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Is it really illegal to snap a picture of a clerk in a Post Office?
Is it illegal to snap a photograph of a clerk inside a post office?
Today, in California, I tried to exchange a book of 32 cent stamps for current stamps, which is something that I have been doing for decades (whenever they change the prices) at a value-for-value rate (lately I've been exchanging for "forever stamps" at the current rate). In the past, many times, I merely placed the stamps on a sheet of paper, in the presence of the clerk, thereby making them unstamped, but still valid. However, after watching me, the clerk would not allow the exchange, citing an unwritten "new regulation" that disallows this common practice. I snapped photos of the transaction, in the clear presence of everyone (there were about 3 clerks present), and there was absolutely no protest (it as a large Nikon SLR which I happened to have hanging on my neck as I was returning from an outing and stopped at the Post Office by way of errand). Later, I called the Officer in Charge of that Post Office, who indignantly said I was breaking the law by taking a picture of the clerk "without permission". I must restate, it was clear as the sun shines that I was snapping pictures, and NOBODY raised a word of protest - but - I must also ask if there is ANY legal standing for the OIC's presumption that I am guilty of breaking the law for doing so. May I ask: Legally, in California, in a Post Office, when nobody objects, is it against the law to snap a photograph or otherwise record the transaction? |
#2
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Is it really illegal to snap a picture of a clerk in a Post Office?
On Sat, 30 Mar 2013 02:14:30 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote: May I ask: Legally, in California, in a Post Office, when nobody objects, is it against the law to snap a photograph or otherwise record the transaction? I have no idea what the law is about taking the photo, but I'm pretty sure that whether anyone objects or not is irrelevent. Otherwise, I could walk into a store, take what I want, and leave. If no one objected, I'd be in the clear. |
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Is it really illegal to snap a picture of a clerk in a Post Office?
On 3/29/2013 9:14 PM, Danny D. wrote:
Is it illegal to snap a photograph of a clerk inside a post office? Later, I called the Officer in Charge of that Post Office, who indignantly said I was breaking the law by taking a picture of the clerk "without permission". I must restate, it was clear as the sun shines that I was snapping pictures, and NOBODY raised a word of protest - but - I must also ask if there is ANY legal standing for the OIC's presumption that I am guilty of breaking the law for doing so. May I ask: Legally, in California, in a Post Office, when nobody objects, is it against the law to snap a photograph or otherwise record the transaction? Sounds like there are two issues he Your ability to exchange stamps that you've been doing, apparently, since Christ was a pup. The second is this BS with the photos. Want to have some fun AND get both questions answered? Go in to visit the O-I-C and tell him how upset you are that you may have inadvertently run afoul of some regulation that even his subordinates were not aware of. "To get this cleared up, why don't you show me the regulation that prohibits photography of this sort and while you're at it, show me the regulation that prohibits me from turning in unused postage for credit?" If/when he refuses or starts back peddling, look him in the eye and request, then demand, if necessary that he reach out and get the postal inspection service involved. If this pompous jerk is constipated, that will clear him out real fast. I've personally used this ploy when told by somebody who didn't know better that this or that could not be done when, in fact, I already knew the regulation and that it COULD be done. As soon as the Inspection service "button" was pushed, their attitude changed dramatically. Great fun! Go for it! |
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Is it really illegal to snap a picture of a clerk in a Post Office?
"Danny D." wrote:
May I ask: Legally, in California, in a Post Office, when nobody objects, is it against the law to snap a photograph or otherwise record the transaction? It is private property that is open to the public. That means you can photograph to your heart's content as long as the manager or clerks do not object. They do have the option to ask you to leave if you don't stop. Not leaving would put you in violation of tresspass laws. Your described incident did not involve anyone suggesting that you leave. Therefore you do not appear to have broken any law. (In fact I do not really know if it would be legal for a postal employee to demand that you leave a Post Office because you are taking pictures. If one did that, I would consult an attorney if it was actually a problem.) -- Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/ Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) |
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Is it really illegal to snap a picture of a clerk in a Post Office?
On Fri, 29 Mar 2013 21:47:04 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
wrote: : On 3/29/2013 9:14 PM, Danny D. wrote: : Is it illegal to snap a photograph of a clerk inside a post office? : Later, I called the Officer in Charge of that Post Office, who : indignantly said I was breaking the law by taking a picture of : the clerk "without permission". : : I must restate, it was clear as the sun shines that I was snapping : pictures, and NOBODY raised a word of protest - but - I must also : ask if there is ANY legal standing for the OIC's presumption that : I am guilty of breaking the law for doing so. : : May I ask: : Legally, in California, in a Post Office, when nobody objects, : is it against the law to snap a photograph or otherwise record : the transaction? : : : : Sounds like there are two issues he : : Your ability to exchange stamps that you've been doing, apparently, : since Christ was a pup. The second is this BS with the photos. : : Want to have some fun AND get both questions answered? Go in to visit : the O-I-C and tell him how upset you are that you may have inadvertently : run afoul of some regulation that even his subordinates were not aware : of. "To get this cleared up, why don't you show me the regulation that : prohibits photography of this sort and while you're at it, show me the : regulation that prohibits me from turning in unused postage for credit?" : : If/when he refuses or starts back peddling, look him in the eye and : request, then demand, if necessary that he reach out and get the postal : inspection service involved. If this pompous jerk is constipated, that : will clear him out real fast. : : I've personally used this ploy when told by somebody who didn't know : better that this or that could not be done when, in fact, I already knew : the regulation and that it COULD be done. As soon as the Inspection : service "button" was pushed, their attitude changed dramatically. : : Great fun! Go for it! The difference between your situation and that of the OP is that you knew the legal ground you were on and the OP doesn't. Under the circumstances I'd suggest that he not conflate the two issues. I'd deal with the stamp exchange question by going to another post office and finding out what they have to say. Only when that issue was settled (and maybe not even then) would I go back to the first P.O. and deal with the photography issue. FWIW, I once photographed an event in a post office (a tribute to the late postmaster after whom the building was named), and nobody said a word. But of course I wasn't there to complain about the service at the stamp window. :^) Bob |
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Is it really illegal to snap a picture of a clerk in a Post Office?
This is actually the opposite of the question asked, but nowadays it is
possible to take a picture almost anywhere without anyone noticing. There are places where you are forbidden to take photos (eg. with anything over a 200mm lens at the Australian Open tennis), but it is simple to break the rule. I have a small camera with a 5-100mm lens. As it is not 35mm, this is actually a 28 - 560 mm equivalent. It is also forbidden to take videos at all - but almost any camera today will take video. And if you have a 20 megapixel camera, you can take a photo and blow up that little bit in the middle. And you don't have to put a camera up to your eye to take a picture. -- Edward McArdle |
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Is it really illegal to snap a picture of a clerk in a Post Office?
In article , Danny D.
wrote: Is it illegal to snap a photograph of a clerk inside a post office? Maybe. As a previous poster said, they have the right to ask you to stop, and require you to leave if you don't. If you follow these instructions, you've haven't broken any laws; if you don't, it's trespass. It's important to know that USPS facilities are private property. Despite all appearances, the post office is no longer part of the government; legally, they're a private company that's been given a monopoly contract to deliver the mail. Regarding the postage exchange, that rule, as far as I know, changed some time ago. A friendly counter clerk MAY change stamps for you, if the stamps are usable and he can put them back in his inventory. Stuck onto a piece of paper, no way. I'm not a postal employee, but my SO is - this this is gleaned from many, many "how was your day" conversations... |
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Is it really illegal to snap a picture of a clerk in a Post Office?
On 3/29/2013 11:31 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
On Sat, 30 Mar 2013 00:14:49 -0400, Robert Coe wrote: On Fri, 29 Mar 2013 21:47:04 -0500, Unquestionably Confused wrote: : On 3/29/2013 9:14 PM, Danny D. wrote: : Is it illegal to snap a photograph of a clerk inside a post office? : Later, I called the Officer in Charge of that Post Office, who : indignantly said I was breaking the law by taking a picture of : the clerk "without permission". : : I must restate, it was clear as the sun shines that I was snapping : pictures, and NOBODY raised a word of protest - but - I must also : ask if there is ANY legal standing for the OIC's presumption that : I am guilty of breaking the law for doing so. : : May I ask: : Legally, in California, in a Post Office, when nobody objects, : is it against the law to snap a photograph or otherwise record : the transaction? : : : : Sounds like there are two issues he : : Your ability to exchange stamps that you've been doing, apparently, : since Christ was a pup. The second is this BS with the photos. : : Want to have some fun AND get both questions answered? Go in to visit : the O-I-C and tell him how upset you are that you may have inadvertently : run afoul of some regulation that even his subordinates were not aware : of. "To get this cleared up, why don't you show me the regulation that : prohibits photography of this sort and while you're at it, show me the : regulation that prohibits me from turning in unused postage for credit?" : : If/when he refuses or starts back peddling, look him in the eye and : request, then demand, if necessary that he reach out and get the postal : inspection service involved. If this pompous jerk is constipated, that : will clear him out real fast. : : I've personally used this ploy when told by somebody who didn't know : better that this or that could not be done when, in fact, I already knew : the regulation and that it COULD be done. As soon as the Inspection : service "button" was pushed, their attitude changed dramatically. : : Great fun! Go for it! The difference between your situation and that of the OP is that you knew the legal ground you were on and the OP doesn't. Under the circumstances I'd suggest that he not conflate the two issues. I'd deal with the stamp exchange question by going to another post office and finding out what they have to say. Only when that issue was settled (and maybe not even then) would I go back to the first P.O. and deal with the photography issue. FWIW, I once photographed an event in a post office (a tribute to the late postmaster after whom the building was named), and nobody said a word. But of course I wasn't there to complain about the service at the stamp window. :^) Bob There are some battles not worth the fight. As I understand it, the OP took a photograph of post office employees in a post office while they were at work without asking their permission. While they did not object at the time, they were not given the opportunity to agree or object. The supervisor, though, does disagree. For some reason, he or she is upset about it. There's nothing to be gained by finding out the legalities of the situation. It's done. The OP has his photos and it will blow over at the post office if it's dropped here. If the OP presses this, what's going to happen is that the supervisor is going to take it out on the employees. Any further fuss over this is only going create problems for the employees. I take a lot of candid photographs, and I believe in the rights of the photographer as much as anyone here, but I'm not going to get some employee's ass chewed out by his supervisor even if the supervisor is wrong. I'd let it go. FWIW. I've never met a post office employee who didn't deserve an ass chewing. Just sayin'. |
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Is it really illegal to snap a picture of a clerk in a Post Office?
On 2013-03-30 07:27:06 -0700, MaxD said:
On 3/29/2013 11:31 PM, Tony Cooper wrote: L Snip I take a lot of candid photographs, and I believe in the rights of the photographer as much as anyone here, but I'm not going to get some employee's ass chewed out by his supervisor even if the supervisor is wrong. I'd let it go. FWIW. I've never met a post office employee who didn't deserve an ass chewing. Just sayin'. Then you ought to take a visit to the Paso Robles, California post office, where you will find staff as efficient, and helpful as you might find in some of the best managed, user friendly businesses in the country. It is a fairly large post office which deals with the needs of a medium size town and the vast rural delivery needs found in Northern San Luis Obispo County. I can't remember being treated less than civilly, or getting less than good service from any of that branch's employees. Methinks you are tarring all USPS employees with the same brush. -- Regards, Savageduck |
#10
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Is it really illegal to snap a picture of a clerk in a Post Office?
On Sat, 30 Mar 2013 08:27:06 -0600, MaxD wrote:
: On 3/29/2013 11:31 PM, Tony Cooper wrote: : On Sat, 30 Mar 2013 00:14:49 -0400, Robert Coe wrote: : : On Fri, 29 Mar 2013 21:47:04 -0500, Unquestionably Confused : wrote: : : On 3/29/2013 9:14 PM, Danny D. wrote: : : Is it illegal to snap a photograph of a clerk inside a post office? : : Later, I called the Officer in Charge of that Post Office, who : : indignantly said I was breaking the law by taking a picture of : : the clerk "without permission". : : : : I must restate, it was clear as the sun shines that I was snapping : : pictures, and NOBODY raised a word of protest - but - I must also : : ask if there is ANY legal standing for the OIC's presumption that : : I am guilty of breaking the law for doing so. : : : : May I ask: : : Legally, in California, in a Post Office, when nobody objects, : : is it against the law to snap a photograph or otherwise record : : the transaction? : : : : : : : : Sounds like there are two issues he : : : : Your ability to exchange stamps that you've been doing, apparently, : : since Christ was a pup. The second is this BS with the photos. : : : : Want to have some fun AND get both questions answered? Go in to visit : : the O-I-C and tell him how upset you are that you may have inadvertently : : run afoul of some regulation that even his subordinates were not aware : : of. "To get this cleared up, why don't you show me the regulation that : : prohibits photography of this sort and while you're at it, show me the : : regulation that prohibits me from turning in unused postage for credit?" : : : : If/when he refuses or starts back peddling, look him in the eye and : : request, then demand, if necessary that he reach out and get the postal : : inspection service involved. If this pompous jerk is constipated, that : : will clear him out real fast. : : : : I've personally used this ploy when told by somebody who didn't know : : better that this or that could not be done when, in fact, I already knew : : the regulation and that it COULD be done. As soon as the Inspection : : service "button" was pushed, their attitude changed dramatically. : : : : Great fun! Go for it! : : The difference between your situation and that of the OP is that you knew the : legal ground you were on and the OP doesn't. Under the circumstances I'd : suggest that he not conflate the two issues. I'd deal with the stamp exchange : question by going to another post office and finding out what they have to : say. Only when that issue was settled (and maybe not even then) would I go : back to the first P.O. and deal with the photography issue. : : FWIW, I once photographed an event in a post office (a tribute to the late : postmaster after whom the building was named), and nobody said a word. But of : course I wasn't there to complain about the service at the stamp window. :^) : : Bob : : There are some battles not worth the fight. As I understand it, the : OP took a photograph of post office employees in a post office while : they were at work without asking their permission. While they did not : object at the time, they were not given the opportunity to agree or : object. : : The supervisor, though, does disagree. For some reason, he or she is : upset about it. : : There's nothing to be gained by finding out the legalities of the : situation. It's done. The OP has his photos and it will blow over at : the post office if it's dropped here. : : If the OP presses this, what's going to happen is that the supervisor : is going to take it out on the employees. Any further fuss over this : is only going create problems for the employees. : : I take a lot of candid photographs, and I believe in the rights of the : photographer as much as anyone here, but I'm not going to get some : employee's ass chewed out by his supervisor even if the supervisor is : wrong. : : I'd let it go. : : : : FWIW. I've never met a post office employee who didn't deserve an ass : chewing. Just sayin'. I have, often. Every time I've done business at the window in the post office across the street from my office, the clerks have been unfailingly friendly and helpful. Bob |
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