Sludge in Paper Developer

I mixed a package of Orwo paper developer a couple of week ago and
used it with success. Today, I tried it again, but while pouring it
out, I noticed a light gray sludge. On closer inspection, it looks
like shiny metal particles. What could this be, and can I still use
it?

Now that this happened, I noticed one mistake I made. The mixing
instructions ask for 30-40degC water, but I mixed it at 20degC. Could
that have something to do with it?

Achim

That is undissolved developer powder... Heat the bottle to 40 C and gently
swirl don't agitate or splash until the sludge dissolves...
denny
"Achim Buchholz" wrote in message
om...
I mixed a package of Orwo paper developer a couple of week ago and
used it with success. Today, I tried it again, but while pouring it
out, I noticed a light gray sludge. On closer inspection, it looks
like shiny metal particles. What could this be, and can I still use
it?

Now that this happened, I noticed one mistake I made. The mixing
instructions ask for 30-40degC water, but I mixed it at 20degC. Could
that have something to do with it?

Achim

In article ,
says...
I mixed a package of Orwo paper developer a couple of week ago and
used it with success. Today, I tried it again, but while pouring it
out, I noticed a light gray sludge. On closer inspection, it looks
like shiny metal particles. What could this be, and can I still use
it?

Now that this happened, I noticed one mistake I made. The mixing
instructions ask for 30-40degC water, but I mixed it at 20degC. Could
that have something to do with it?

Achim

Most paper developers are mixed as a concentrate and then diluted for
use. The diluted solution has a useful life of about 8 to 12 hours and
then should be discarded.
You are seeing oxidized developer and perhaps some metallic silver. You
might try to filter the developer with a paper coffee filter, but you
will get best results from a new solution.

--
Robert D Feinman

Landscapes, Cityscapes, Panoramas and Photoshop Tips
http://robertdfeinman.com

"Achim Buchholz" wrote in message
om...
I mixed a package of Orwo paper developer a couple of week
ago and
used it with success. Today, I tried it again, but while
pouring it
out, I noticed a light gray sludge. On closer inspection,
it looks
like shiny metal particles. What could this be, and can I
still use
it?

Now that this happened, I noticed one mistake I made. The
mixing
instructions ask for 30-40degC water, but I mixed it at
20degC. Could
that have something to do with it?

Achim

Are you asking about the stock developer or is this
diluted and used developer?


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

"Richard Knoppow" schrieb:

I mixed a package of Orwo paper developer a couple of week ago and
used it with success.

Are you asking about the stock developer or is this
diluted and used developer?

Since he is talking about Orwo developer and the fact that Orwo´s
chemical department is called Calbe for more than ten years by now, I
suppose he used up old stock of N113, a powder pack virtually lasting
forever even when mixed. It used to be the top-selling paper developer
made by Orwo in Calbe and some are still selling, buying and using 15
year old packs with no trouble at all.

N113 is mixed with water and used in stock quantity - you don´t
dillute it.

It sounds like metallic silver, I experienced it with several
developers by myself (N113, Neutol Plus, Amaloco 2002). I mixed my
first and latest batch of 10liters of fresh Calbe N113 in May 2003, it
took a slight yellow tint in it´s bottle and it is still going strong.
:-)

Great and cheap! stuff, nice reaction with MG4 and Forte Polygrade..

Gruss, Roman

Roman J. Rohleder wrote


Since he is talking about Orwo developer and the fact that Orwo´s
chemical department is called Calbe for more than ten years by now, I
suppose he used up old stock of N113, a powder pack virtually lasting
forever even when mixed. It used to be the top-selling paper developer
made by Orwo in Calbe and some are still selling, buying and using 15
year old packs with no trouble at all.

It sounds like metallic silver, I experienced it with several
developers by myself (N113, Neutol Plus, Amaloco 2002). I mixed my
first and latest batch of 10liters of fresh Calbe N113 in May 2003, it
took a slight yellow tint in it´s bottle and it is still going strong.

I've seen ORWO N113 listed as a safelight and a developer. Labor &
Dunkelkammer list the developer.
If that is silver it must have migrated from the emulsion into the
developer and likely prior to reduction. I don't think that possible.
I can't imagine it would be a good thing. Think of the image being
leached, before or after reduction, into the developer.
BTW, I've mentioned a few times the total USA abandonment of graded
paper production. Can you recommend any one, two, or three European
sources which make a practice of shipping to the States? Dan

(Dan Quinn) schrieb:

I've seen ORWO N113 listed as a safelight and a developer. Labor &
Dunkelkammer list the developer.

It is a developer.

If that is silver it must have migrated from the emulsion into the
developer and likely prior to reduction. I don't think that possible.

It happened to me... so, it seems to be possible. ;-)
I experienced this with all developers I tried but Ilford Multigrade,
with many papers, ranging from MG4, Polygrade5 and Orwo graded fb
paper. Developing time is not an issue with this, it just happens.

I can't imagine it would be a good thing. Think of the image being
leached, before or after reduction, into the developer.

I never noticed any degration or "fading" on any of the images.

BTW, I've mentioned a few times the total USA abandonment of graded
paper production. Can you recommend any one, two, or three European
sources which make a practice of shipping to the States? Dan

Mmmh. I can give you the links to some shops I know... some of them
still list and sell various kinds of graded paper, others have
abandoned it. there isn´t that much more left to choose from.

I know a few shops who just got rid of their last boxes of Tetenal
graded papers.

Robert is in the Netherlands, but at least he ships to Germany. Maybe
the US, too. Ask him.

http://www.fotohuisrovo.nl/eng/frame.html

He is selling papers by Foma, Maco and Amaloco (rebadged Ilford,
Efke). Fomaspeed and Fomabrom are graded kinds.

Fomabrom and Fomaspeed are available as well from Fotoimpex, Berlin.
Mirko recently (03-2003) got involved with "Jay and C", they might be
able to sell it via their shop in Kansas. If not, Mirko asks a flat
rate of 15EUR to cover the shipping costs.

www.fotoimpex.de
www.fotoimpex.us
http://www.jandcphotography.com/

Last time I checked their website, Tura of Dueren manufactured still
graded paper - they cut premanufactured stuff, bought in bulk
presumedly from Agfa.

http://www.tura-film.de/en/0220.html

Ask them wether they got something left ove
r.
Some guys still sell rolls of Orwo paper, manufactured in the late
1980s. I am using up some dozen packs of 7x10cm Orwo FB for 6x9cm
contacts, very nice paper. I wish I would have that in bigger sizes.

Hope this helps!

Gruss, Roman

Roman J. Rohleder wrote

Dan Quinn schrieb:

If that is silver it must have migrated from the emulsion into
the developer and likely prior to reduction. I don't think
that possible.

It happened to me... so, it seems to be possible. ;-)
I experienced this with all developers I tried but...

Well it's the first time I ever heard of that. Perhaps it's
more common than thought; film and paper. I could'nt be due to
the water, could it? Developers are alkaline and can precipitate
metalic salts. Dan

Let me add http://www.silverprint.co.uk/
Richard

"Roman J. Rohleder" wrote in message
news
(Dan Quinn) schrieb:

I've seen ORWO N113 listed as a safelight and a developer. Labor &
Dunkelkammer list the developer.

It is a developer.

If that is silver it must have migrated from the emulsion into the
developer and likely prior to reduction. I don't think that possible.

It happened to me... so, it seems to be possible. ;-)
I experienced this with all developers I tried but Ilford Multigrade,
with many papers, ranging from MG4, Polygrade5 and Orwo graded fb
paper. Developing time is not an issue with this, it just happens.

I can't imagine it would be a good thing. Think of the image being
leached, before or after reduction, into the developer.

I never noticed any degration or "fading" on any of the images.

BTW, I've mentioned a few times the total USA abandonment of graded
paper production. Can you recommend any one, two, or three European
sources which make a practice of shipping to the States? Dan

Mmmh. I can give you the links to some shops I know... some of them
still list and sell various kinds of graded paper, others have
abandoned it. there isn´t that much more left to choose from.

I know a few shops who just got rid of their last boxes of Tetenal
graded papers.

Robert is in the Netherlands, but at least he ships to Germany. Maybe
the US, too. Ask him.

http://www.fotohuisrovo.nl/eng/frame.html

He is selling papers by Foma, Maco and Amaloco (rebadged Ilford,
Efke). Fomaspeed and Fomabrom are graded kinds.

Fomabrom and Fomaspeed are available as well from Fotoimpex, Berlin.
Mirko recently (03-2003) got involved with "Jay and C", they might be
able to sell it via their shop in Kansas. If not, Mirko asks a flat
rate of 15EUR to cover the shipping costs.

www.fotoimpex.de
www.fotoimpex.us
http://www.jandcphotography.com/

Last time I checked their website, Tura of Dueren manufactured still
graded paper - they cut premanufactured stuff, bought in bulk
presumedly from Agfa.

http://www.tura-film.de/en/0220.html

Ask them wether they got something left ove
r.
Some guys still sell rolls of Orwo paper, manufactured in the late
1980s. I am using up some dozen packs of 7x10cm Orwo FB for 6x9cm
contacts, very nice paper. I wish I would have that in bigger sizes.

Hope this helps!

Gruss, Roman