Each time their service has been exemplary. Once I
dropped off an EF film camera (it was in line at the time) and had it
back the next day. More recently I dropped off an S100 point and shoot
that had the well-known lens retraction problem. That time it was in the
mail to me the next day, fully functional. Neither time was I charged
anything. I've been using Canon cameras for over forty years and am
totally satisfied.




Here is the response:


Thank you for contacting Canon product support regarding the video
feature of your PowerShot G1 X.

Please understand the decision to use FAT32 is made by our development
department in Japan. We may be able to provide more insight into the
video feature, but keep in mind the camera will not record video
continuously. Recording will automatically stop when the file size of
an individual clip being recorded reaches 4GB, or when the recording
time reaches approximately 29 minutes and 59 seconds. Once the video
stops you will have to restart the video to begin recording again. Are
you saying you can record (HD) video clips longer than 4GB and or 29
minutes after formatting the memory card using exFAT?

I've logged your suggestion into our Customer Voice Program. Canon uses
these suggestions to consider future decisions about our products and
accessories. We have also forwarded your comments to Canon USA through
our Customer Feedback process. This process allows us to capture
important feedback from our valued customers. As we constantly strive to
improve our products and services, your comments are vital to our
continued success.
If you have additional questions or concerns please don't hesitate to
contact us.

Sincerely,

Ronald

On 2014-11-30 03:54:57 +0000, philoÂ* said:

On 11/29/2014 09:46 PM, wtrplnet wrote:



snip


I am sure they would be interested, though I wouldn't have thought that
card formatting in other than the camera would be recommended.

I thought this type of service no longer existed.

Was that CanonUSA, or Canon in the home islands?
Regardless, individually focused customer service should always leave
you with a warm and fuzzy feeling. ;-)

I've used Canon repair services a few times, I'm fortunate that one of
the two Canon repair centers was near me. I can do a walk-in and talk to
them in person. Each time their service has been exemplary. Once I
dropped off an EF film camera (it was in line at the time) and had it
back the next day. More recently I dropped off an S100 point and shoot
that had the well-known lens retraction problem. That time it was in the
mail to me the next day, fully functional. Neither time was I charged
anything. I've been using Canon cameras for over forty years and am
totally satisfied.




Here is the response:


Thank you for contacting Canon product support regarding the video
feature of your PowerShot G1 X.

Please understand the decision to use FAT32 is made by our development
department in Japan. We may be able to provide more insight into the
video feature, but keep in mind the camera will not record video
continuously. Recording will automatically stop when the file size of
an individual clip being recorded reaches 4GB, or when the recording
time reaches approximately 29 minutes and 59 seconds. Once the video
stops you will have to restart the video to begin recording again. Are
you saying you can record (HD) video clips longer than 4GB and or 29
minutes after formatting the memory card using exFAT?

I've logged your suggestion into our Customer Voice Program. Canon
uses these suggestions to consider future decisions about our products
and accessories. We have also forwarded your comments to Canon USA
through our Customer Feedback process. This process allows us to
capture important feedback from our valued customers. As we constantly
strive to improve our products and services, your comments are vital to
our continued success.
If you have additional questions or concerns please don't hesitate to
contact us.

Sincerely,

Ronald

Aah! I get it the FAT(32) 4GB limit comes into play with video files,
not total memory used for CR2, or JPEGs. I am not a big video sort of
guy, so it has never been an issue for me.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

In article 2014112920540095578-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
Savageduck wrote:

On 2014-11-30 03:54:57 +0000, philoÂ* said:

On 11/29/2014 09:46 PM, wtrplnet wrote:



snip


I am sure they would be interested, though I wouldn't have thought that
card formatting in other than the camera would be recommended.

I thought this type of service no longer existed.

Was that CanonUSA, or Canon in the home islands?
Regardless, individually focused customer service should always leave
you with a warm and fuzzy feeling. ;-)

I've used Canon repair services a few times, I'm fortunate that one of
the two Canon repair centers was near me. I can do a walk-in and talk to
them in person. Each time their service has been exemplary. Once I
dropped off an EF film camera (it was in line at the time) and had it
back the next day. More recently I dropped off an S100 point and shoot
that had the well-known lens retraction problem. That time it was in the
mail to me the next day, fully functional. Neither time was I charged
anything. I've been using Canon cameras for over forty years and am
totally satisfied.




Here is the response:


Thank you for contacting Canon product support regarding the video
feature of your PowerShot G1 X.

Please understand the decision to use FAT32 is made by our development
department in Japan. We may be able to provide more insight into the
video feature, but keep in mind the camera will not record video
continuously. Recording will automatically stop when the file size of
an individual clip being recorded reaches 4GB, or when the recording
time reaches approximately 29 minutes and 59 seconds. Once the video
stops you will have to restart the video to begin recording again. Are
you saying you can record (HD) video clips longer than 4GB and or 29
minutes after formatting the memory card using exFAT?

I've logged your suggestion into our Customer Voice Program. Canon
uses these suggestions to consider future decisions about our products
and accessories. We have also forwarded your comments to Canon USA
through our Customer Feedback process. This process allows us to
capture important feedback from our valued customers. As we constantly
strive to improve our products and services, your comments are vital to
our continued success.
If you have additional questions or concerns please don't hesitate to
contact us.

Sincerely,

Ronald

Aah! I get it the FAT(32) 4GB limit comes into play with video files,
not total memory used for CR2, or JPEGs. I am not a big video sort of
guy, so it has never been an issue for me.

Is it an MPEG4/QuickTime container? That container, unfortunately, can
not support streaming. The problem is that the codec data and the index
for the data must be separated, rather interleaved as in other formats.
The low complexity workaround is to write both data and index to the
same file with a pre-determined gap between them. Even if the
filesystem supported large files, and even if 64 bit pointers were used
in the file, the pre-determined gap between index and data would
eventually run out.

Cell phones and desktop computers can use a more complicated solution of
writing two files then merging and reindexing them into a single MPEG4
after recording has finished.

This is why low power cameras supporting long recording use MPEG 2
containers. (AVCHD uses an MPEG 2 container.) MPEG 2 can also be
trivially segmented and merged without re-indexing.

--
I will not see posts from astraweb, theremailer, dizum, or google
because they host Usenet flooders.

On 11/29/2014 10:54 PM, Savageduck wrote:

snip
I've logged your suggestion into our Customer Voice Program. Canon
uses these suggestions to consider future decisions about our products
and accessories. We have also forwarded your comments to Canon USA
through our Customer Feedback process. This process allows us to
capture important feedback from our valued customers. As we constantly
strive to improve our products and services, your comments are vital
to our continued success.
If you have additional questions or concerns please don't hesitate to
contact us.

Sincerely,

Ronald

Aah! I get it the FAT(32) 4GB limit comes into play with video files,
not total memory used for CR2, or JPEGs. I am not a big video sort of
guy, so it has never been an issue for me.




Correct, Fat32 can be used on an extremely large drive, it's simply a
matter of the 4 gig file size limit. Since I am not a videographer it
has never been an issue for me either...but it would be of great value
to some people.

Amazingly I already got my second reply from Canon (yes 12:30 am on a
Sunday)


cut and pasted:



We appreciate your continued correspondence regarding the exFAT file
handling system.

I'd love to see your idea implemented (imagine a 16 exabyte file size
limit!).

Regrettably, this standard (from what I understand) has not been fully
released, yet.
Please let us know if we can be of any further assistance with Canon
cameras. Thank you for choosing Canon.




__________________


I think what they mean is that since exFAT needs to be licensed by
Microsoft...so I asked for a clarification.

Since the camera already has the ability to read exFAT, I told them all
they'd have to do is mention that in their manual and knowledgeable
users could take if from there.

On 11/30/2014 01:36 AM, Kevin McMurtrie wrote:
In article 2014112920540095578-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
Savageduck wrote:

On 2014-11-30 03:54:57 +0000, philo said:

On 11/29/2014 09:46 PM, wtrplnet wrote:



snip


I am sure they would be interested, though I wouldn't have thought that
card formatting in other than the camera would be recommended.

I thought this type of service no longer existed.

Was that CanonUSA, or Canon in the home islands?
Regardless, individually focused customer service should always leave
you with a warm and fuzzy feeling. ;-)

I've used Canon repair services a few times, I'm fortunate that one of
the two Canon repair centers was near me. I can do a walk-in and talk to
them in person. Each time their service has been exemplary. Once I
dropped off an EF film camera (it was in line at the time) and had it
back the next day. More recently I dropped off an S100 point and shoot
that had the well-known lens retraction problem. That time it was in the
mail to me the next day, fully functional. Neither time was I charged
anything. I've been using Canon cameras for over forty years and am
totally satisfied.
X
snipped for brevity


Aah! I get it the FAT(32) 4GB limit comes into play with video files,
not total memory used for CR2, or JPEGs. I am not a big video sort of
guy, so it has never been an issue for me.

Is it an MPEG4/QuickTime container? That container, unfortunately, can
not support streaming. The problem is that the codec data and the index
for the data must be separated, rather interleaved as in other formats.
The low complexity workaround is to write both data and index to the
same file with a pre-determined gap between them. Even if the
filesystem supported large files, and even if 64 bit pointers were used
in the file, the pre-determined gap between index and data would
eventually run out.



snip


The file format is .mov

Regrettably I am not a video expert but my guess would be they could do
better than a 4gig file. I suppose the only thing I can do is to test it
myself.

On 11/29/2014 6:36 PM, philo wrote:
Someone here (I forgot who) suggested the Canon G1-X camera to me a year
ago or so. The camera is absolutely great and perfectly suits my purposes.


I rarely shoot video and that capability is not of major importance to
me...but I did note that since it formats the memory card as Fat32 there
is a 4 gig files size limit.


I did an experiment and pre-formatted the card as exFAT which has no 4
gig limit and the camera was able to use it just fine.


This morning I dashed off a email to Canon tech support mentioning that...
and just a few minutes ago got a /real/ reply!

For them to respond in a non-robotic way on a weekend was quite
impressive. I was told their Japan headquarters made the FAT32 decision
and wanted to know more about my experience with exFAT and the camera.


I thought this type of service no longer existed.


Canon, like other responsible companies, recognizes that it costs money
to get a new customer. Good service is a mojot component in keeping
customers. And, less expensive to keep existing customers than getting
new ones.

--
PeterN

On 11/30/2014 08:47 AM, PeterN wrote:

snip

Canon, like other responsible companies, recognizes that it costs money
to get a new customer. Good service is a mojot component in keeping
customers. And, less expensive to keep existing customers than getting
new ones.




A refreshing surprise for me.


When I first got my job many years ago I worked for a company with that
attitude... the customer was first and if the phone rang ...we would
drop what we were doing to go help them.

Through a series of buyouts I ended up working for a company with just
the opposite philosophy and if a meeting were scheduled, we'd have to
tell our customer to wait.

I generally disregarded orders and took care of the customer anyway...
but one day, just for the heck of it I decided to follow company rules
and tell the customer I'd be a few hours late.


The "important" meeting was of course how to better take care of the
customers.

Was I ever glad to retire!

On 11/30/2014 10:15 AM, philo wrote:
On 11/30/2014 08:47 AM, PeterN wrote:

snip

Canon, like other responsible companies, recognizes that it costs money
to get a new customer. Good service is a mojot component in keeping
customers. And, less expensive to keep existing customers than getting
new ones.




A refreshing surprise for me.


When I first got my job many years ago I worked for a company with that
attitude... the customer was first and if the phone rang ...we would
drop what we were doing to go help them.

Through a series of buyouts I ended up working for a company with just
the opposite philosophy and if a meeting were scheduled, we'd have to
tell our customer to wait.

I generally disregarded orders and took care of the customer anyway...
but one day, just for the heck of it I decided to follow company rules
and tell the customer I'd be a few hours late.


The "important" meeting was of course how to better take care of the
customers.

Was I ever glad to retire!

I was browsing at L.L. Bean, in ME. I overheard a customer returning a
pair of boots that wore out after 25 years. Tey cheerfully gave him a
new pair of boots in exchange for the old ones. I later asked the
manager if he thought the customer was unreasonable. He agreed, but said
the publicity was worth more than the new boots.

Bed Bath & Beyond has a very liberal return policy, and the folks who
work there are usually friendly and helpful.

Sears used to, they discontinued that policy. (Notice they are no longer
a strong retailer.)


--
PeterN