$6000 budget

I am limiting my suggestions to true MF which means no 645, and I'm also
limiting to my personal hands-on experience.

Shooting loose (handheld, monopod) seems to be the key here. The 6x6 'blad
with the *45 degree finder is about the only way I can be 'loose' with that
camera, otherwise it's a pain compared to the Pentax 67 which is, truly, an
ergonomic fast-handling, eye-level SLR. I liked the Pentax 67 a lot and
consider it a good camera for hand-held use. It's not so good for tripod use
(imho).

Another camera I like a lot for handheld wide-angle use in bright light is
the Veriwide with the 47mm F5.6 (not F8) lens.

* The Kiev NC-2 finder for the Hasselblad 500 (for example) is a
surprisingly good finder. Save lots of money. Buy one. You sure don't need a
metering finder. It's as big as another camera.

That's my two-bits. Hope it helps.

I am limiting my suggestions to true MF which means no 645, and I'm also
limiting to my personal hands-on experience.

Shooting loose (handheld, monopod) seems to be the key here. The 6x6 'blad
with the *45 degree finder is about the only way I can be 'loose' with that
camera, otherwise it's a pain compared to the Pentax 67 which is, truly, an
ergonomic fast-handling, eye-level SLR. I liked the Pentax 67 a lot and
consider it a good camera for hand-held use. It's not so good for tripod use
(imho).

Another camera I like a lot for handheld wide-angle use in bright light is
the Veriwide with the 47mm F5.6 (not F8) lens.

* The Kiev NC-2 finder for the Hasselblad 500 (for example) is a
surprisingly good finder. Save lots of money. Buy one. You sure don't need a
metering finder. It's as big as another camera.

That's my two-bits. Hope it helps.

Martin Francis wrote:

SNIP

I like available light, though flash isn't out of the question. Portraiture
is likely to be the primary application, though I won't rule out any others
(bar weddings). In general I prefer to get lose in to my subjects.
Handholding and monopods will be the order of the day, and non-SLR viewing
is not to my taste. I've researched extensively Hassy 503s, 553s and 20xs,

I own Hassy and have shot extensively w/many other systems. You have,
IMHO, conflicting requirements. Your desire for handheld "active"
photography is better met with a Mamiya 7 than any SLR. I shot
extensively with an M7 for a week and it is an absolutely fabulous
camera unless you absolutely MUST have SLR. A RF will be easier to focus
in low light and generally quicker to handle in the shooting situations
you describe. For the amount of money at your disposal you should be
able to get a couple bodies and a couple lenses (used).

That said, I do love my 'Blad. But I do NOT shoot people, I do NOT
shoot handheld (much), and I do NOT shoot low light. In a perfect
world I would have both the 'Blad and an M7 - different tools for
different jobs. I don't have that kind of money

Oh ... and the larger neg on the M7 just blows away anything you
can do in 6x6. The M7 has superb optics (the 43mm is simply
breathtaking) and provides tack sharp/very contrasty negs that are
every bit the equal (subjectively) of the Hassy lenses ... on a much
bigger neg - esp. if you are printing rectangular.

Just my 0.00001 Euro's worth...



--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk
PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/

Martin Francis wrote:

SNIP

I like available light, though flash isn't out of the question. Portraiture
is likely to be the primary application, though I won't rule out any others
(bar weddings). In general I prefer to get lose in to my subjects.
Handholding and monopods will be the order of the day, and non-SLR viewing
is not to my taste. I've researched extensively Hassy 503s, 553s and 20xs,

I own Hassy and have shot extensively w/many other systems. You have,
IMHO, conflicting requirements. Your desire for handheld "active"
photography is better met with a Mamiya 7 than any SLR. I shot
extensively with an M7 for a week and it is an absolutely fabulous
camera unless you absolutely MUST have SLR. A RF will be easier to focus
in low light and generally quicker to handle in the shooting situations
you describe. For the amount of money at your disposal you should be
able to get a couple bodies and a couple lenses (used).

That said, I do love my 'Blad. But I do NOT shoot people, I do NOT
shoot handheld (much), and I do NOT shoot low light. In a perfect
world I would have both the 'Blad and an M7 - different tools for
different jobs. I don't have that kind of money

Oh ... and the larger neg on the M7 just blows away anything you
can do in 6x6. The M7 has superb optics (the 43mm is simply
breathtaking) and provides tack sharp/very contrasty negs that are
every bit the equal (subjectively) of the Hassy lenses ... on a much
bigger neg - esp. if you are printing rectangular.

Just my 0.00001 Euro's worth...



--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk
PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/

the bad news is there is no one camera system that does it all well ;-(
the good news is that you have enough $ to "mix and match" systems to
better fit your needs, esp. in today's buyer's market for MF SLR gear ;-)

you should probably consider renting some of the systems or borrowing them
and trying them out. (see http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/rental.html ) Ergonomics
are MUCH more important than differences in lenses, IMHO ;-)

Portraiture is often tricky with MF SLRs - and RFs ;-) Some of the highest
dollar RFs have only modest close focusing limits, making them less than
ideal for tight head shots. Ditto, many MF SLRs have modest close focus
limits, so much so that users often resort to using thin extension tubes
or bellows mount lenses when doing portraiture requiring such shots. So
check specific lens specs (see www.bhphotovideo.com for example specs on
MF) and user comments carefully to avoid portraiture limitation surprises!

I like the hassy SWC/M (and my veriwide, when shooting 35mm SLRs) as a
general wide shooting camera. Minimal focusing, if you can't touch it, it
is in focus ;-) My favorite portrait lens is the kowa 110mm macro, but
that is an obsolete system (aka poor man's hasselblad) ;-)

You also need to figure out how huge the cost of related items may add up
to be; are you going to do your own developing? digital scanning and
printing? good tripods cost alot! camera backs can be amazingly pricey
for an empty shell and a few gears (check out new prices on hassy backs!
;-)

You also need to figure out how long it will take before you can begin to
take photos, at #300 euros/mo., it can take a while to buy an SLR setup.

Finally, my usual advice is to buy a used decent MF SLR to learn on, and
find out what you really need, then sell the " " for nearly what you paid
for it and buy what you now know you need ;-) This is "catch22" see
http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/catch22.html

hth bobm
--
************************************************** *********************
* Robert Monaghan POB 752182 Southern Methodist Univ. Dallas Tx 75275 *
********************Standard Disclaimers Apply*************************

the bad news is there is no one camera system that does it all well ;-(
the good news is that you have enough $ to "mix and match" systems to
better fit your needs, esp. in today's buyer's market for MF SLR gear ;-)

you should probably consider renting some of the systems or borrowing them
and trying them out. (see http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/rental.html ) Ergonomics
are MUCH more important than differences in lenses, IMHO ;-)

Portraiture is often tricky with MF SLRs - and RFs ;-) Some of the highest
dollar RFs have only modest close focusing limits, making them less than
ideal for tight head shots. Ditto, many MF SLRs have modest close focus
limits, so much so that users often resort to using thin extension tubes
or bellows mount lenses when doing portraiture requiring such shots. So
check specific lens specs (see www.bhphotovideo.com for example specs on
MF) and user comments carefully to avoid portraiture limitation surprises!

I like the hassy SWC/M (and my veriwide, when shooting 35mm SLRs) as a
general wide shooting camera. Minimal focusing, if you can't touch it, it
is in focus ;-) My favorite portrait lens is the kowa 110mm macro, but
that is an obsolete system (aka poor man's hasselblad) ;-)

You also need to figure out how huge the cost of related items may add up
to be; are you going to do your own developing? digital scanning and
printing? good tripods cost alot! camera backs can be amazingly pricey
for an empty shell and a few gears (check out new prices on hassy backs!
;-)

You also need to figure out how long it will take before you can begin to
take photos, at #300 euros/mo., it can take a while to buy an SLR setup.

Finally, my usual advice is to buy a used decent MF SLR to learn on, and
find out what you really need, then sell the " " for nearly what you paid
for it and buy what you now know you need ;-) This is "catch22" see
http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/catch22.html

hth bobm
--
************************************************** *********************
* Robert Monaghan POB 752182 Southern Methodist Univ. Dallas Tx 75275 *
********************Standard Disclaimers Apply*************************

$6000 is good money. Get yourself a Hasselblad or Mamiya 7. One of
them is surely better than any other option.

J.

"Martin Francis" wrote in message ...
I am now virtually camera free, with only a prosumer d/c and 35mm point and
shoot to my name... and now i'm planning for the future. I hope that within
the next twelve months i'll be able to get together enough money for some
serious kit. I have experience with both the Bronica ETRSi and Hasselblad
500CM, and like them both (although the Bronica feels far too flimsy).

I like available light, though flash isn't out of the question. Portraiture
is likely to be the primary application, though I won't rule out any others
(bar weddings). In general I prefer to get lose in to my subjects.
Handholding and monopods will be the order of the day, and non-SLR viewing
is not to my taste. I've researched extensively Hassy 503s, 553s and 20xs,
Rollei 6006 and 6008, and Mamiya RB/RZ. Mamiya RZ would be ideal, but it's a
little heavy. Fast glass would be great, but not absolutely necessary (maybe
with the option to buy later). Obsolete systems are out of the question as I
want this stuff to last me a while. I owned an Eastern European 6x6cm SLR
for a while and will not be going back, either :-).

My budget is assuming I can save £300+ per month over 12 months, meaning
UK£3600 tops (which translates to something like $6600, but stuff over here
is generally more expensive). A standard lens would be lower priority but
preferred, so i'd be prepared to leave it as a later purchase. I'm fairly au
fait with the specs and abilities/shortcomings of each system, so ideally
i'm looking for personal accounts of what each one is like to shoot with.
Hearing from people with similar style/needs to myself would be great (check
out the link below for a couple of examples). Some cameras I may be able to
try before I buy as I work in a camera store, but more esoteric cameras like
Contax 645 and Rollei 600x are hard to find anywhere but mail-order.

So, given the money and limitations (and buying used, of course), what would
you buy?

$6000 is good money. Get yourself a Hasselblad or Mamiya 7. One of
them is surely better than any other option.

J.

"Martin Francis" wrote in message ...
I am now virtually camera free, with only a prosumer d/c and 35mm point and
shoot to my name... and now i'm planning for the future. I hope that within
the next twelve months i'll be able to get together enough money for some
serious kit. I have experience with both the Bronica ETRSi and Hasselblad
500CM, and like them both (although the Bronica feels far too flimsy).

I like available light, though flash isn't out of the question. Portraiture
is likely to be the primary application, though I won't rule out any others
(bar weddings). In general I prefer to get lose in to my subjects.
Handholding and monopods will be the order of the day, and non-SLR viewing
is not to my taste. I've researched extensively Hassy 503s, 553s and 20xs,
Rollei 6006 and 6008, and Mamiya RB/RZ. Mamiya RZ would be ideal, but it's a
little heavy. Fast glass would be great, but not absolutely necessary (maybe
with the option to buy later). Obsolete systems are out of the question as I
want this stuff to last me a while. I owned an Eastern European 6x6cm SLR
for a while and will not be going back, either :-).

My budget is assuming I can save £300+ per month over 12 months, meaning
UK£3600 tops (which translates to something like $6600, but stuff over here
is generally more expensive). A standard lens would be lower priority but
preferred, so i'd be prepared to leave it as a later purchase. I'm fairly au
fait with the specs and abilities/shortcomings of each system, so ideally
i'm looking for personal accounts of what each one is like to shoot with.
Hearing from people with similar style/needs to myself would be great (check
out the link below for a couple of examples). Some cameras I may be able to
try before I buy as I work in a camera store, but more esoteric cameras like
Contax 645 and Rollei 600x are hard to find anywhere but mail-order.

So, given the money and limitations (and buying used, of course), what would
you buy?

Would the original poster please come back with feedback? How have we done?

Would the original poster please come back with feedback? How have we done?