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One photog's not so great experience with Apple



 
 
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  #21  
Old September 18th 18, 04:33 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
-hh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 838
Default One photog's not so great experience with Apple

On Monday, September 17, 2018 at 8:56:49 PM UTC-4, nospam wrote:
-hh wrote:

Now some people will try to blame
Intel for this (see below), but that doesn't excuse bugs in the OS,
or defective motherboards (see iPhone 8 recall), and the all-too-many
other recent examples of Apple shipping "beta" quality products.

those are separate issues, especially the iphone 8, which doesn't use
an intel x86 processor. some versions have an intel baseband but that's
entirely different.


That Apple is having such problems across all of their product
lines ... including those without Intel CPUs ... means that the
common problem isn't one supplier (Intel), but at Apple.


apple isn't having such problems across all of their product lines.



Listen to yourself! Its like saying that a car with three flat tires is just "doing fine".



apple has some of the highest customer satisfaction rates in the
industry, which could not happen if there were widespread problems.


Parroting others doesn't make it any more true.
As I said, reputation can be coasted on.


part of that is intel's fault, who is continually late with new chips.

That none of the other big PC OEMs .. Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc, manifest
having
the same problems coping with Intel makes it all clear that this isn't an
"Intel Problem", but an Apple problem.

oh yes they do.

http://www.zdnet.com/article/debian-...kylake-kaby-la
ke-processors-have-broken-hyper-threading/


No, because the claim was that Intel was unable to meet delivery
schedules for new chips, so noting that there's also been problems
with hyperthreading fails to substantiate that original claim.


yes it does. apple isn't going to use chips with known issues.

microsoft did it and it bit them in the ass.


Yet Dell, HP, Lenovo didn't ... You're cherrypicking.


It could be because...[Microsoft Surface]
For example, the Mac mini hasn't gotten a hardware
update for four (4) years. Its CPU is Intel's 5th
Generation "Haswell", and since then, Intel has shipped:

6th Gen - Broadwell (1Q2015)

7th Gen - Skylane (4Q2015) & Kaby Lake (3Q2016)

8th Gen - Coffee Lake (1Q2018) ... which are in the MacBook Pro's which
Apple finally updated in July, a full quarter later than their
competition,
who first shipped back in April.

the difference in the various generations is not that much and the mini
doesn't sell in huge numbers anyway.


That's lame excuse-making for the world's biggest by market cap corporation.

Particularly since in the meantime, there's been other companies who sell
similarly small form factor desktop PCs who _have_ been able to keep their
hardware designs up-to-date.


macbooks and imacs were recently updated, which are about 90% of mac
sales.


And design-wise, the mini is nothing more than just a repackaged Macbook,
which incurs minimal developmental & deployment costs.


the imac pro is well ahead of what pcs have to offer at similar prices.


Depends on what's important to one's workflow & needs as to if it is better
or not. If you want a beautiful screen but with obscene internal storage prices,
and zero repairability, the iMac Pro is for you.


nothing comes close to the performance of the latest iphones. even last
year's iphones were beating the competition.


Better is the enemy of good enough. What I need from my iPhones (yes, that's plural)
is better battery life, not faster frame rates to play games.

Oh, and dual SIMs (real ones, not an eSIM) for use when on international travel
to take advantage of non-outrageous local cellular costs would be nice too. The
first time that I had a $1500 monthly bill was quite fun trying to get accounting
to approve it.


rumours suggest an october event, where new macs and ipads will be
announced, possibly other stuff.


Still vaporware until it happens.


in other words, an updated mini with coffee lake wouldn't be that much
better than what exists now.


Where "not much faster" is ~35% CPU and ~50% higher memory bandwidth.
Even before considering also having higher core counts available.


what matters is real world performance.


Yet benchmarks still exist as they serve a useful purpose.

this year's macbook pro versus last year's macbook pro versus the 2015
is not *that* much.


Google is your friend.


We can similarly look at the Intel Xeon line for the Mac Pro, which
has gone five (5) years without any hardware refreshes. Anyone
really want to claim that Intel hasn't released _any_ Server/
Workstation CPUs in five years?

apple admitted they made a mistake with the trashcan mac pro.


Way back in April 2017, so where the **** is its replacement already?


18 months is not very long.
apple's product cycles are 2-3 years.


And 2-3 years from when the Trash Can first shipped in 2013 is ... 2-3 years ago.

That it took them so long to 'fess up to having screwed up is a sign of bad leadership.


Keep in mind that it only took Apple six (6) months to ship "Yikes!".


that wasn't a complete redesign and an entirely different era.


As if it requires a "complete redesign" for them to replace the guts of the
"cheese grater" a third time. /S Because there's _still_ nothing wrong
with the pre-trashcan Mac Pro design, other than Apple not wanting to.

The longer that a next Mac Pro doesn't ship - - the bigger of a disaster it is going
to be, with a closed and non-maintainable architecture that's only good for Apple.


they've been working on a redesigned mac pro, which will probably be
announced next year sometime.


No, they've *said* that they're working on it. And there still isn't
any firm release date, so it is classical vaporware.


are you accusing apple of making false and misleading statements?


Nope - merely repeating what Apple Fanboys have said about Apple's
competitors for the past twenty years.

Prove me wrong by citing the release date that Apple has published in a
Press Release that's archived on Apple's website. Unless you can produce
that, the words are just more vaporware.



Apple has left open their barn doors so wide that they could announce
on Christmas Day 2019 ... and claim that they're not "late".


they never announced a date for the next mac pro, so it can't be late.


Ergo, it is still vaporware.


The MacBook Air isn't a spring chicken either; its running on
a Broadwell CPU from 2015, and its last "update" was merely a
cull of base specifications to options, and decreasing the
manufacturing line from six discrete models to two.

except that it's still selling quite well. not everyone needs
top of the line.


Try keeping your excuses consistent:
* the mini isn't being updated because it isn't selling well
* the air isn't being updated because it _is_ selling well


they're not excuses and it's two different products.


The rationalization attempt is still a flagrant self-contradiction.

i said the air *was* updated, just not at the same price point, so they
kept the old air around, which is an extremely popular product.


The air's last "update" was to kill off the 11" and to make the previously
optional 13" version the new base version. That's why they went from
six part#s to just two.


its replacement is the retina macbook, except that they can't
make that at the macbook air price point yet, so they're keeping
both, for now.


Amazing how other manufacturers are able to sell both MB and MBA
classes of machine for roughly half what Apple charges. Sure, we
can say that its the OSX secret sauce that makes it worth paying
more, but this much more...not really.


not with the same specs, they aren't.


Yes, less. And for the example I provided, I own both.


apple kept the 2012 non-retina macbook around for a few years because
users kept buying them. they also kept the ipad 2 around for a few
years because users kept buying them too.


Those were for .edu sales...and the early retina display models had
a pretty steep price markup, which motivated some customers to sidestep
them, just as is being done of late with the non-touchbar MBP's.


nope. there was no restriction on who could buy them.

edu did buy a lot because of the price, but so did non-edu customers.


What I wrote isn't contradicted by what you said.


Meantime, the MacBook & iMac have gone 400+ days since last
refresh and could use the already-shipping Coffee Lake CPUs
currently being sold in the MBP's. About the only rational
justification for not having already released them is that
the world's biggest corporation by Market Cap can't afford to
have enough people to walk & chew gum at the same time, so
they're staggering their rollouts (and drawing down existing
inventory too), even though from a calendar schedule standpoint,
it means that Apple has already missed the back-to-school sales
bump and is now also quite likely to miss the Christmas sales
bubble (again) too.

Yup, its all Intel's fault! /S

i said partly intel.


While trying to imply that it was the majority fault. So then,
care to put a percentage on it? 10%, sure, but no way in hell
is it more than 25%.


yes way in hell. apple can't ship what intel can't make, and in the
volumes apple needs.


Noted previously:

"[the mini's] CPU is Intel's 5th Generation "Haswell", and since then, Intel has shipped:
6th Gen - Broadwell (1Q2015)
7th Gen - Skylane (4Q2015) & Kaby Lake (3Q2016)
8th Gen - Coffee Lake (1Q2018) ..."

Intel was there - - so where was Apple? Asleep at the switch, trying
to use the excuse that the products weren't selling well for any reason
other than they had become decrepitly out of date while never having
their prices slashed to match the market.


and keep in mind that there's a processor change brewing.


Yeah, I've heard those rumors too. Knowing how Apple likes
to vertically integrate, there's chance, but the problem with
it is that it takes 2+ years for the software vendors to all
provide updates to make a new workflow actually better; BTDT x3.


nonsense. for most developers, it's little more than recompiling and
testing.


They still got to go do it....

....and as I pointed out, even Apple hasn't done a good job in finishing
even getting all of their OS-supplied Apps up to 64 bit.


ios apps are already compiled for x86 and arm.

for apps on the app store, developers won't even need to do the first
part because apple's bitcode can build the appropriate binary on the
fly.

more complex apps may need additional work, but certainly not 2-3 years
worth.


How long did it take Adobe to give Mac Photoshop 64-bit support?


obviously, anything that relies on specifics about the x86 instruction
set or hardware will need more effort, but very, very few apps fall
into that category.


In the meantime, customers have to cope with deoptimal code klunges
that make the "better" hardware not run as good as the old stuff..

....which is precisely what's happened historically on each of Apple's
prior major CPU architecture changes.


apple's a11 and a12 chips in their iphones are benchmarking in the
range of macbooks, in some cases better, and that's with a chip
designed to run on a small battery in a pocket sized device.


Still doesn't solve the Application software problem. And given how
Apple is struggling to get even their own core Apps up to 64 bit
clean before they EOL themselves, the prospects of a new CPU change
not being an utter disaster are pretty damn low.


nonsense.


You clearly don't keep up well on the real Apple news, for it was but just
three months ago (June 2018), Apple finally got around to updating OSX's
DVD player app to be 64-bit compliant:

http://www.applemust.com/rejoice-apple-will-let-you-play-dvds-on-mojave-macs/


an arm chip designed for a laptop or desktop, not limited to the
thermals, power and size constraints of a phone, would be much better..


If you set your bar low enough, anything is possible. So how
about an Apple ARM that can take on a Xeon class that would be
suitable for a Mac Pro desktop?


how about no straw men.

nobody is expecting arm chips to debut in a mac pro.


No, your name isn't "nobody"; it is "nospam".


the most likely place is in a future macbook air or mac mini. the
latter could even be the size of the existing apple tv.


Then let it go run iOS and not meddle in content creation workflows.


another part is that the industry has changed and desktops and laptops
have taken a back seat to mobile, and not just apple. the iphone is the
largest part of apple's revenue, so that's what gets the most
attention.

Yet the Mac still is more profitable than the iPad product line,
despite how the latter gets updates ... and advertising.

mobile is the future.


" Ċ* PCs are going to be like trucks. They're still going to be around,
they're still going to have a lot of value, but they're going to be
used by one out of X people"
- Steve Jobs, 2010


yep


Yet there's still no truck. Just fanboys trying to claim that a big shiny turd
called an iMac "Pro" is everyone's workflow panacea. /S


And what we're learning about how the public is applying mobile,
particularly under iOS, is that mobile is for content _consumption_
much more so than it is about content _creation_.


nope.

most people are consumers, regardless of platform.

however, those who do create can *easily* do so on ios.


Except that doing so is even easier with other UIs.


ios is getting most of the attention.


As a consumption platform.


imovie, photoshop and thousands of other apps say nope.


iMovie, like iPhoto and iWeb ... are dead to Apple.

And even though Photoshop has become a rent-based cash cow for Adobe,
it exists more so today because they went platform agnostic so that they
wouldn't have to tolerate Apple's inconsistencies.




aperture was a complete market failure.

the majority of mac users chose lightroom over aperture. products that
fail in the marketplace are normally canceled.

when aperture first came out, it was *very* slow. apple said not to use
it on anything slower than a powermac. its speed got better in later
versions but it still was slower than lightroom and also lacked the
seamless integration with photoshop and raw support wasn't as fast as
from adobe. apple cut the price of aperture more than once, but nothing
could save it. it's surprising it lasted as long as it did.


More excuse making, particularly since the bang-up job that Apple
did with Final Cut serves to illustrate what they can do in the way
of non-crappy software writing when it has leadership attention &
support.


it's not an excuse. lightroom won the battle from the very beginning
and apple decided their resources were better spent elsewhere.


LR has had its problems too ... Apple poured tons of money into other
endeavors and tortured their Aperture customers with a long lingering
death.


photos is much better than iphoto and *significantly* faster. photos
was never intended to be a replacement for aperture, which is where
most of the complaints come from. its for casual users, not photo
enthusiasts.


photos is faster...but that's it. it still can't even do today what
iPhoto did back in 2015, particularly in terms of DAM.


nonsense. it handles larger libraries and muuuuuuch faster.


There isn't an iOS device made that can support my libraries.

however, it's *not* a pro level tool. for that, get lightroom.


Already have it, fanboy.

And that's a workflow where Adobe is helping me to become OS-agnostic
so that I have options other than being held hostage to the whims of Apple.



As such, it
wasn't even a decent replacement for iPhoto, let alone Aperture.
The only reason why photos hasn't gotten totally slammed is because
most customers today are iOS based casual users who've never used
anything better.


no, it's because casual users don't *need* anything better.

those who do need something better overwhelmingly chose lightroom over
aperture and never even considered iphoto or photos.


With the real reason why was because they were already on Windows.
And more are switching every day because Apple's inaction and failure
to cultivate existing relationships has effectively told their photo-centric
customer market to go **** off.

As I said ... disenchanted customer & increasingly cynical APPL stockholder,
as I do see Cook driving the company off a cliff for a likely fatal crash.


-hh
  #22  
Old September 18th 18, 03:17 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default One photog's not so great experience with Apple

In article , -hh
wrote:

Now some people will try to blame
Intel for this (see below), but that doesn't excuse bugs in the OS,
or defective motherboards (see iPhone 8 recall), and the all-too-many
other recent examples of Apple shipping "beta" quality products.

those are separate issues, especially the iphone 8, which doesn't use
an intel x86 processor. some versions have an intel baseband but that's
entirely different.

That Apple is having such problems across all of their product
lines ... including those without Intel CPUs ... means that the
common problem isn't one supplier (Intel), but at Apple.


apple isn't having such problems across all of their product lines.


Listen to yourself! Its like saying that a car with three flat tires is
just "doing fine".


nonsense.

apple sells hundreds of millions of devices per year. nothing is
perfect and a small number will have problems, no different than other
companies. overall, the defect rate is very low.



Particularly since in the meantime, there's been other companies who sell
similarly small form factor desktop PCs who _have_ been able to keep their
hardware designs up-to-date.


macbooks and imacs were recently updated, which are about 90% of mac
sales.


And design-wise, the mini is nothing more than just a repackaged Macbook,
which incurs minimal developmental & deployment costs.


nonsense.

the imac pro is well ahead of what pcs have to offer at similar prices.


Depends on what's important to one's workflow & needs as to if it is better
or not.


yep.

If you want a beautiful screen but with obscene internal storage
prices, and zero repairability, the iMac Pro is for you.


the screen is nice, however, the storage prices are not obscene and if
it fails, bring it to an apple store and they'll fix it.

very little these days can be repaired by the user.

try fixing a microsoft surface laptop. opening it up will destroy it.

https://www.theverge.com/2017/6/17/1...face-teardown-
ifixit-impossible-repair
Microsoftıs Surface computers have never scored particularly well
when it comes to repairability ‹ look no further than its Surface
Book from a couple of years ago, which scored a 1/10 rating. This new
computer scores even worse: 0/10. iFixit reports that the laptop
isnıt designed to be repaired, and users canıt upgrade individual
components like the CPU, Ram or storage because theyıre soldered to
the motherboard.

Their verdict? ³Itıs a glue-filled monstrosity. There is nothing
about it that is upgradable or long-lasting, and it literally canıt
be opened without destroying it.²


nothing comes close to the performance of the latest iphones. even last
year's iphones were beating the competition.


Better is the enemy of good enough. What I need from my iPhones (yes, that's
plural)
is better battery life, not faster frame rates to play games.


iphones already have exceptionally good battery life, much better than
most android phones.

since people charge their phone every night, it only needs to last a
full day with some remaining so there's no battery anxiety, which it
definitely does.

iphones typically get 2 days on a single charge, so it's not an issue
unless someone is away from all sources of power for an extended period
of time, something that is extremely unlikely.

however, if they are on that mythical deserted island, they can always
bring a usb battery (and will need it for charging other devices too).


Oh, and dual SIMs (real ones, not an eSIM) for use when on international
travel
to take advantage of non-outrageous local cellular costs would be nice too.


esims are *far* better for the user, which is why the carriers are
fighting it so hard. they do not want to lose their tight grip on the
customer.

in an ideal world, all phones/tablets would have esims and physical
sims would be a thing of the past.

physical sims take up a lot of space in a device that is already highly
space constrained. that space could better be used for other stuff,
such as a bigger battery you said you wanted.

The
first time that I had a $1500 monthly bill was quite fun trying to get
accounting
to approve it.


user error.



apple admitted they made a mistake with the trashcan mac pro.

Way back in April 2017, so where the **** is its replacement already?


18 months is not very long.
apple's product cycles are 2-3 years.


And 2-3 years from when the Trash Can first shipped in 2013 is ... 2-3 years
ago.

That it took them so long to 'fess up to having screwed up is a sign of bad
leadership.


at the time of its release, it was very good, but it turned out to be a
mistake. nobody is perfect.

every company makes mistakes, apple is no exception. they've admitted
it and are working on the next version.

at least it wasn't as bad as the microsoft kin, which was canceled a
month after it was announced, along with multiple ****ups with windows
phone.

or the samsung galaxy note 7, where the risk of fire was *very* high.

Keep in mind that it only took Apple six (6) months to ship "Yikes!".


that wasn't a complete redesign and an entirely different era.


As if it requires a "complete redesign" for them to replace the guts of the
"cheese grater" a third time. /S Because there's _still_ nothing wrong
with the pre-trashcan Mac Pro design, other than Apple not wanting to.


there's plenty wrong with it.

the cheese grater was an ok design 15 years ago. today it's *awful*.
there is *no* need for a 40 pound computer.

The longer that a next Mac Pro doesn't ship - - the bigger of a disaster it
is going
to be, with a closed and non-maintainable architecture that's only good for
Apple.


nonsense.

they've been working on a redesigned mac pro, which will probably be
announced next year sometime.

No, they've *said* that they're working on it. And there still isn't
any firm release date, so it is classical vaporware.


are you accusing apple of making false and misleading statements?


Nope - merely repeating what Apple Fanboys have said about Apple's
competitors for the past twenty years.

Prove me wrong by citing the release date that Apple has published in a
Press Release that's archived on Apple's website. Unless you can produce
that, the words are just more vaporware.


nobody said there was an exact release date.

apple *has* said they are working on a new mac pro.

if you think that statement is false, then provide proof.




The MacBook Air isn't a spring chicken either; its running on
a Broadwell CPU from 2015, and its last "update" was merely a
cull of base specifications to options, and decreasing the
manufacturing line from six discrete models to two.

except that it's still selling quite well. not everyone needs
top of the line.

Try keeping your excuses consistent:
* the mini isn't being updated because it isn't selling well
* the air isn't being updated because it _is_ selling well


they're not excuses and it's two different products.


The rationalization attempt is still a flagrant self-contradiction.


there is no rationalization.

i said the air *was* updated, just not at the same price point, so they
kept the old air around, which is an extremely popular product.


The air's last "update" was to kill off the 11" and to make the previously
optional 13" version the new base version. That's why they went from
six part#s to just two.


the retina macbook is the macbook air replacement, except for the
price, which is why the air is still being sold.




apple kept the 2012 non-retina macbook around for a few years because
users kept buying them. they also kept the ipad 2 around for a few
years because users kept buying them too.

Those were for .edu sales...and the early retina display models had
a pretty steep price markup, which motivated some customers to sidestep
them, just as is being done of late with the non-touchbar MBP's.


nope. there was no restriction on who could buy them.

edu did buy a lot because of the price, but so did non-edu customers.


What I wrote isn't contradicted by what you said.


you said it was for edu sales. it wasn't. it was for anyone who wanted
to buy it.

it happened that edu was among those who wanted to buy it, however,
that was *not* why the product existed.

the emac was originally edu only, except that non-edu customer demand
was high enough where apple decided to sell it to anyone. that is not
the case here.

more recently, the logitech crayon was edu only, and only this past
month was it made available to non-edu.


and keep in mind that there's a processor change brewing.

Yeah, I've heard those rumors too. Knowing how Apple likes
to vertically integrate, there's chance, but the problem with
it is that it takes 2+ years for the software vendors to all
provide updates to make a new workflow actually better; BTDT x3.


nonsense. for most developers, it's little more than recompiling and
testing.


They still got to go do it....

...and as I pointed out, even Apple hasn't done a good job in finishing
even getting all of their OS-supplied Apps up to 64 bit.


nonsense.

ios apps are already compiled for x86 and arm.

for apps on the app store, developers won't even need to do the first
part because apple's bitcode can build the appropriate binary on the
fly.

more complex apps may need additional work, but certainly not 2-3 years
worth.


How long did it take Adobe to give Mac Photoshop 64-bit support?


very bad example.

adobe was caught off guard when apple canceled 64 bit carbon, forcing
them to move to cocoa a *lot* faster than they had originally planned,
adding unexpected delays.

that is not applicable to an arm transition, especially store apps.

also keep in mind that apple is in a position where they could license
x86 for a future chip of their own design.

a better example would be the intel transition, where apple said one
adobe engineer was able to get photoshop mostly working in a weekend.

the reality is that most apps need little more than a recompile for 64
bit, assuming the developers used the standard apis which handle word
lengths and endianness. if they didn't, then they have only themselves
to blame for the mess they created. it's not apple's fault that some
programmers don't know what they're doing.

obviously, anything that relies on specifics about the x86 instruction
set or hardware will need more effort, but very, very few apps fall
into that category.


In the meantime, customers have to cope with deoptimal code klunges
that make the "better" hardware not run as good as the old stuff..

...which is precisely what's happened historically on each of Apple's
prior major CPU architecture changes.


nonsense.

the 68k emulation on powerpc was about as perfect as it could be,
emulating 68k so well that even low level debuggers worked without
issue.

68k apps also ran faster on a powermac under emulation than they did on
a 68k mac for all sorts of reasons, with the second version of the
emulator being even faster.

apple's a11 and a12 chips in their iphones are benchmarking in the
range of macbooks, in some cases better, and that's with a chip
designed to run on a small battery in a pocket sized device.

Still doesn't solve the Application software problem. And given how
Apple is struggling to get even their own core Apps up to 64 bit
clean before they EOL themselves, the prospects of a new CPU change
not being an utter disaster are pretty damn low.


nonsense.


You clearly don't keep up well on the real Apple news, for it was but just
three months ago (June 2018), Apple finally got around to updating OSX's
DVD player app to be 64-bit compliant:


so what?

32 bit apps work fine and will continue to work fine until *next* year.
apple has plenty of time, as do other developers.

you might have noticed that macs no longer have a dvd player, which
means the need for it is almost zero. apple could remove the app
entirely and most people would never notice.







And what we're learning about how the public is applying mobile,
particularly under iOS, is that mobile is for content _consumption_
much more so than it is about content _creation_.


nope.

most people are consumers, regardless of platform.

however, those who do create can *easily* do so on ios.


Except that doing so is even easier with other UIs.


not necessarily.

some things are easier on a tablet and others are easier on a desktop,
for both consumption and creation.

nothing is perfect for every situation.

ios is getting most of the attention.

As a consumption platform.


imovie, photoshop and thousands of other apps say nope.


iMovie, like iPhoto and iWeb ... are dead to Apple.


iweb is, but imovie and iphoto (now photos) are not.

adobe has announced that the full version of photoshop is coming to
ios. that's certainly not a consumption app.

And even though Photoshop has become a rent-based cash cow for Adobe,
it exists more so today because they went platform agnostic so that they
wouldn't have to tolerate Apple's inconsistencies.


nonsense.


it's not an excuse. lightroom won the battle from the very beginning
and apple decided their resources were better spent elsewhere.


LR has had its problems too


nothing is perfect.

... Apple poured tons of money into other
endeavors and tortured their Aperture customers with a long lingering
death.


yep. apple should have killed off aperture much earlier than they did,
but that would have ****ed off even more people.

photos is much better than iphoto and *significantly* faster. photos
was never intended to be a replacement for aperture, which is where
most of the complaints come from. its for casual users, not photo
enthusiasts.

photos is faster...but that's it. it still can't even do today what
iPhoto did back in 2015, particularly in terms of DAM.


nonsense. it handles larger libraries and muuuuuuch faster.


There isn't an iOS device made that can support my libraries.


who said anything about ios, and you're not apple's only customer
anyway.



however, it's *not* a pro level tool. for that, get lightroom.


Already have it, fanboy.


resorting to ad hominems means you have nothing.

And that's a workflow where Adobe is helping me to become OS-agnostic
so that I have options other than being held hostage to the whims of Apple.


you're not apple's only customer.

buy something else if you want. nobody gives a ****.

As such, it
wasn't even a decent replacement for iPhoto, let alone Aperture.
The only reason why photos hasn't gotten totally slammed is because
most customers today are iOS based casual users who've never used
anything better.


no, it's because casual users don't *need* anything better.

those who do need something better overwhelmingly chose lightroom over
aperture and never even considered iphoto or photos.


With the real reason why was because they were already on Windows.


nope.

on *just* the mac, where aperture had a significant home field
advantage, lightroom was still the preferred choice.

as i said, aperture was so slow when it came out that apple said it was
only for powermacs. meanwhile, lightroom ran quite well on low end
macs, faster than aperture did on top of the line macs.

And more are switching every day because Apple's inaction and failure
to cultivate existing relationships has effectively told their photo-centric
customer market to go **** off.


also wrong.

As I said ... disenchanted customer & increasingly cynical APPL stockholder,
as I do see Cook driving the company off a cliff for a likely fatal crash.


put your money where your mouth is and sell your entire holdings.

you won't.
  #23  
Old September 18th 18, 05:02 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
RJH
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 228
Default One photog's not so great experience with Apple

On 18/09/2018 15:17, nospam wrote:
In article , -hh
wrote:

snip

apple isn't having such problems across all of their product lines.


Listen to yourself! Its like saying that a car with three flat tires is
just "doing fine".


nonsense.

apple sells hundreds of millions of devices per year. nothing is
perfect and a small number will have problems, no different than other
companies. overall, the defect rate is very low.


But that user had problems with consecutive devices. Given that the odds
of a defective device are small, several in a row takes you in to the
realms of fantasy. I think something else is at work.


--
Cheers, Rob
  #24  
Old September 18th 18, 05:31 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default One photog's not so great experience with Apple

In article , RJH wrote:


But that user had problems with consecutive devices. Given that the odds
of a defective device are small, several in a row takes you in to the
realms of fantasy. I think something else is at work.


it's extremely unlikely to get multiple lemons in a row, but it's also
not zero.

it also is not unique to apple:

https://www.dell.com/community/Custo...TERS-2-LEMONS/
td-p/4743361
2 DELL COMPUTERS = 2 LEMONS
I purchased my first dell a year ago, within a few months the
touchpad was inoperable.* I own my own business, purchased through
the small business department, I begged to have the computer
replaced.* Two months later, I finally received a new computer after
four repair attempts.* Opened the new box this week: 1)* the keypad
is not functional (adds spaces eliminates spaces at will) 2) the
mouse/cursor takes over the computer by itself and runs around the
page opening things and* jerks around spontaneously 3) when multiple
windows are open everything shakes and 4) when scrolling the monitor
cuts out and goes to black over and over.* I have spent 900.00 and I
have yet to have a computer* one year later that works.**

https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/co...will_not_stand
_behind_my_two_thinkpad_p50/
FYI not all Thinkpads are tanks and deserving of their reputation.. I
own a small software business. I have owned 2 thinkpads in the past
that have been rock solid. Last Feb two of my developers needed new
laptops, so I ordered them 2 geeked out P50s, confident that these
machine would last them 3 years. Both of these machines have been
absolute lemons and now that the warranty has expired Lenovo is
refusing to fix or replace them. Both have have been sent in for
repairs 4 times in less than a year. One is completely dead and the
other is on the brink of dying(When you shut if off it won't turn
back on unless you take the battery out first). So basically at this
point I have spent 4.5K on one brick and one soon to be brick. I am
done with Thinkpads and Lenovo.

https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/DROID-T...ltiple-Replace
ment-Phones-Looking-for-Help/td-p/3609782
I orignally sent my phone in under warranty about a month ago for a
green line one screen and had the advanced replacement and they sent
out another.* The new device had a loose item in the speaker area
that would rattle upon vibration.* I called upon the second time and
received another device.* Upon receiving this device the back was not
fully adheadered. It would lift and you could push it back down but
it would lift again.* I just received a 3rd device and the flash on
the phone is not properly aligned and there is a rattle around this
area as well.* I was trying to receive a different and new device to
stop having to receive the device, transfer data, and go to the post
office every week.* If I could please get some help above the phone
as they seemed rather unhelpful.
  #25  
Old September 18th 18, 08:31 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
-hh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 838
Default One photog's not so great experience with Apple

On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 10:17:28 AM UTC-4, nospam wrote:
-hh wrote:

Now some people will try to blame
Intel for this (see below), but that doesn't excuse bugs in the OS,
or defective motherboards (see iPhone 8 recall), and the all-too-many
other recent examples of Apple shipping "beta" quality products..

those are separate issues, especially the iphone 8, which doesn't use
an intel x86 processor. some versions have an intel baseband but that's
entirely different.

That Apple is having such problems across all of their product
lines ... including those without Intel CPUs ... means that the
common problem isn't one supplier (Intel), but at Apple.

apple isn't having such problems across all of their product lines.


Listen to yourself! Its like saying that a car with three flat tires is
just "doing fine".


nonsense.

apple sells hundreds of millions of devices per year. nothing is
perfect and a small number will have problems, no different than other
companies. overall, the defect rate is very low.


Yet seemingly every time that Apple has any problem, it causes
a huge PR crisis. Upon further investigation, its usually found
that Apple caused most of the problem themselves, due to elements
such as no transparency with their customer on their unilateral
decision to throttle performance based on battery health, etc.


Particularly since in the meantime, there's been other companies who sell
similarly small form factor desktop PCs who _have_ been able to keep their
hardware designs up-to-date.

macbooks and imacs were recently updated, which are about 90% of mac
sales.


And design-wise, the mini is nothing more than just a repackaged Macbook,
which incurs minimal developmental & deployment costs.


nonsense.


They were, but the laptops have gotten upgrades. And largely the
iMac had traditionally been no better - there were years where
iMac customers griped about it having "mobile" class components
(particularly GPUs) which were limiting the performance potential
of a plug-into-the-wall desktop system.


the imac pro is well ahead of what pcs have to offer at similar prices.


Depends on what's important to one's workflow & needs as to if it is better
or not.


yep.

If you want a beautiful screen but with obscene internal storage
prices, and zero repairability, the iMac Pro is for you.


the screen is nice, however, the storage prices are not obscene...


Apple is asking $700-$800 per TB, which is roughly double the street
retail for M.2 NVMe sticks (which have just as good of bandwidth
when they're also RAID0'ed).

... and if it fails, bring it to an apple store and they'll fix it.


Where the cost of repair will be higher when the damn SSD has been
soldered in place on the motherboard.

Plus their new T2 chip also means that all data is encrypted and
therefore irrecoverable...better pray that your backup is good enough:

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/274021-it-might-be-impossible-to-recover-data-from-a-2018-macbook-if-the-logic-board-fails

Plus Apple still doesn't offer Enterprise class on-site service at any price.

Really raising the bar there on customer focus /S

very little these days can be repaired by the user.
try fixing a microsoft surface laptop. opening it up will destroy it.


In the meantime, all current & recent generation MacBook Pros when
replacing the defective keyboard incurs a motherboard replacement too.

https://www.theverge.com/2017/6/17/1...face-teardown-
ifixit-impossible-repair
Microsoftąs Surface computers have never scored particularly well
when it comes to repairability â€ı look no further than its Surface
Book from a couple of years ago, which scored a 1/10 rating. This new
computer scores even worse: 0/10. iFixit reports ...


Look in context at their list:

https://www.ifixit.com/laptop-repairability?sort=score

Okay, MS has a zero entry ... but its their only entry. In the
meantime, Apple has:

12 entries with a "1" score
+2 with a "2"
+7 more with a "4" ... but none of these are newer than 2015.
+2 more with a "7" from way back in 2011/2012.

And when looking at dates, all of the 2018 & 2017 Macs scored
no better than a "1". Its pretty damn clear that Apple's design
trend intent results in vastly decreased serviceability, which
also invariably raise customer lifecycle costs.


Their verdict? Ċ‚Itąs a glue-filled monstrosity. There is nothing
about it that is upgradable or long-lasting, and it literally canąt
be opened without destroying it.˛


IIRC, the trend of glue started with Apple, specifically the MacBook Air...


nothing comes close to the performance of the latest iphones. even last
year's iphones were beating the competition.


Better is the enemy of good enough. What I need from my iPhones
(yes, that's plural) is better battery life, not faster frame
rates to play games.


iphones already have exceptionally good battery life, much better than
most android phones.


YMMV for what you consider "exceptional", for I've had instances within
the past six months where I've had to very proactively conserve power
(by completely shutting down) merely because of a day being made longer
by a few time zones. I've also had surprises of "got to plug it in
during the drive home" because it was already in low battery mode because
it did something that sucked itself dry during the day.


since people charge their phone every night, it only needs to last a
full day with some remaining so there's no battery anxiety, which it
definitely does.


Incorrect, for it really comes down to utilization. During the 2010
Iceland Volcano fiasco, I was stuck in EU trying to arrange flights
and was recharging 3x/day.


iphones typically get 2 days on a single charge, so it's not an issue
unless someone is away from all sources of power for an extended period
of time, something that is extremely unlikely.


Two days ... if you basically don't use it. Right now its lunchtime
and my 6s is reading ~75% ... that's 25% down despite only having used
it for ~4 minutes of actual use out of my pocket this morning.
Yesterday was a low batt mode day by 5pm, despite that it hadn't been
a high utilization day.


Oh, and dual SIMs (real ones, not an eSIM) for use when on international
travel
to take advantage of non-outrageous local cellular costs would be nice too.


esims are *far* better for the user, which is why the carriers are
fighting it so hard. they do not want to lose their tight grip on the
customer.


Understood, but that day is still years off, so this is a *current*
requirement.


The first time that I had a $1500 monthly bill was quite fun
trying to get accounting to approve it.


user error.


Where the "error" was that the user actually used their phone. /S

In actuality, this is illustrating just how rude of a grip the US
Carriers have over their customers. On my recent trip to Iceland,
the prepaid SIM was unlimited talk/text & 1GB data ... for only $25.
This is not only roughly half the price that my US Carrier wanted
to charge for access, but their higher rate was for zero voice/text
and 1/5th as much data.


apple admitted they made a mistake with the trashcan mac pro.

Way back in April 2017, so where the **** is its replacement already?

18 months is not very long.
apple's product cycles are 2-3 years.


And 2-3 years from when the Trash Can first shipped in 2013
is ... 2-3 years ago.

That it took them so long to 'fess up to having screwed up is a sign
of bad leadership.


at the time of its release, it was very good, but it turned out to be a
mistake. nobody is perfect.


Where 'very good' means criticism from the non-Final Cut Pro segments
of professionals from the week it was first announced. Later, even
the FCPX customers came to bitch about fried video cards.


every company makes mistakes, apple is no exception. they've admitted
it and are working on the next version.


Per your own claim of product cycles, they knew they had a fatal
dead end design problem by 2015 ... and yet it still took them
basically another design cycle to just hold a press conference
to admit that they'd screwed up ... and as of right now today,
they should be 50% - 75% through their *third* design cycle, and
still have nothing to show for it.


at least it wasn't as bad as the microsoft kin, which was canceled
a month after it was announced....


Incorrect, since the kin didn't have an existing customer base.


or the samsung galaxy note 7, where the risk of fire was *very* high.


Except that Samsung did handle that problem openly...unlike Apple.



Keep in mind that it only took Apple six (6) months to ship "Yikes!".

that wasn't a complete redesign and an entirely different era.


As if it requires a "complete redesign" for them to replace the guts of the
"cheese grater" a third time. /S Because there's _still_ nothing wrong
with the pre-trashcan Mac Pro design, other than Apple not wanting to.


there's plenty wrong with it.

the cheese grater was an ok design 15 years ago. today it's *awful*.
there is *no* need for a 40 pound computer.


True, the cheese grater was a heavy beast, due to its thick sheets
of aluminum courtesy of Johnny Ive... but the burden of having a
heavy desktop PC is only an occasional inconvenience when it needs
to be relocated. Plus the key point in referring back to the cheese
grater isn't its weight, but the design form factor that provides
plenty of elbow room for a motherboard of varying layouts, etc.

The longer that a next Mac Pro doesn't ship - - the bigger of
a disaster it is going to be, with a closed and non-maintainable
architecture that's only good for Apple.


nonsense.


Intel routinely provides off-the-shelf reference motherboards for
their CPUs, and it isn't Rocket Science to put a case around
one of them with an SSD. So then just what has Apple been _allegedly_
working so diligently on for the past 18 (and counting) months if
it isn't some way to not build a commodity PC?


they've been working on a redesigned mac pro, which will
probably be announced next year sometime.

No, they've *said* that they're working on it. And there still
isn't any firm release date, so it is classical vaporware.

are you accusing apple of making false and misleading statements?


Nope - merely repeating what Apple Fanboys have said about Apple's
competitors for the past twenty years.

Prove me wrong by citing the release date that Apple has published in a
Press Release that's archived on Apple's website. Unless you can produce
that, the words are just more vaporware.


nobody said there was an exact release date.

apple *has* said they are working on a new mac pro.

if you think that statement is false, then provide proof.


Its still vaporware.

FYI, Apple also said that the iMac Pro would be able to have its
RAM upgraded after point of sale, even if it required Genius
installation. So just where has this promise been implemented
as available for sale in the Apple Store?

The MacBook Air isn't a spring chicken either; its running on
a Broadwell CPU from 2015, and its last "update" was merely a
cull of base specifications to options, and decreasing the
manufacturing line from six discrete models to two.

except that it's still selling quite well. not everyone needs
top of the line.

Try keeping your excuses consistent:
* the mini isn't being updated because it isn't selling well
* the air isn't being updated because it _is_ selling well

they're not excuses and it's two different products.


The rationalization attempt is still a flagrant self-contradiction.


there is no rationalization.


Its still a self-contradiction on your part.


i said the air *was* updated, just not at the same price point, so they
kept the old air around, which is an extremely popular product.


The air's last "update" was to kill off the 11" and to make the previously
optional 13" version the new base version. That's why they went from
six part#s to just two.


the retina macbook is the macbook air replacement, except for the
price, which is why the air is still being sold.


"It is, except for how it isn't" /S


apple kept the 2012 non-retina macbook around for a few years because
users kept buying them. they also kept the ipad 2 around for a few
years because users kept buying them too.

Those were for .edu sales...and the early retina display models had
a pretty steep price markup, which motivated some customers to sidestep
them, just as is being done of late with the non-touchbar MBP's.

nope. there was no restriction on who could buy them.

edu did buy a lot because of the price, but so did non-edu customers.


What I wrote isn't contradicted by what you said.


you said it was for edu sales. it wasn't. it was for anyone who wanted
to buy it.

it happened that edu was among those who wanted to buy it, however,
that was *not* why the product existed.


No, it existed because of .edu commitments and when they were no
longer obligated to have it available for .edu, they dropped it.
The commitments to .edu didn't require exclusivity, so Apple was
free to offer it to the general public...in small part because
they learned from the eMac:

the emac was originally edu only, except that non-edu customer demand
was high enough where apple decided to sell it to anyone. that is not
the case here.

more recently, the logitech crayon was edu only, and only this past
month was it made available to non-edu.

and keep in mind that there's a processor change brewing.

Yeah, I've heard those rumors too. Knowing how Apple likes
to vertically integrate, there's chance, but the problem with
it is that it takes 2+ years for the software vendors to all
provide updates to make a new workflow actually better; BTDT x3.

nonsense. for most developers, it's little more than recompiling and
testing.


They still got to go do it....

...and as I pointed out, even Apple hasn't done a good job in finishing
even getting all of their OS-supplied Apps up to 64 bit.


nonsense.


Which is why you later deleted this URL link that substantiated
that statement:

http://www.applemust.com/rejoice-apple-will-let-you-play-dvds-on-mojave-macs/


ios apps are already compiled for x86 and arm.

for apps on the app store, developers won't even need to do the first
part because apple's bitcode can build the appropriate binary on the
fly.

more complex apps may need additional work, but certainly not 2-3 years
worth.


How long did it take Adobe to give Mac Photoshop 64-bit support?


very bad example.


It still happened, though.


adobe was caught off guard when apple canceled 64 bit carbon, forcing
them to move to cocoa a *lot* faster than they had originally planned,
adding unexpected delays.


Adobe claims that they were caught off guard, but the depreciation
of carbon was still in the roadmap and here's the key point that
you're ignoring: despite Adobe being a big & well-resourced company,
it still took them a loooong time to redeploy.

Plus Adobe's corporate plan today is for a single common code base,
which has meant that any optimizations have been tailored for Intel
architecture only, and not OS specific. The ramifications of this
for an Apple proprietary ARM is that Adobe won't be optimizing for it.


that is not applicable to an arm transition, especially store apps.

also keep in mind that apple is in a position where they could license
x86 for a future chip of their own design.

a better example would be the intel transition, where apple said one
adobe engineer was able to get photoshop mostly working in a weekend.


Yet it still took Adobe 18 months after deploying Native support for
64-bit on Windows (CS4) to similarly deploy it for OS X (in CS5),
even after allegedly having been working on the OS X version during
the CS4 effort.


the reality is that most apps need little more than a recompile for 64
bit, assuming the developers used the standard apis which handle word
lengths and endianness. if they didn't, then they have only themselves
to blame for the mess they created. it's not apple's fault that some
programmers don't know what they're doing.


Power Apps find their performance where they find it, outside of approved
APIs or otherwise. Likewise, corporate profit goals will push coding
teams to neglect spending the overhead costs for code updates &
modernization until the product is clearly untenable.


obviously, anything that relies on specifics about the x86 instruction
set or hardware will need more effort, but very, very few apps fall
into that category.


In the meantime, customers have to cope with deoptimal code klunges
that make the "better" hardware not run as good as the old stuff..

...which is precisely what's happened historically on each of Apple's
prior major CPU architecture changes.


nonsense.

the 68k emulation on powerpc was about as perfect as it could be,
emulating 68k so well that even low level debuggers worked without
issue.


Perfect doesn't mean "as fast".



68k apps also ran faster on a powermac under emulation than they did on
a 68k mac for all sorts of reasons, with the second version of the
emulator being even faster.


Quite an odd claim, given that you today consider +35% and +50% gains
to be a negligible improvements not even worth bothering with...



apple's a11 and a12 chips in their iphones are benchmarking in the
range of macbooks, in some cases better, and that's with a chip
designed to run on a small battery in a pocket sized device.

Still doesn't solve the Application software problem. And given how
Apple is struggling to get even their own core Apps up to 64 bit
clean before they EOL themselves, the prospects of a new CPU change
not being an utter disaster are pretty damn low.

nonsense.


You clearly don't keep up well on the real Apple news, for it was but just
three months ago (June 2018), Apple finally got around to updating OSX's
DVD player app to be 64-bit compliant:


so what?


Merely the principle of Lead By Example.

32 bit apps work fine and will continue to work fine until *next* year.
apple has plenty of time, as do other developers.


Given that 32-to-64 bit on the Mac took Adobe eighteen months,
affording a "one year from now is plenty of time" is whistling
through the graveyard.


you might have noticed that macs no longer have a dvd player, which
means the need for it is almost zero. apple could remove the app
entirely and most people would never notice.


Just because _you_ don't in _your_ workflow ...


ios is getting most of the attention.

As a consumption platform.

imovie, photoshop and thousands of other apps say nope.


iMovie, like iPhoto and iWeb ... are dead to Apple.


iweb is, but imovie and iphoto (now photos) are not.


Photos isn't a superset of iPhoto, so it isn't a continuation.

And iMovie had its last non-maintenance update three years ago,
back in 2015. Its another example of Apple neglect.

adobe has announced that the full version of photoshop is coming
to ios. that's certainly not a consumption app.


Adobe has always been pretty savvy about market segments; time will
tell if they got this one right, or not.


And even though Photoshop has become a rent-based cash cow for Adobe,
it exists more so today because they went platform agnostic so that they
wouldn't have to tolerate Apple's inconsistencies.


nonsense.


There's a lot more Windows-based Adobe customers than there are
OSX-based ones; Adobe knows where their bread is buttered.


it's not an excuse. lightroom won the battle from the very beginning
and apple decided their resources were better spent elsewhere.


LR has had its problems too


nothing is perfect.

... Apple poured tons of money into other
endeavors and tortured their Aperture customers with a long lingering
death.


yep. apple should have killed off aperture much earlier than they did,
but that would have ****ed off even more people.


Or (gasp!) they could have actually devoted some respectable amount
of resources to it, so as to make it a viable & competitive product.

photos is much better than iphoto and *significantly* faster. photos
was never intended to be a replacement for aperture, which is where
most of the complaints come from. its for casual users, not photo
enthusiasts.

photos is faster...but that's it. it still can't even do today what
iPhoto did back in 2015, particularly in terms of DAM.

nonsense. it handles larger libraries and muuuuuuch faster.


There isn't an iOS device made that can support my libraries.


who said anything about ios, and you're not apple's only customer
anyway.


iOS is relevant to a discussion of Photos because that's its core
target audience, not OSX.

And given that I've had the iPhoto Library Upgrader tool completely
fail when trying to convert iPhoto to Photos, its ability to handle
supposedly larger libraries has no credible supporting evidence in
my book.



however, it's *not* a pro level tool. for that, get lightroom.


Already have it, fanboy.


resorting to ad hominems means you have nothing.


Well then, I'll revise the above to the following:

"Incorrect. Now just what is wrong with you for you to
have made a completely unsupported and downright arrogant
assumption about what tools I happen to use?".


And that's a workflow where Adobe is helping me to become OS-agnostic
so that I have options other than being held hostage to the whims of Apple.


you're not apple's only customer.

buy something else if you want. nobody gives a ****.


If nobody gave a ****, you wouldn't have bothered to post.
So try to prove yourself correct by not replying to this post.



As such, it
wasn't even a decent replacement for iPhoto, let alone Aperture.
The only reason why photos hasn't gotten totally slammed is because
most customers today are iOS based casual users who've never used
anything better.

no, it's because casual users don't *need* anything better.

those who do need something better overwhelmingly chose lightroom over
aperture and never even considered iphoto or photos.


With the real reason why was because they were already on Windows.


nope.

on *just* the mac, where aperture had a significant home field
advantage, lightroom was still the preferred choice.

as i said, aperture was so slow when it came out that apple said it was
only for powermacs. meanwhile, lightroom ran quite well on low end
macs, faster than aperture did on top of the line macs.


And whose fault was it that Apple couldn't optimize Apple's software
equal to (let alone better) than Adobe was optimizing Adobe's software?


And more are switching every day because Apple's inaction and failure
to cultivate existing relationships has effectively told their photo-centric
customer market to go **** off.


also wrong.


You need to talk with fewer fanboys and more photographers.

As I said ... disenchanted customer & increasingly cynical APPL stockholder,
as I do see Cook driving the company off a cliff for a likely fatal crash.


put your money where your mouth is and sell your entire holdings.
you won't.


Oh, such brash childishness!

What I've really said is that I'm no longer an APPL fanboy
who makes emotionally based decisions on the stock too.

That means that APPL needs to hold its own in my portfolio, or it
will most certainly indeed get sold off, no different than any
other investment.

And sure, I've noted that there's a growing downside risk AFAIC
with APPL that may very well result in a large, rapid decline.
That's what's resulted in a "flashing yellow" warning from my
perspective, which comes back to a personal YMMV on when to
take action based on budgets, timelines, & risk tolerances.


-hh
  #26  
Old September 19th 18, 05:21 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,611
Default One photog's not so great experience with Apple

On Mon, 17 Sep 2018 21:42:22 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

What makes you think he made it up? If what he wrote is not correct he
can be sued for gazillions.

the price comparisons were made up.

But what about the reliability problems? They are much more important.

what about them?

he got a string of lemons. he was unlucky. very unlucky.

certainly you don't think a sample size of one person is in any way
indicative of more than 1 billion apple customers worldwide, do you?


I hope not, but what are the odds against a single customer getting so
many lemons in a row?


obviously not very high, but it's also not zero.


"Not close to zero" suggests a defect rate much further away from
zero.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #27  
Old September 19th 18, 05:24 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,611
Default One photog's not so great experience with Apple

On Mon, 17 Sep 2018 18:55:42 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

--- snip ---

My new iMac with a 4.2GHz i7, 32GB DDR4, and a great 27” (5120 x 2880)
“Retina Display” has been my best Mac experience to date. For me it is
breathing new life into LR CCC, and PS CC. I have every expectation that it will
perform well.


I know the sensation. I had the same experience when I got my new
machine up and away. I suspect that getting the i1 calibration under
way on the two wider gamut screens made much of the difference.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #28  
Old September 19th 18, 07:28 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
RJH
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Posts: 228
Default One photog's not so great experience with Apple

On 18/09/2018 17:31, nospam wrote:
In article , RJH wrote:


But that user had problems with consecutive devices. Given that the odds
of a defective device are small, several in a row takes you in to the
realms of fantasy. I think something else is at work.


it's extremely unlikely to get multiple lemons in a row, but it's also
not zero.


No, of course. But he seemed to get identical issues across completely
different computers. He shows an identical graphics glitch across 2
iMacs for example.

'Preparing 3000 Keynote slides' for example suggests something of an
edge case - either say revealing a hard/software glitch, or creating a
problem.



--
Cheers, Rob
  #29  
Old September 20th 18, 12:41 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
RJH
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Posts: 228
Default One photog's not so great experience with Apple

On 19/09/2018 12:11, Whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 19 September 2018 07:28:25 UTC+1, RJH wrote:
On 18/09/2018 17:31, nospam wrote:
In article , RJH wrote:


But that user had problems with consecutive devices. Given that the odds
of a defective device are small, several in a row takes you in to the
realms of fantasy. I think something else is at work.

it's extremely unlikely to get multiple lemons in a row, but it's also
not zero.


No, of course. But he seemed to get identical issues across completely
different computers. He shows an identical graphics glitch across 2
iMacs for example.


which could be due to an external influence I;ve seen that before with monitors we has half a dozen all displaying similar shimmering.
It was done to a wallmark plug that was used creatiung internerence opnce those were stitched off everything was fine.

Incedently when I first worked here I was told that when we started up our HV lab we first had to phone the local hospital telling them we were producing a large magnetic filed which might or would affect their instruments.


Yes - that's the sort of thing I sort of thing I mean. There's cause,
coincidence, left-field variables and weird. And in this case I get a
feeling it's not the first 2.


--
Cheers, Rob
  #30  
Old September 26th 18, 08:11 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_7_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,161
Default One photog's not so great experience with Apple

On 9/17/2018 9:55 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On Sep 17, 2018, Eric Stevens wrote
(in ):

On Mon, 17 Sep 2018 16:32:22 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On Sep 17, 2018, MC wrote
(in article ):

-hh wrote:

But please entertain us with how I'm supposedly "envious",
particularly in light of how I've expressed frustration at the lack
of a viable new Mac Pro to replace my current ones...as well as how
for my workflow use case, a Windows PC would save me ~$2K per seat.
Sure, OS X is nice, but is it still ~$2K worth of nice?

It seems that "Apple envy" is the only comback these two Apple fanbois
have in their armoury when it comes to describing anybody who even
slightly disses their beloved Apple. They must lay awake all night
fretting that anyone should dare cast negative comment.

As an Apple user, I have no issue with folks who choose to use other
operating systems. However, It seems that there are individuals who relish announcing
negative reports regarding Apple products when they have no flesh in the
game. This is particularly irritating when my experience has been counter to any
of the reported issues. I had an iPhone 6+ which has never had any of the
battery issues (my step-daughter is using it now, still without issue, and I am now
using an iPhone 8+). I have used Apple computers since 1983, and iMacs, and
various Apple laptops since 1998. They have been the trouble free host to
Lightroom, Photoshop, and other photography related apps in all the time I
have used them. Personally I see much of the reporting of the imminent demise of
Apple products as unwarranted FUD.

As for “Apple envy”, that is not my argument. I would say that it is
more a case of Apple ignorance as means of justifying choices users of other
systems have made.

They do say that those in denial are the one to bite hardest in the
hope all it will all go away. In this instant, denial that Apple are
becoming very ordinary in the tech world and that they are still paying
a premium for the privilage to stay on the Apple mediocrity carousel.

...and yet in all the time I have used Apple products I have not
experienced any of this “Apple mediocrity”, and I have been more than happy to pay that
“premium" for my smooth, and trouble free Apple experience. So on my part
there has been nothing to deny. That was not my experience using Windows
machines at work, nor was it the experience of co-workers using Windows.

As I have said elsewhere, I have not had to use a Windows machine since I
retired in Feb. 2009, and for that I am thankful.


I accept and understand all this. I can only hope that the reliability
of your new Apple purchase will be as good as your previus Apple
devices.


So far, so good.

My new iMac with a 4.2GHz i7, 32GB DDR4, and a great 27” (5120 x 2880)
“Retina Display” has been my best Mac experience to date. For me it is
breathing new life into LR CCC, and PS CC. I have every expectation that it will
perform well.



Enjoy it.

--
PeterN
 




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