Fill light question

On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 12:13:19 -0500, Alan Browne
wrote:

You're on track. For what you're suggesting, a harder surface (that loses less
light) would be better (akin to what McLeod mentions about a studio he knows).
In my "studio" (aka upstairs living room bereft of furniture) I don't have a
wall that I can use as a reflector (eg: 1 'wall' is the windows, 1 wall is
bookcases, and mirror), so I'd have to put up a backdrop or reflctors.

I could set reflector boards (say 4' on a side) either side of me for the fills
but that's a lot of my strobe power being used for fill light. Gotta buy more
monolights. A fellow near here has an ancient pack/lights for sale, I'll have
to take another look at it.

Cheers,
Alan

Again, don't discount using a re3flector as fill, the idea of using a
light as fill is "old school". It may free up your other light to use
as a hair or background light.
I know another guy named J. Micheal McBride who travels and gives
portraiture seminars who only shoots with windowlight and a reflector.
He does beautiful work. Check out his site.

McLeod wrote:

On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 09:18:39 -0500, Alan Browne
wrote:


It's that last bit that has me curious. If the fill is as close to the
lens axis as we can manage, then there is little need for it to be a soft
source. That's what I'm getting at...

The reason I ask is that I find the placement of my fill light in a softbox
to be awkward. To get it over the camera and on to the subject it has to
be relatively high and hence away from the lens axis. W/o the softbox I
can get it lower and no shaddows appear that way either.

Cheers, Alan


As close as practical. If you use a small specular source close to the
lens-subject axis you have to also keep in mind the physical properties of
light-"the angle of incidence=the angle of reflection". The more specular a
light source, the more it reflects, and the closer to the lens-subject axis
the more likely it is to reflect even on something like skin, in a very
unattractive way.

Excellent point, and very much undesired effect.

You may not even notice unless you are looking for it but the edge of every
greasy pore could pick up specular highlights. Test, see what you prefer, a
soft light or a smaller light, but be sure to look at the images closely. I
usually use a 5 ft umbrella for fill and if my camera and body are


slightly blocking the umbrella the only place it's noticeable is in the eye
reflection, which I usually retouch anyway.

Probably for fill I should get a larger umbrella rather than use the softbox.
My umbrellas are 36-42". My head/camera can block the lower part without much
effect on the fill...

Another way is to
buy a boom stand so you can place it anywhere you want.

I had a chance to buy a used Manfrotto boom a year or so ago... I passed it up
(even used it wasn't cheap at all).

Thanks again. Cheers,
Alan.

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Alan Browne wrote:

Lisa Horton wrote:


Alan Browne wrote:

Let's say I have a simple three light portrait setup, fill, key and background.
A soft lighting is desired so the key light is in a softbox (or 'brella).

Is it neccesary to use a softbox/umbrella for the fill light?

(Let's say the fill is at least 1 stop down from the key).

I'm assuming that it isn't, as the key will cast the soft shaddows, but I'd like
to hear other opinions.



Sure, a bare light is fine for fill, as long as you're reflecting it off
of a large, or preferably huge, reflector, as McLeod mentioned. Or
shooting through a large sheet of translucent material, like ripstop
nylon, which actually can be a relatively inexpensive yet very effective
way to deal with fill.

See my other reply. To set a softbox (or 'brella) as fill, I have to have it
high above the camera ... away from the lens axis. This will cast a (very
minor) shaddow under chins.

I could try putting the fill, in the softbox, below the camera, I suppose.

Some time ago (a couple years) I spread a white sheet behind me with two strobes
lighting it up and one key light on the camera side. This took a lot of room
(and both of my smallish studio strobes). I used a minolta flash as key. It
all worked fine (as light) but just took so much room that I couldn't get a good
background separation or use my 100mm lens. (Had to use the 28-70 near the long
end).


Try approaching it this way: for fill, you want a soft and VERY broad
light source. The very antithesis of a single light with a reflector.
Bed sheets make poor reflectors and poor shoot through material. They
are denser and less reflective than desirable, and may not be quite
exactly white. OTOH, a large sheet of foamcore is exactly white, a
pretty good size for a fill light, and is fairly reflective. Almost too
reflective, as it can produce hot spots because of it's reflectivity.
This is why I prefer to paint the foamcore with flat white spray paint.
Not a lot, just enough to take off most of the gloss. A 1/4x20 wing
nut, a couple of wide washers, and a spare tripod make it a complete and
adjustable reflector.

Also, if you skip the wing nut and do a good smooth job with the white
spray paint, this will double as an excellent slide projection screen.
Not as bright as glass beaded or lenticular, but sharper and more
detailed than either.

Or, you could get a sheet of white ripstop nylon and some PVC plumbing
parts and make a free standing shoot through that can also be used as a
reflector.

Your space constraints are nothing more than an impetus to think
creatively. You actually want your fill light to be close to the
subject, which works in your context.

Lisa

Alan Browne wrote:



Oh, you have no idea of all the things I've tried. This latest question just
poked up as I was thinking about my 'current' portrait setup and the high
placement of my fill light.


In photography, there's pretty much always a way. You just have to find
it.

Lisa

I've had a whole slew of problems trying to control shadows on location
shoots in dark rooms. Most of these have no good surfaces for
reflecting light, so I've resorted to multiple wireless flash. However,
in your case, it would seem that if you put a reflector below the
model, it would fill in the minor shadows created by having the fill
light so high. You'd have to experiment to get the right light balance
while not having it block the shot, but then that's where all the fun
is.

On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 13:05:05 -0800, Lisa Horton
wrote:
OTOH, a large sheet of foamcore is exactly white, a
pretty good size for a fill light, and is fairly reflective. Almost too
reflective, as it can produce hot spots because of it's reflectivity.
This is why I prefer to paint the foamcore with flat white spray paint.
Not a lot, just enough to take off most of the gloss.

I've tried wrapping a board with gold mylar in the past, (for outside
use at sunset) but it was far too shiny for the effect I wanted and
somewhat clumsy to handle. It gave a watery-like 'spotty' reflection,
especially if hit with a flash. So just before Christmas I made a gold
reflector by spraying a foamcore board matte gold.

Note to anyone wanting to lay any significant amount of paint onto a
foamcore board:

You have to paint *both sides* with a similar quantity of paint
otherwise it becomes a concave reflector when the paint dries.

Me: I am now a proud owner of a gold concave reflector, some crumpled
gold mylar and a pair of gold-tipped sneakers.

--
Owamanga!

HeHeHeHeHe ... been there ... the surface tension of the paint does that.

Use a gold-tone foil and glue it to the foamcore, works much better.





"Owamanga" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 13:05:05 -0800, Lisa Horton
wrote:
OTOH, a large sheet of foamcore is exactly white, a
pretty good size for a fill light, and is fairly reflective. Almost too
reflective, as it can produce hot spots because of it's reflectivity.
This is why I prefer to paint the foamcore with flat white spray paint.
Not a lot, just enough to take off most of the gloss.

I've tried wrapping a board with gold mylar in the past, (for outside
use at sunset) but it was far too shiny for the effect I wanted and
somewhat clumsy to handle. It gave a watery-like 'spotty' reflection,
especially if hit with a flash. So just before Christmas I made a gold
reflector by spraying a foamcore board matte gold.

Note to anyone wanting to lay any significant amount of paint onto a
foamcore board:

You have to paint *both sides* with a similar quantity of paint
otherwise it becomes a concave reflector when the paint dries.

Me: I am now a proud owner of a gold concave reflector, some crumpled
gold mylar and a pair of gold-tipped sneakers.

--
Owamanga!