Tech Support?

On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 14:30:30 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

the mere fact that the ipad shows up in the usb device tree is
proof
(and i doubt you know what that means).

Of course Peter wouldn't know what that means. He doesn't use a Mac
&
he doesn't own an iPad.

one does not need to own a mac or an ipad to understand how usb works.

he doesn't know what it means because he's non-technical and won't
admit when he's in over his head.

This might help;
https://db.tt/Nb6dRzVh

it might.

It doesn't help Peter when he's up against someone who is prepared to
bull**** their way through an argument.

i'm not bull****ting anything.

Nospam knows very well that what I said about the Lightning port not
being USB compliant was correct but you will never get him to admit
it.

this isn't about the *port*.

it's about whether an ipad is usb compliant, and it is. this is a fact,
which the above screen shot clearly proves.

What! The whole iPad?

yes, the whole ipad.

You are daft.

not as much as you.

did you really think only a portion of the ipad is compliant but not
all of it? maybe only the left half of it?

USB compliance deals only with the connection and its driver. It has
nothing to do with the rest of kit and caboodle.

yes it does. there's actually quite a bit more to usb compliance than
just that.

at the end of the day, users expect to be able to plug in a usb
peripheral into a usb host and expect it to work, and that's exactly
what happens with an ipad, android tablet, hard drive, or many other
usb peripherals.

it even works sometimes with non-compliant products, notably cheap
hubs, cables and chargers.

you don't think apple is forging a vendor/device id, do you? the usb-if
does not take kindly to that. just ask palm.

No I don't. What gave you the idea I did?

all i'm saying is if they have a valid vendor/device id, then it's usb
compliant. the usb-if does not hand out ids just for the asking.

But you can't connect to it with anything but Apple's special external
adaptor. Without that it is merely (?) an Apple Lightning socket.

it's not an adaptor and they include the cable. more stupid arguing.

Are you saying it's just a straightforward plug with the wires of the
cable connected to pins? No fancy electronics of any kind?

and for those who don't recall what palm did, they stole apple's usb
vendor/device id so that a palm pre would appear as an apple ipod and
letting it sync with itunes, without palm needing to write their own
sync software. not cool.

Irrelevant.

not surprisingly, the usb-if was not amused, nor was apple. apple
quickly blocked it with an update, but that didn't stop palm. they
spoofed that a second time, which was blocked again. really not cool.

Still irrelevant.

not really. the fact that the ipad has a valid vendor/device id is
proof that it's usb compliant.

the palm story is just an amusing story of how low some companies will
stoop.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

some mobile devices now have usb 3, which at this point is stupid, but
as technology progresses, it will be important.

lightning is ready for that.

And Lightning is already a 250V 50Hz capable port. I find that very
useful.

no it definitely is not. it charges off 5v from usb.

the power adapter is where the conversion occurs. *not* in the
lightning port. it charges off 5v.

just beware of cheap chinese power adapters, such as the one that
shorted out and actually did send line level voltages to the phone and
electrocuted someone a month or two ago.

On 10/6/2013 2:30 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:


Not true, if you apply that logic, the iPod connecter is not aUSB port,
yet nospam says it is.

i never said the connector was a usb port. you asked if the ipad is a
usb device, and it is.

you are also confused about usb host versus peripheral. there's a
difference. the ipad is a usb peripheral, not a usb host, although it
can do some host functions.

an android tablet with a microusb port would not allow you to connect a
hard drive either. it too is a usb *perhipheral*, not a host.

you can't connect multiple usb peripherals together without a host,
which is one reason why what you're wanting to do makes no sense.


Your whole rant started when I said I could not do that with an iPad, so
I went another route.

Sheesh.

--
PeterN

On 10/6/2013 2:30 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:

also keep in mind that replacing brakes is cheaper than replacing a
transmission.

Not always to the end user.
Transmissions are covered by the warranty, brakes are not.

not all cars have warranties, and there is probably a clause in there
for misuse anyway.

So. Which new cas are not covered by a warranty.



besides, a brake job is relatively quick and some people can even do it
themselves. a transmission job is not quick, warranty or otherwise, and
very unlikely to be done by a backyard mechanic.

Irrelevant






--
PeterN

On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 17:41:41 -0400, Alan Browne
wrote:

On 2013.10.06 17:29 , Eric Stevens wrote:

And Lightning is already a 250V 50Hz capable port. I find that very
useful.

I hope not. The charger (wall wart) may take up to 250 AC, but it's
output to the device is a nominal 5V for power.

Quite so. It needs an adaptor, but it needs an adaptor to function as
a USB port also. :-)
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 17:56:13 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

some mobile devices now have usb 3, which at this point is stupid, but
as technology progresses, it will be important.

lightning is ready for that.

And Lightning is already a 250V 50Hz capable port. I find that very
useful.

no it definitely is not. it charges off 5v from usb.

the power adapter is where the conversion occurs. *not* in the
lightning port. it charges off 5v.

I stand corrected.

just beware of cheap chinese power adapters, such as the one that
shorted out and actually did send line level voltages to the phone and
electrocuted someone a month or two ago.

There must have been multiple failures for that to occur. Firstly in
the power adaptor and secondly in whatever protection is built into
the iPhone. Before you start accusing me of bashing, let me say I am
fully aware that no electrical protection can protect against
everything that can go wrong.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

Eric Stevens wrote:

On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 14:30:44 -0400, nospam
wrote:


it does what it's designed to do. it doesn't do what it's not designed
to do.

This thread might have been terminated long ago if you could explain
what the iPad is lacking that prevents PeterN doing what he wanted.

It's simple Eric, the ipad is lacking nothing other than the software built
in to do the task. Apple have decided that no one would want to back up to a
hard drive plugged straight into the device, therefore nospam believes that,
Apple being something like $Deity, it must be true.


--
sid

On Mon, 07 Oct 2013 21:24:43 +0100, sid wrote:

Eric Stevens wrote:

On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 14:30:44 -0400, nospam
wrote:


it does what it's designed to do. it doesn't do what it's not designed
to do.

This thread might have been terminated long ago if you could explain
what the iPad is lacking that prevents PeterN doing what he wanted.

It's simple Eric, the ipad is lacking nothing other than the software built
in to do the task. Apple have decided that no one would want to back up to a
hard drive plugged straight into the device, therefore nospam believes that,
Apple being something like $Deity, it must be true.

It's more than that. The IPAD (with it's external adaptor) is a USB
slave device. It cannot manage any external USB devices as it lacks
the hardware to act as a controller.

Just plugging it in to a an external HDD with a USB connection will
get you nowhere. However if the HDD incorporated all that is required
to impliment a USB controller (and a power supply) it could possibly
down load to the iPad - assuming that the iPad had an app capable of
running the whole shebang.

Perhaps a better way to do it is to give your external HDD an
intelligent controller with Wi-Fi capability.

--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

What! Tethering does not mean "connecting one device to another"? You
surprise me. What does it mean to you in the context of iPads and
computers?

tethering a device can mean two things, tethered to a computer via a
cable or tethered to a mobile hotspot acting as an internet gateway.

I need to help you with your reading again.

"In the context of mobile phones or Internet tablets, tethering
allows sharing the Internet connection of the phone or tablet with
other devices such as laptops. Connection of the phone or tablet
with other devices can be done over wireless LAN (Wi-Fi), over
Bluetooth or by physical connection using a cable ... ".

that's not what you're doing, so it's irrelevant.

What then am I doing when I back up and synchronise my iPad?

you're backing it up.

An iPad can be tethered to a computer by a "wireless LAN (Wi-Fi)", but
I'm sure you really know that.

wifi is *not* considered tethering, except when done with a mobile
hotspot as you describe above, which is *not* what you're doing.

What you really mean is that you don't want to consider it tethering
for the purpose of this argument. Of course it's tethering.

calling wifi tethering is a *huge* stretch.

*you* might call it tethering but that doesn't mean anyone else does.

i already gave the example of a camera tethered to a computer, which is
done, not surprisingly, by a cable.

I raised a question about the tethering of an iPad to a computer
which, not surprisingly, can be done without using cables.

it's not considered tethering when it's done without cables.

i gave the example of a camera tethered to a computer via a cable.
astronauts are tethered to spacecraft by a cable.

tethering means cable, in nearly every scenario.

the exception is a mobile hotspot, which is not what you're doing.

in other words, you can go to any room in your house and even outside
in the yard, possibly as far as a neighbor's house, all while still
connected to your own wifi network, and with a settings toggle, could
even be anywhere in the world.

I can think of lots of places where a settings toggle would be of
absolutely no use to you.

the only place would be where there's no cellular data and it's quite
obvious that a mobile device is crippled in such a place.

there you go nitpicking again.

....could be anywhere in the world where there is cellular data, and for
a non-sucky user experience, it should be 3g or better, ideally lte,
and preferably with your isp at home having high bandwidth as well.

But I want to use my iPad at night!

then charge it during the day.

I didn't say 'only at night'.

I want to use my iPad anytime both night and day.

when do you sleep? do you sleep? that's when you charge it.

To late. It's gone flat before then.

you use an ipad 10+ hours a day, non-stop?

Between me and my wife, we can easily top that.

then you're an edge case. most people don't use up the 10+ hour
capacity in one day.

I don't care whether I'm an edge case or not. I'm me.

apple did not design the ipad just for you or for peter.

they design for common use cases. the edge cases either deal with the
limitations or buy a different product designed for their particular
needs.

no matter how much battery capacity they put into an ipad, there will
always be *someone* who wants more. they could include a battery that
lasts 36 hours non-stop (more than triple what it is now), and there
will be someone who will whine that it won't last for their entire week
long camping trip, where there was no power to plug it in at all.

the reality is that nearly everyone is well served by a 10+ hour
battery. those who need more can buy a higher capacity external
battery, or carry a charger (they're very small).

what people actually do is why it's not supported. very few people
would use it if it was!

apple's resources are much better spent working on features that many
users will use, not obscure use cases.

I ask you again: what special functionality within the iPad does the
capability required by PeterN actually require?

to be a host and to be able to browse and manipulate files on external
file systems.

as i said before, the ipad is not designed to do every single possible
task (a recipe for disaster). it's designed to do a lot of things and
do them well, but there are some things that are not suited for it.

PeterN's
problem is what he want's to do but can't.

he can still do it, but with a different product. no big deal.

Why can't he do it with an iPad?

it's been explained many times.

This thread might have been terminated long ago if you could explain
what the iPad is lacking that prevents PeterN doing what he wanted.

i explained it many days ago.

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

Not true, if you apply that logic, the iPod connecter is not aUSB port,
yet nospam says it is.

i never said the connector was a usb port. you asked if the ipad is a
usb device, and it is.

you are also confused about usb host versus peripheral. there's a
difference. the ipad is a usb peripheral, not a usb host, although it
can do some host functions.

an android tablet with a microusb port would not allow you to connect a
hard drive either. it too is a usb *perhipheral*, not a host.

you can't connect multiple usb peripherals together without a host,
which is one reason why what you're wanting to do makes no sense.

Thank you.

At last.

I think that's what we all needed to understand.

at last? i said that several days ago, and more than once.

maybe next time try reading before you spew.