Darkroom classes

On 6/20/14 6:24 PM, in article
2014062016242139911-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom, "Savageduck"
wrote:

On 2014-06-20 21:59:24 +0000, George Kerby said:
On 6/20/14 4:42 PM, in article , "James Silverton"
wrote:

Le Snip
Can I add a quotation from alt.quotations:

"Every old man complains of the growing depravity of the world, of the
petulance and insolence of the rising generation. He recounts the
decency and regularity of former times, and celebrates the discipline
and sobriety of the age in which his youth was passed; a happy age which
is now no more to be expected, since confusion has broken in upon the
world, and thrown down all the boundaries of civility and reverence.
-- Samuel Johnson: Rambler #50 (September 8, 1750)"

"I have become my father" is one of my favorites...

That wouldn't be too bad. My father is going to be 91 in three weeks,
he has a 76 year old lady friend. He is in good health, and he has just
updated his current OSX 10.6.8 to 10.9.3.

If I could emulate that if I reach 91.
https://db.tt/6Wjcrfz9


Handsome guy and his pretty lady. Must be the good living! :-)

On 2014-06-21 00:35:54 +0000, George Kerby said:




On 6/20/14 6:24 PM, in article
2014062016242139911-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom, "Savageduck"
wrote:

On 2014-06-20 21:59:24 +0000, George Kerby said:
On 6/20/14 4:42 PM, in article , "James Silverton"
wrote:

Le Snip
Can I add a quotation from alt.quotations:

"Every old man complains of the growing depravity of the world, of the
petulance and insolence of the rising generation. He recounts the
decency and regularity of former times, and celebrates the discipline
and sobriety of the age in which his youth was passed; a happy age which
is now no more to be expected, since confusion has broken in upon the
world, and thrown down all the boundaries of civility and reverence.
-- Samuel Johnson: Rambler #50 (September 8, 1750)"

"I have become my father" is one of my favorites...

That wouldn't be too bad. My father is going to be 91 in three weeks,
he has a 76 year old lady friend. He is in good health, and he has just
updated his current OSX 10.6.8 to 10.9.3.

If I could emulate that if I reach 91.
https://db.tt/6Wjcrfz9


Handsome guy and his pretty lady. Must be the good living! :-)

I think that giving up smoking around 1962-63 had a lot to do with it.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

On Fri, 20 Jun 2014 14:29:06 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

there is no reason to teach film photography any more than there is
teaching how to work a printing press. they are skills that are no
longer needed.

It's astonishing (but perhaps it's not) that you think there is no
longer any need to know how to work a printing press. There are still
umpteen million tons of news print being produced every year plus
heaven knows what of higher grade papers. Do you think it's all going
to be used to wrap fish and chips?

it's done with computers now. nobody manually produces newspapers
anymore. do you think they still load letters into the press?

Contrary to your statement above, it is still necessary to know how to
work a printing press, even if computers are used for the preparation
of the plates.

and newspapers and magazines are being replaced with online versions
anyway so even that is a soon to be obsolete skill.

It will be a good few years yet.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On Fri, 20 Jun 2014 14:29:11 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , George Kerby
wrote:

There was once a time where REAL photographers knew the techniques necessary
to prevent "red-eye". Now, any moron can touch a button to clean up his
sloppy snapshots.

that's a good thing, since it empowers anyone to take good photos, not
just the 'experts'.

Do you really equate 'photographs without red eye' with 'good
photographs'?
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On Fri, 20 Jun 2014 14:29:12 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote:

If people are willing to pay money to learn something then why not let them.

they can do whatever they want but they'll learn more with digital.

the problem is that the original article was about high schools and
colleges teaching obsolete skills to students who have no choice.

No it wasn't.

It was about high schools and colleges teaching classes for which
there was an enormous demand:

"Photography is actually the most popular class at Cambridge Rindge
& Latin, according to LaSalle. “There’s a maximum of 15 students per
class, and classes are always full,” he said, adding that the wait
list for classes is usually in the hundreds of students."


Doing film photography is about as useful as being able to change a wheel on
a modern car.

it's more like learning how to repair a mechanical typewriter.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

Eric Stevens wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2014 14:29:12 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote:

If people are willing to pay money to learn something then why not let them.

they can do whatever they want but they'll learn more with digital.

the problem is that the original article was about high schools and
colleges teaching obsolete skills to students who have no choice.

No it wasn't.

It was about high schools and colleges teaching classes for which
there was an enormous demand:

"Photography is actually the most popular class at Cambridge Rindge
& Latin, according to LaSalle. "There's a maximum of 15 students per
class, and classes are always full," he said, adding that the wait
list for classes is usually in the hundreds of students."

You snipped part of the text that is very significant:

"Cambridge Rindge & Latin has two black-and-white
photography labs, two digital labs, four levels of
classes, and two photo teachers. Photography is
actually the most popular class at Cambridge Rindge &
Latin, according to LaSalle. [...]"

The statement you quoted as if it were all about film
photography is actually at least equally about both
digital and film.

The article generally did not bias it in either
direction as is being done with discussion here. It is
true that some of the people quoted certainly had bias,
and at least one school used as an example was clearly
biased (requiring film photography classes before
digital classes).

Most of the schools, though not necessarily evident from
quotes of students, clearly realized that film is a
niche and digital is the mainstream (and yes it is
easier to learn virtually everything significant about
photographer when using digital tools).

The niche that film occupies today is still relatively
large, and while perhaps not necessary it is certainly a
fascinating, fun and productive approach to photography.
It's abjectly silly to claim film should not be offered
(and just a silly to say it should be required over
digital).

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

In article , George Kerby
wrote:

...and yet the B&H catalog arrives in my mailbox regularly.

they're one of the few and it's a complete waste of trees and the
postage to mail them out.

mine goes straight to the landfill. i don't even look at it.

You know, there is something that you can do about it if it bothers you that
much?

UNSUBSCRIBE!

it gets sent to anyone who recently ordered anything.

i could probably call them and tell them to stop but it's easier to
just toss it.

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

There was once a time where REAL photographers knew the techniques
necessary
to prevent "red-eye". Now, any moron can touch a button to clean up his
sloppy snapshots.

that's a good thing, since it empowers anyone to take good photos, not
just the 'experts'.

Do you really equate 'photographs without red eye' with 'good
photographs'?

not solely because there's no red eye.

but you missed the point, which is technology empowers people to be
able to do things they otherwise would not have, and that's a *very*
good thing.

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

If people are willing to pay money to learn something then why not let
them.

they can do whatever they want but they'll learn more with digital.

the problem is that the original article was about high schools and
colleges teaching obsolete skills to students who have no choice.

No it wasn't.

It was about high schools and colleges teaching classes for which
there was an enormous demand:

"Photography is actually the most popular class at Cambridge Rindge
& Latin, according to LaSalle. “There’s a maximum of 15 students per
class, and classes are always full,” he said, adding that the wait
list for classes is usually in the hundreds of students."

http://crls.cpsd.us/aboutcrls/crls_quick_facts

crl has about 1700 students, so 'hundreds of students' is roughly 10%
of the student body. that's not particularly high and i doubt it's the
'most popular'.

anyway, if you read the actual class descriptions, it's not 'only film'.

*all* of the photography classes are *both* film and digital which
means students don't have a choice in learning film. the teachers have
been doing it the same way for 20+ years which is the entire problem
right there.

http://crls.CPSD.US/media/theme/Pro-...9/media/CRLS/d
ocuments/CRLS_Course_Catalog_2013_14.pdf?rev=1
Introduction to Photography is designed to make a seamless entry into
the basics of digital and analog photography. This beginning level
course emphasizes the interdependence of the latest analog and
digital techniques. It encompasses digital capture, film and digital
processing, and printing using digital technology and enlargers to
make photographic prints.

Intermediate Photography requires that students have an introductory
knowledge of both digital and analog photographic capture taught in
Photography 1. Students will learn to edit their creative images in
Photoshop using layers, and scan their black and white film.

Advanced Photography is a course emphasizing creative, technical, and
aesthetic control in the digital and analog labs to achieve high
quality, expressive images. This course will provide an in-depth
exploration of the inter-dynamics of computer based and historical
black and white creative processes.

Portfolio Photography emphasizes independent projects using advanced
digital and analog processes. Students will use various creative
techniques in the digital and analog darkrooms in order to produce
exhibition quality prints, panoramic digital files, and archival
fiber prints in the wet lab.

nospam wrote:
In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

If people are willing to pay money to learn something then why not let
them.

they can do whatever they want but they'll learn more with digital.

the problem is that the original article was about high schools and
colleges teaching obsolete skills to students who have no choice.

No it wasn't.

It was about high schools and colleges teaching classes for which
there was an enormous demand:

"Photography is actually the most popular class at Cambridge Rindge
& Latin, according to LaSalle. "There's a maximum of 15 students per
class, and classes are always full," he said, adding that the wait
list for classes is usually in the hundreds of students."

http://crls.cpsd.us/aboutcrls/crls_quick_facts

crl has about 1700 students, so 'hundreds of students' is roughly 10%
of the student body. that's not particularly high and i doubt it's the
'most popular'.

So you, assuming that 10% is the meaning of "hundreds of
students" know more about which classes are popular than
Archy LaSalle, who has taught at the school for over 20
years.

Typical nospam logic. Backwards! Due to LaSalle's specification
that photography classes are the most popular, we can and should
assume that "hundreds of students" means a percentage significantly
greater than any 10% of the 1600+ student population.

anyway, if you read the actual class descriptions, it's not 'only film'.

*all* of the photography classes are *both* film and digital which
means students don't have a choice in learning film. the teachers have
been doing it the same way for 20+ years which is the entire problem
right there.

It clearly is a very well rounded curriculum, intended to teach
*photography* in its currently applicable *entirety*, rather than
just the part that you prefer.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)