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Fixing too much flash



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 14th 08, 11:11 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
ASAAR
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Posts: 6,057
Default Fixing too much flash

On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 17:29:54 GMT, Wes Gray wrote:

It seems like I should do something to reduce the glare of the flash.
I played around with brightness and contrast, and was having a hard time
telling if I was making things better or worse. If this was your photo,
what would you do with it?


While you might be able to handle the glare in PP, it's much
better to avoid creating the problem from the start. Learning how
to get better lighting will not only minimize or eliminate the
glare, it will also eliminate most of the harsh shadows, which some
might consider to be worse than the glare. Cute pic, though.

  #2  
Old December 15th 08, 01:48 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Tony Cooper
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Posts: 4,748
Default Fixing too much flash

On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 17:11:15 -0500, ASAAR wrote:

On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 17:29:54 GMT, Wes Gray wrote:

It seems like I should do something to reduce the glare of the flash.
I played around with brightness and contrast, and was having a hard time
telling if I was making things better or worse. If this was your photo,
what would you do with it?


While you might be able to handle the glare in PP, it's much
better to avoid creating the problem from the start. Learning how
to get better lighting will not only minimize or eliminate the
glare, it will also eliminate most of the harsh shadows, which some
might consider to be worse than the glare. Cute pic, though.


Why not reply with a post that is actually informative and helpful?

If you feel the lighting is not good, then explain how the lighting
could have been done better. Soft box? Diffuser over the flash?
Bounce light? Some external lights so the rear of the image is
illuminated? If you know what you're talking about, talk about it.

In the meantime, the poster has an image that he likes but the image
has something about it that he feels can be improved. Can you offer a
suggestion about how to go about it? You've mentioned "PP", which I
guess is Paintshop Pro. The OP didn't mention having it, but if
you're an expert with PP, then offer a method of correction.







--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
  #3  
Old December 15th 08, 04:50 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
ASAAR
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,057
Default Fixing too much flash

On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 19:48:14 -0500, tony cooper wrote:

While you might be able to handle the glare in PP, it's much
better to avoid creating the problem from the start. Learning how
to get better lighting will not only minimize or eliminate the
glare, it will also eliminate most of the harsh shadows, which some
might consider to be worse than the glare. Cute pic, though.


Why not reply with a post that is actually informative and helpful?

If you feel the lighting is not good, then explain how the lighting
could have been done better. Soft box? Diffuser over the flash?
Bounce light? Some external lights so the rear of the image is
illuminated? If you know what you're talking about, talk about it.

In the meantime, the poster has an image that he likes but the image
has something about it that he feels can be improved. Can you offer a
suggestion about how to go about it? You've mentioned "PP", which I
guess is Paintshop Pro. The OP didn't mention having it, but if
you're an expert with PP, then offer a method of correction.


Most people define PP as post processing, some as post production.
Your assumptions are misguided and inaccurate. Why do you think
that I'm an expert in PP if you don't even know what it refers to?
The fact is that I don't do any PP (yet), and almost all of the
correcting I've done to date is with the simplistic IrfanView which
nice as it is, is definitely not a decent PP tool, and I don't own
Paintshop Pro, LightRoom or Photoshop.

As you are familiar with lighting equipment and I assume you that
have some knowledge of lighting techniques I'll let you (or others)
talk about it if you wish. But I wouldn't recommend doing so until
the OP shows some interest and a willingness to expend the necessary
time, effort and money. I thought it was helpful to try to point
him in a better direction for future images even though you didn't
see the value in that. It wasn't so much for the OP's benefit as it
was to try to encourage all of those trying to help the OP to get
off the same misguided (in my opinion) track, and allow those
familiar with, or expert in PP to offer the guidance that I can't.
When the topic or field is something I'm familiar with I usually go
out of my way to offer assistance, as some of my recent posts show.

I know a little about lighting but there are others here that know
far more about both the topic and the equipment. If the OP is
ambitious enough to take the initiative there are many good books on
lighting and several websites that offer guidance or tutorials.
http://luminous-landscape.com/ is one that has columns, essays,
tutorials and techniques. http://www.strobist.blogspot.com/ is
another, and while it's oriented towards Nikon's gear, much of its
content is applicable to any brand's lighting equipment. But it
might be a bit advanced for a neophyte unfamiliar with terms such as
snoots, beauty dishes, grids and gobos. That shouldn't stop anyone
with a real desire to learn and who is willing to use google.

"Mastering Digital Flash Photography" (by Chris George, Lark
Books) does a good job covering the basics of lighting, equipment
and techniques for beginners, but more specialized or comprehensive
books might be needed for those that get *really* interested in
mastering lighting. Another resource is DPReview's Lighting
Technique forum. There's probably a forum that specializes in
questions pertaining to the OP's camera brand/model, and they're
frequently used to answer questions similar to the OP's.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/forum.asp?forum=1025

  #4  
Old December 15th 08, 05:31 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Tony Cooper
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,748
Default Fixing too much flash

On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 22:50:30 -0500, ASAAR wrote:

On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 19:48:14 -0500, tony cooper wrote:

While you might be able to handle the glare in PP, it's much
better to avoid creating the problem from the start. Learning how
to get better lighting will not only minimize or eliminate the
glare, it will also eliminate most of the harsh shadows, which some
might consider to be worse than the glare. Cute pic, though.


Why not reply with a post that is actually informative and helpful?

If you feel the lighting is not good, then explain how the lighting
could have been done better. Soft box? Diffuser over the flash?
Bounce light? Some external lights so the rear of the image is
illuminated? If you know what you're talking about, talk about it.

In the meantime, the poster has an image that he likes but the image
has something about it that he feels can be improved. Can you offer a
suggestion about how to go about it? You've mentioned "PP", which I
guess is Paintshop Pro. The OP didn't mention having it, but if
you're an expert with PP, then offer a method of correction.


Most people define PP as post processing, some as post production.


Haven't seen that abbreviation in any of the groups before. Perhaps
it's just a term that I haven't noticed being used. Since you
capitalized it, I assumed it was a product name. While it may be
used, I don't think it's a term "most people" use.

Your assumptions are misguided and inaccurate. Why do you think
that I'm an expert in PP if you don't even know what it refers to?
The fact is that I don't do any PP (yet), and almost all of the
correcting I've done to date is with the simplistic IrfanView which
nice as it is, is definitely not a decent PP tool, and I don't own
Paintshop Pro, LightRoom or Photoshop.

As you are familiar with lighting equipment and I assume you that
have some knowledge of lighting techniques I'll let you (or others)
talk about it if you wish. But I wouldn't recommend doing so until
the OP shows some interest and a willingness to expend the necessary
time, effort and money.


What do you want from him? He came in, he said he thought the glare
wasn't right, and he asked for suggestions. Pretty straight-forward.
The interest and the willingness is demonstrated by the question.

I thought it was helpful to try to point
him in a better direction for future images even though you didn't
see the value in that.


You didn't offer value. Value is saying that you think the shadows
are too harsh, and harsh shadows can be minimized by (fill in the
technique you think would work).

I know a little about lighting but there are others here that know
far more about both the topic and the equipment. If the OP is
ambitious enough to take the initiative there are many good books on
lighting and several websites that offer guidance or tutorials.
http://luminous-landscape.com/ is one that has columns, essays,
tutorials and techniques. http://www.strobist.blogspot.com/ is
another, and while it's oriented towards Nikon's gear, much of its
content is applicable to any brand's lighting equipment. But it
might be a bit advanced for a neophyte unfamiliar with terms such as
snoots, beauty dishes, grids and gobos. That shouldn't stop anyone
with a real desire to learn and who is willing to use google.

"Mastering Digital Flash Photography" (by Chris George, Lark
Books) does a good job covering the basics of lighting, equipment
and techniques for beginners, but more specialized or comprehensive
books might be needed for those that get *really* interested in
mastering lighting. Another resource is DPReview's Lighting
Technique forum. There's probably a forum that specializes in
questions pertaining to the OP's camera brand/model, and they're
frequently used to answer questions similar to the OP's.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/forum.asp?forum=1025


While this isn't the issue here, I don't see how lighting techniques
are camera-specific. As far as I know, you light a scene - a
table-top in this case - the same for any brand or model of camera
that you use provided you have some minimal control over aperture,
speed, and flash. Similar cameras, anyway.


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
  #5  
Old December 15th 08, 07:15 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
ASAAR
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,057
Default Fixing too much flash

On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 23:31:52 -0500, tony cooper wrote:

You didn't offer value. Value is saying that you think the shadows
are too harsh, and harsh shadows can be minimized by (fill in the
technique you think would work).


I may have misjudged you. Either you're having a really bad day
your you're exceedingly dense.

  #6  
Old December 15th 08, 08:24 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Tony Cooper
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,748
Default Fixing too much flash

On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 01:15:20 -0500, ASAAR wrote:

On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 23:31:52 -0500, tony cooper wrote:

You didn't offer value. Value is saying that you think the shadows
are too harsh, and harsh shadows can be minimized by (fill in the
technique you think would work).


I may have misjudged you. Either you're having a really bad day
your you're exceedingly dense.


I'm trying to explain that being critical of someone's effort is of no
value that person unless you offer some suggestion of how to go about
correcting what you see as bad technique or pointing out where and how
they went wrong. If you know enough about technique to criticize
someone else's, then you should know enough to offer some suggestions
that can be used in future.

The OP didn't ask about the lighting in general, but if you thought it
was so bad that it detracted from the image, then follow-up your
criticism with something he can use. That adds value.


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
  #7  
Old December 15th 08, 02:09 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Charles Blackwell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Fixing too much flash

On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 22:50:30 -0500, ASAAR wrote:

On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 19:48:14 -0500, tony cooper wrote:

While you might be able to handle the glare in PP, it's much
better to avoid creating the problem from the start. Learning how
to get better lighting will not only minimize or eliminate the
glare, it will also eliminate most of the harsh shadows, which some
might consider to be worse than the glare. Cute pic, though.


Why not reply with a post that is actually informative and helpful?

If you feel the lighting is not good, then explain how the lighting
could have been done better. Soft box? Diffuser over the flash?
Bounce light? Some external lights so the rear of the image is
illuminated? If you know what you're talking about, talk about it.

In the meantime, the poster has an image that he likes but the image
has something about it that he feels can be improved. Can you offer a
suggestion about how to go about it? You've mentioned "PP", which I
guess is Paintshop Pro. The OP didn't mention having it, but if
you're an expert with PP, then offer a method of correction.


Most people define PP as post processing, some as post production.
Your assumptions are misguided and inaccurate. Why do you think
that I'm an expert in PP if you don't even know what it refers to?
The fact is that I don't do any PP (yet), and almost all of the
correcting I've done to date is with the simplistic IrfanView which
nice as it is, is definitely not a decent PP tool, and I don't own
Paintshop Pro, LightRoom or Photoshop.


Translation: He openly admits he's nothing but a pretend-photographer
resident-troll.


As you are familiar with lighting equipment and I assume you that
have some knowledge of lighting techniques I'll let you (or others)
talk about it if you wish. But I wouldn't recommend doing so until
the OP shows some interest and a willingness to expend the necessary
time, effort and money.


Translation: As a net-parroting resident-troll he dictates what people should
advise for others even though he doesn't know a thing about the topics being
discussed--ever.

I thought it was helpful to try to point
him in a better direction for future images even though you didn't
see the value in that. It wasn't so much for the OP's benefit as it
was to try to encourage all of those trying to help the OP to get
off the same misguided (in my opinion) track, and allow those
familiar with, or expert in PP to offer the guidance that I can't.
When the topic or field is something I'm familiar with I usually go
out of my way to offer assistance, as some of my recent posts show.


Translation: As a pretend-photographer, net-parroting, resident-troll he must
butt his nose into everything he can to try to get attention for himself. While
trying again to see if he can fool others with acting as if he actually knows
something about cameras and photography.


I know a little about lighting


Translation: He knows how to turn on his basement night-light by clapping his
hands two times, with assist from the present his mommy bought for him from
Walgreens a few winters ago so he won't wet his bed in the corner of the
basement anymore.

but there are others here that know
far more about both the topic and the equipment. If the OP is
ambitious enough to take the initiative there are many good books on
lighting and several websites that offer guidance or tutorials.
http://luminous-landscape.com/ is one that has columns, essays,
tutorials and techniques. http://www.strobist.blogspot.com/ is
another, and while it's oriented towards Nikon's gear, much of its
content is applicable to any brand's lighting equipment. But it
might be a bit advanced for a neophyte unfamiliar with terms such as
snoots, beauty dishes, grids and gobos.


Translation: Look what he found during an Amazon.com search online and read in
the review on the book.

That shouldn't stop anyone
with a real desire to learn and who is willing to use google.

"Mastering Digital Flash Photography" (by Chris George, Lark
Books) does a good job covering the basics of lighting, equipment
and techniques for beginners, but more specialized or comprehensive
books might be needed for those that get *really* interested in
mastering lighting. Another resource is DPReview's Lighting
Technique forum. There's probably a forum that specializes in
questions pertaining to the OP's camera brand/model, and they're
frequently used to answer questions similar to the OP's.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/forum.asp?forum=1025


Translation: Here's another forum where he acts as nothing but another
pretend-photographer, net-parroting, resident-troll.

  #8  
Old December 15th 08, 03:00 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
ASAAR
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,057
Default Fixing too much flash

On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 02:24:01 -0500, tony cooper wrote:

I may have misjudged you. Either you're having a really bad day
your you're exceedingly dense.


I'm trying to explain that being critical of someone's effort is of no
value that person unless you offer some suggestion of how to go about
correcting what you see as bad technique or pointing out where and how
they went wrong. If you know enough about technique to criticize
someone else's, then you should know enough to offer some suggestions
that can be used in future.


You've still got it wrong. Several things, actually. I was *not*
critical of the OP's effort. For the pictures he's already taken
the only way to improve perceived defects is to use photo editing
tools (PP), and the suggestions others have been providing can be
helpful. I wasn't saying "No, don't do that!". I was trying to
make him aware that making better use of light *in the future* could
greatly reduce the amount of PP that he'd have to waste time on.

The other thing you *still* don't seem to understand is that my
suggestion to use lighting more effectively somehow translates into
my being a PP "expert" (which I've already denied being) and it's
therefore my responsibility to show him how to use PP to fix his
images. Do you think that it's out of bounds for people that aren't
qualified to be tutors for one technique to suggest alternatives? I
hope not. If you agree, try re-reading the last sentence in the
quote above and you might now see what I'm talking about.


The OP didn't ask about the lighting in general, but if you thought it
was so bad that it detracted from the image, then follow-up your
criticism with something he can use. That adds value.


I did but for some reason you were unwilling or unable to see
them. You even quoted several of the suggestions I offered in one
of your previous replies. If you think that they were of no value
please explain why, and perhaps offer some of your own.

  #9  
Old December 15th 08, 03:06 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
ASAAR
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,057
Default Fixing too much flash

On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 07:09:27 -0600, Charles Blackwell wrote:

Translation: Here's another forum where he acts as nothing but
another pretend-photographer, net-parroting, resident-troll.


Dear Charlie, one can forgive you for pretending to be a brain
challenged sock puppet troll, but for some time your choice of words
makes it appear that you're channeling Rita/Larry. That's one of
the hazards of sniffing the thong too long.

 




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