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#51
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Roger Halstead wrote:
On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 03:13:28 +0000 (UTC), Paul J Gans wrote: Ken Davey wrote: "David J Taylor" wrote in message ... Mike Harvey wrote: [] It seems that Microsoft broke some of their own software with this patch: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=17869 and http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=842242 With respect, I would expect many of those programs to "break" whatever firewall software was installed. The KB article seems to say little more than "open the ports these programs need". Cheers, David Here is a Microsoft site with a list of programs that 'may' be affected. http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;884130 Regards. Ken. How curious. I expected WordPerfect 11 not to work, but Zone Alarm? My my. And my viruschecker as well... Then there's Nero 6 Ultra, my CD and DVD burning software. I have these, they work fine, and I didn't even have to download any updates Except for Norton Antivirus and the System Works live update took care of that. Zone Alarm? It works fine. You just have to put it in learn mode and give access to the proper apps.. And InstallShield 8. How do I know which of my programs installs with that? And Pinnicle Studio? And the free version of Real Player. My goodness. What can I do? Oh, wait. Microsoft has programs that will replace most all of this don't they... Ok bad guys out there! I've installed all of the security updates up to the release of SP2. But I don't think I'm going to install SP2 -- at least not until somebody supplies me with updates to those (and a number of other) programs so that they will work. I guess I'll just have to hide behind my existing firewalls... I installed SP-2 and I'm still hiding behind my existing ZA firewalls. :-)) I haven't learned to trust MS quite yet. Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com ---- Paul J. Gans While ZA isn't my choice of firewall, I am sure that almost ANY commercial firewall will do the job better than the one built into SP2. That said, I am also sure that the built in one is better than no firewall at all. It isn't a matter of trust, just experience with built ins versus commercial software. I wouldn't trade Adobe PSE2 for MS Paint, either. |
#52
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Roger Halstead wrote:
On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 03:13:28 +0000 (UTC), Paul J Gans wrote: Ken Davey wrote: "David J Taylor" wrote in message ... Mike Harvey wrote: [] It seems that Microsoft broke some of their own software with this patch: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=17869 and http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=842242 With respect, I would expect many of those programs to "break" whatever firewall software was installed. The KB article seems to say little more than "open the ports these programs need". Cheers, David Here is a Microsoft site with a list of programs that 'may' be affected. http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;884130 Regards. Ken. How curious. I expected WordPerfect 11 not to work, but Zone Alarm? My my. And my viruschecker as well... Then there's Nero 6 Ultra, my CD and DVD burning software. I have these, they work fine, and I didn't even have to download any updates Except for Norton Antivirus and the System Works live update took care of that. Zone Alarm? It works fine. You just have to put it in learn mode and give access to the proper apps.. And InstallShield 8. How do I know which of my programs installs with that? And Pinnicle Studio? And the free version of Real Player. My goodness. What can I do? Oh, wait. Microsoft has programs that will replace most all of this don't they... Ok bad guys out there! I've installed all of the security updates up to the release of SP2. But I don't think I'm going to install SP2 -- at least not until somebody supplies me with updates to those (and a number of other) programs so that they will work. I guess I'll just have to hide behind my existing firewalls... I installed SP-2 and I'm still hiding behind my existing ZA firewalls. :-)) I haven't learned to trust MS quite yet. I've been thinking of installing SP2 and turning the firewall off. My home setup has the machine behind a router with a built-in firewall. And I like Zone Alarm very much. At work (my other XP machine) the firewall is more of a problem. But one thing at a time. ----- Paul J. Gans |
#53
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Roger Halstead wrote:
On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 03:13:28 +0000 (UTC), Paul J Gans wrote: Ken Davey wrote: "David J Taylor" wrote in message ... Mike Harvey wrote: [] It seems that Microsoft broke some of their own software with this patch: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=17869 and http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=842242 With respect, I would expect many of those programs to "break" whatever firewall software was installed. The KB article seems to say little more than "open the ports these programs need". Cheers, David Here is a Microsoft site with a list of programs that 'may' be affected. http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;884130 Regards. Ken. How curious. I expected WordPerfect 11 not to work, but Zone Alarm? My my. And my viruschecker as well... Then there's Nero 6 Ultra, my CD and DVD burning software. I have these, they work fine, and I didn't even have to download any updates Except for Norton Antivirus and the System Works live update took care of that. Zone Alarm? It works fine. You just have to put it in learn mode and give access to the proper apps.. And InstallShield 8. How do I know which of my programs installs with that? And Pinnicle Studio? And the free version of Real Player. My goodness. What can I do? Oh, wait. Microsoft has programs that will replace most all of this don't they... Ok bad guys out there! I've installed all of the security updates up to the release of SP2. But I don't think I'm going to install SP2 -- at least not until somebody supplies me with updates to those (and a number of other) programs so that they will work. I guess I'll just have to hide behind my existing firewalls... I installed SP-2 and I'm still hiding behind my existing ZA firewalls. :-)) I haven't learned to trust MS quite yet. I've been thinking of installing SP2 and turning the firewall off. My home setup has the machine behind a router with a built-in firewall. And I like Zone Alarm very much. At work (my other XP machine) the firewall is more of a problem. But one thing at a time. ----- Paul J. Gans |
#54
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Ron Hunter wrote:
Paul J Gans wrote: Ron Hunter wrote: Paul J Gans wrote: Ken Davey wrote: "David J Taylor" wrote in message ... Mike Harvey wrote: [] It seems that Microsoft broke some of their own software with this patch: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=17869 and http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=842242 With respect, I would expect many of those programs to "break" whatever firewall software was installed. The KB article seems to say little more than "open the ports these programs need". Cheers, David Here is a Microsoft site with a list of programs that 'may' be affected. http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;884130 Regards. Ken. How curious. I expected WordPerfect 11 not to work, but Zone Alarm? My my. And my viruschecker as well... Then there's Nero 6 Ultra, my CD and DVD burning software. And InstallShield 8. How do I know which of my programs installs with that? And Pinnicle Studio? And the free version of Real Player. My goodness. What can I do? Oh, wait. Microsoft has programs that will replace most all of this don't they... Ok bad guys out there! I've installed all of the security updates up to the release of SP2. But I don't think I'm going to install SP2 -- at least not until somebody supplies me with updates to those (and a number of other) programs so that they will work. I guess I'll just have to hide behind my existing firewalls... ---- Paul J. Gans First, since firewalls are particularly 'intimate' with the boot process, and the OS internals, it comes as no surprise that ZA has issues. I am sure that if they don't already have an update, they will very shortly. Meanwhile, the MS firewall is better than none at all, however marginally. I can't see how any of this reflects negatively on MS for trying to fix problems with their product, and free at that. Well, I'm sitting behind a Linksys router with a firewall in addition to Zone Alarm. But your more important question about fixing their products has a different answer. The problems most folks object to about Windows is that the vulnerabilities were *designed in*. Things like a remote site being able to execute code on your machine, etc. However, the largest problem I have is that Windows is geared to the clueless. Things are done for you automatically and you can not easily find out *what* has been done. If you are a guru or have a tame one handy, you can often (but not always) change the settings to suit you. This is evil. It is precisely the difference between a consumer point and shoot and a pro SLR. Except that I don't get the chance to buy the pro SLR equivalent version of Windows. I'm forced to take the point and shoot version and make changes at my risk. ----- Paul J. Gans I question the 'designed in' statement. I am sure that no company would actually design in such vulnerability. The legal ramifications would be fatal. However, security was NOT a major concern in the design, but rather making an OS that allowed easy use, and access from the provider end so that the user could be bombarded with commercial messages. Unfortunately, this lack of attention to such considerations as prevention of data buffer overruns has come back to haunt them. And they ARE trying to correct the problems. They have even been forced to close up the 'holes' that were made to allow commercial intrusions and configure the software to be secure out of the box. That's progress, reluctant though they were to do it. It is progress. But their operating system design was known not to be secure at the time it was designed. We've known how to build decent operating systems for over 30 years now. Designing in the ability for an e-mail reader to execute a program contained in the e-mail was evil. It was done for a good purpose when the net was a lot safer, but that too was known to be a bad thing. But enough. This is all off-topic here. If you don't like Windows, use Unix, or Mac, or better yet, write your own, attract vendors to write software for it, and get richer than Bill Gates. I think I'd like that. What I actually run at home is a dual-boot machine with both XP and Linux. I mostly use XP for Photoshop and Dreamweaver (and a few other programs) and Linux for everything else, including reading e-mail and newsgroups. ---- Paul J. Gans |
#55
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Ron Hunter wrote:
Paul J Gans wrote: Ron Hunter wrote: Paul J Gans wrote: Ken Davey wrote: "David J Taylor" wrote in message ... Mike Harvey wrote: [] It seems that Microsoft broke some of their own software with this patch: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=17869 and http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=842242 With respect, I would expect many of those programs to "break" whatever firewall software was installed. The KB article seems to say little more than "open the ports these programs need". Cheers, David Here is a Microsoft site with a list of programs that 'may' be affected. http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;884130 Regards. Ken. How curious. I expected WordPerfect 11 not to work, but Zone Alarm? My my. And my viruschecker as well... Then there's Nero 6 Ultra, my CD and DVD burning software. And InstallShield 8. How do I know which of my programs installs with that? And Pinnicle Studio? And the free version of Real Player. My goodness. What can I do? Oh, wait. Microsoft has programs that will replace most all of this don't they... Ok bad guys out there! I've installed all of the security updates up to the release of SP2. But I don't think I'm going to install SP2 -- at least not until somebody supplies me with updates to those (and a number of other) programs so that they will work. I guess I'll just have to hide behind my existing firewalls... ---- Paul J. Gans First, since firewalls are particularly 'intimate' with the boot process, and the OS internals, it comes as no surprise that ZA has issues. I am sure that if they don't already have an update, they will very shortly. Meanwhile, the MS firewall is better than none at all, however marginally. I can't see how any of this reflects negatively on MS for trying to fix problems with their product, and free at that. Well, I'm sitting behind a Linksys router with a firewall in addition to Zone Alarm. But your more important question about fixing their products has a different answer. The problems most folks object to about Windows is that the vulnerabilities were *designed in*. Things like a remote site being able to execute code on your machine, etc. However, the largest problem I have is that Windows is geared to the clueless. Things are done for you automatically and you can not easily find out *what* has been done. If you are a guru or have a tame one handy, you can often (but not always) change the settings to suit you. This is evil. It is precisely the difference between a consumer point and shoot and a pro SLR. Except that I don't get the chance to buy the pro SLR equivalent version of Windows. I'm forced to take the point and shoot version and make changes at my risk. ----- Paul J. Gans I question the 'designed in' statement. I am sure that no company would actually design in such vulnerability. The legal ramifications would be fatal. However, security was NOT a major concern in the design, but rather making an OS that allowed easy use, and access from the provider end so that the user could be bombarded with commercial messages. Unfortunately, this lack of attention to such considerations as prevention of data buffer overruns has come back to haunt them. And they ARE trying to correct the problems. They have even been forced to close up the 'holes' that were made to allow commercial intrusions and configure the software to be secure out of the box. That's progress, reluctant though they were to do it. It is progress. But their operating system design was known not to be secure at the time it was designed. We've known how to build decent operating systems for over 30 years now. Designing in the ability for an e-mail reader to execute a program contained in the e-mail was evil. It was done for a good purpose when the net was a lot safer, but that too was known to be a bad thing. But enough. This is all off-topic here. If you don't like Windows, use Unix, or Mac, or better yet, write your own, attract vendors to write software for it, and get richer than Bill Gates. I think I'd like that. What I actually run at home is a dual-boot machine with both XP and Linux. I mostly use XP for Photoshop and Dreamweaver (and a few other programs) and Linux for everything else, including reading e-mail and newsgroups. ---- Paul J. Gans |
#56
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Paul J Gans wrote:
snip I've been thinking of installing SP2 and turning the firewall off. My home setup has the machine behind a router with a built-in firewall. And I like Zone Alarm very much. At work (my other XP machine) the firewall is more of a problem. But one thing at a time. ----- Paul J. Gans Actually that is recommend - if you have a better firewall. You have two better firewalls. The Windows one has improved, but it's not up to the level of ZoneAlarm yet. I run Sygate's Personal Firewall which is much like ZA. SP2 didn't recognize it, but I told Windows not to check it and turned off the Windows firewall. It works just fine. I also have a firewall in my router. Clyde |
#57
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Paul J Gans wrote:
snip I've been thinking of installing SP2 and turning the firewall off. My home setup has the machine behind a router with a built-in firewall. And I like Zone Alarm very much. At work (my other XP machine) the firewall is more of a problem. But one thing at a time. ----- Paul J. Gans Actually that is recommend - if you have a better firewall. You have two better firewalls. The Windows one has improved, but it's not up to the level of ZoneAlarm yet. I run Sygate's Personal Firewall which is much like ZA. SP2 didn't recognize it, but I told Windows not to check it and turned off the Windows firewall. It works just fine. I also have a firewall in my router. Clyde |
#58
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Clyde wrote:
Paul J Gans wrote: snip I've been thinking of installing SP2 and turning the firewall off. My home setup has the machine behind a router with a built-in firewall. And I like Zone Alarm very much. At work (my other XP machine) the firewall is more of a problem. But one thing at a time. ----- Paul J. Gans Actually that is recommend - if you have a better firewall. You have two better firewalls. The Windows one has improved, but it's not up to the level of ZoneAlarm yet. I run Sygate's Personal Firewall which is much like ZA. SP2 didn't recognize it, but I told Windows not to check it and turned off the Windows firewall. It works just fine. I also have a firewall in my router. Clyde Thanks. Sounds good. ---- Paul J. Gans |
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