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#11
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Need to replace my Sony W1
If you check the Sony H1 forum (in Steve's), there are alot of people who
also have the same 1/30 sec problem. I am very surprised becasue the H1 seems to have a much bigger lens. The most confussing thing is that this only in the Sony forum. When I check the other forums for other brands, People don't seem to have this show shutter speed problem. "Whiskers" wrote in message ... On 2006-01-31, Tom wrote: Most of the reviews there seem to be very positive. So we are back to either the settings you are using, or the camera being faulty. It's up to you what you decide to do to work out which ) but given the limitations on user input with that model and the history of some faulty specimens, I'd be inclined to think that you got one of the 'bad batch'. If you decide to try a different model, I can report that I've been very pleased with my Samsung Digimax V700 (which may offer too many manual modes for comfort, if you want a purely point and shoot operation, although the auto or programmed modes seem to handle most things pretty well). I also get some good results with my Minolta Dimage X20, although that is only 2MP and lacks an optical viewfinder - but that range of models includes some with a higher specification, and is very much point and shoot in spirit. -- -- ^^^^^^^^^^ -- Whiskers -- ~~~~~~~~~~ |
#12
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Need to replace my Sony W1
On 2006-01-31, Tom wrote:
"Whiskers" wrote in message ... Most of the reviews there seem to be very positive. So we are back to either the settings you are using, or the camera being faulty. It's up to you what you decide to do to work out which ) but given the limitations on user input with that model and the history of some faulty specimens, I'd be inclined to think that you got one of the 'bad batch'. snip If you check the Sony H1 forum (in Steve's), there are alot of people who also have the same 1/30 sec problem. I am very surprised becasue the H1 seems to have a much bigger lens. The most confussing thing is that this only in the Sony forum. When I check the other forums for other brands, People don't seem to have this show shutter speed problem. (I know that Outlook Express isn't the world's greatest usenet client, but it can be made to 'quote' properly - in the way I have modified your post above - and you can move the 'cursor' to where it makes sense before you start typing. Thank you for working out how to use 'plain text'). I don't know what you mean by "the Sony H1 forum (in Steve's), there are alot of people [...]". I have skimmed http://www.steves-digicams.com/2005_reviews/sony_h1_pg5.html and the five other reviews linked from the bottom of that page, but no complaints about the camera using a too-slow shutter speed leaped out at me. That camera's lens may be physically bulkier than the one on your camera, but given that it claims to be a 12x zoom and incorporates an optical 'anti-shake' gadget, that's hardly surprising. Its maximum aperture is f/2.8, exactly the same as on your camera. If you have taken a dislike to Sony cameras, for whatever reason, then don't buy another one. -- -- ^^^^^^^^^^ -- Whiskers -- ~~~~~~~~~~ |
#13
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Need to replace my Sony W1
Hi,
In the Sony forum in the Steves-digicams site, many people have the same slow shutter speed problem for Sony H1. I am wondering why the other brands do not have this slow shutter speed problem even they have the same f/2.8. for instance: http://www.stevesforums.com/forums/v...12&forum_id=28 OT: Why plain text? Are you still living in a cave or something? Men already landed on the moon... hmmm... almost 50 years ago... and we are going to land on Mars soon... only if Bush brings back some oil to fuel the mission of course... hahaha!!! I don't know what you mean by "the Sony H1 forum (in Steve's), there are alot of people [...]". I have skimmed http://www.steves-digicams.com/2005_reviews/sony_h1_pg5.html and the five other reviews linked from the bottom of that page, but no complaints about the camera using a too-slow shutter speed leaped out at me. That camera's lens may be physically bulkier than the one on your camera, but given that it claims to be a 12x zoom and incorporates an optical 'anti-shake' gadget, that's hardly surprising. Its maximum aperture is f/2.8, exactly the same as on your camera. If you have taken a dislike to Sony cameras, for whatever reason, then don't buy another one. -- -- ^^^^^^^^^^ -- Whiskers -- ~~~~~~~~~~ |
#14
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OT: plain text posting (was: Need to replace my Sony W1)
Tom wrote:
OT: Why plain text? Are you still living in a cave or something? Men already landed on the moon... hmmm... almost 50 years ago... and we are going to land on Mars soon... only if Bush brings back some oil to fuel the mission of course... hahaha!!! Why? Because it is a request in the charter of this newsgroup: "When posting on rec.photo.digital.point+shoot, please use standard Usenet netiquette. Treat other posters with courtesy and follow standard conventions when replying to posts. Please trim the posts you reply to, retaining only the significant portions in your follow up. Preserve attributions (the bits that specify who wrote what in each post) and limit your signature to 4 lines or less. To ensure readability, do not use HTML in your posts and limit your line lengths to the Usenet standard of 80 characters or less." David |
#15
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OT: plain text posting (was: Need to replace my Sony W1)
I see. I always think that people are still living in a cave and using a
1200 bps Modem or something and they Telnet to the newsgroup to read the posts. But yet... the same people are talking about Digital Camera... etc... Yeeeaaa... the good old day in the college typing my homework with Pico in the Sun station... "David J Taylor" wrote in message k... Why? Because it is a request in the charter of this newsgroup: |
#16
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Need to replace my Sony W1
On 2006-02-01, Tom wrote:
On 2006-02-01, Whiskers wrote: snip (I know that Outlook Express isn't the world's greatest usenet client, but it can be made to 'quote' properly - in the way I have modified your post above - and you can move the 'cursor' to where it makes sense before you start typing. Thank you for working out how to use 'plain text'). snip OT: Why plain text? Are you still living in a cave or something? Men already landed on the moon... hmmm... almost 50 years ago... and we are going to land on Mars soon... only if Bush brings back some oil to fuel the mission of course... hahaha!!! Usenet is a 'plain text' medium. Plain text is low-bandwidth, economical, and usable by anyone with usenet or e-mail access. HTML is none of those things. The invention of the motor-car has not made walking any less sensible or practical. for your next task, learn how to insert your comments into the quoted text where it makes sense, rather than where it doesn't. Or learn to have your posts go un-answered. -- -- ^^^^^^^^^^ -- Whiskers -- ~~~~~~~~~~ |
#17
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Need to replace my Sony W1
On 2006-02-01, Tom wrote:
snip I don't know what you mean by "the Sony H1 forum (in Steve's), there are alot of people [...]". I have skimmed http://www.steves-digicams.com/2005_reviews/sony_h1_pg5.html and the five other reviews linked from the bottom of that page, but no complaints about the camera using a too-slow shutter speed leaped out at me. snip for instance: http://www.stevesforums.com/forums/v...12&forum_id=28 snip OK; those people are discussing the 'camera-shake' warning symbol that most digital cameras show when their programming indicates that 'camera shake' is likely. As the respondents suggest there, this is not a fault, it's a useful warning to the user to take particular care to avoid camera shake spoiling the picture. Would you prefer the method used for many years on compact point-and-shoot cameras using film but with 'auto exposure', where the shutter-button would be 'locked' if the camera thought there was 'too little light'? (Those cameras didn't have zoom lenses either). I think there may be some extremely basic digital cameras with that feature, if you want to shop around for one. There are some circumstances where it is inevitable that camera shake becomes likely; 'zooming in' is one and 'low light' is another. It's a matter of basic optics and the 'laws' of nature. That 'wobbly hands' icon does /not/ mean "using 1/30 sec or slower"; when you 'zoom in' to the full extent of your 3x zoom, camera shake is likely at anything much less than 1/200 sec. As the maximum aperture is effectively much smaller when 'zoomed in' [1], thus requiring a slower shutter speed than the wide-angle setting could use in the same light, it's easy to see that even on a fairly bright day there are times when your camera /should/ warn you of 'camera shake'. Photographers who like to use long lenses with medium-speed film have always had to carry (or hunt around for) some sort of camera support; so have those who like to take pictures indoors, unless they an afford an extreme wide-aperture prime lens. The problem can to some extent be designed out of camera lenses, by making them with larger maximum apertures; but that makes them a lot bigger, and a great deal more expensive - and not 'zooms'. Camera lenses built for low-light hand-held work are not enormous just because the designer felt like it. [1] Assuming that the actual 'hole' through which the light passes, is fixed at whatever works out as "f/2.8" at the wide-angle end of a 3X zoom, then at the 'tele' end that same hole will work out as more like "f/4.5", ie letting through only 1/3 as much light. So if you can use 1/100 sec at f/2.8 at the 'wide' zoom, then when you zoom in you will have to use f/4.5 which means that the shutter speed will be little more than 1/30 sec - even if the smaller area now being photographed is just as bright as the wider scene, which it probably isn't. -- -- ^^^^^^^^^^ -- Whiskers -- ~~~~~~~~~~ |
#18
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Need to replace my Sony W1
Hi,
I didn't use any zoom. I tried to take a outdoor picture similar to the one in that Sony forum, I got the same 1/30 sec without using zoom. I set the W1 to AUTO. It just picked 1/30 all the time. (unless it is really bright) For the Sony, it displays the shaky hand when the shutter speed is selected 1/40 or less (without zoom). So, if I set the W1 to Manual, and pick 1/40 instead of 1/30, the shaky hand will disappear but the same picture will come out dark. My question is that is it that the lens used in the Sony does not let enough light to go in the camera making the camera to always pick a slower shutter speed. I am confused why other brands do not have this problem? I don't find any post in the other forums about their camera picking slow shutter speed in "pretty" sunny outdoor. One possibility is that the other brands raise the ISO but keep the shutter speed fast. The Sony, on the other hand, tries to keep the ISO low but slow the shutter speed. I don't know. Just a guess. The Sony slows the shutter speed to 1/30 all the time. So, I always need to use the flash. When I use the flash, the Sony always picks 1/60 sec or higher. But the flash in the Sony is not strong enough for outdoor (to fill) but too bright for indoor. I am thinking to buy a Olympus E500 ($800 with 2 lenses) or the Sony H1 ($500) to replace the W1 ($350). I want one that I can use an external flash that I can point to a different angle. (right now, I am using one of those very bright spot flash light) And one that has better lens that can let more light to go in to the camera. But before I go nut to folk up a grand for a camera, I want to understand why the Sony slows the shutter speed but the other brand doesn't do the same. That 'wobbly hands' icon does /not/ mean "using 1/30 sec or slower"; when you 'zoom in' to the full extent of your 3x zoom, camera shake is likely at anything much less than 1/200 sec. |
#19
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Need to replace my Sony W1
On 2006-02-01, Tom wrote:
Hi, I didn't use any zoom. I tried to take a outdoor picture similar to the one in that Sony forum, I got the same 1/30 sec without using zoom. I set the W1 to AUTO. It just picked 1/30 all the time. (unless it is really bright) For the Sony, it displays the shaky hand when the shutter speed is selected 1/40 or less (without zoom). So, if I set the W1 to Manual, and pick 1/40 instead of 1/30, the shaky hand will disappear but the same picture will come out dark. My question is that is it that the lens used in the Sony does not let enough light to go in the camera making the camera to always pick a slower shutter speed. I am confused why other brands do not have this problem? I don't find any post in the other forums about their camera picking slow shutter speed in "pretty" sunny outdoor. One possibility is that the other brands raise the ISO but keep the shutter speed fast. The Sony, on the other hand, tries to keep the ISO low but slow the shutter speed. I don't know. Just a guess. Can you over-ride the ISO setting? If so, try it. Any camera is going to need you to learn its quirks; perhaps that is one of the quirks of your camera? The Sony slows the shutter speed to 1/30 all the time. So, I always need to use the flash. When I use the flash, the Sony always picks 1/60 sec or higher. But the flash in the Sony is not strong enough for outdoor (to fill) but too bright for indoor. I don't know if there is a 'problem' with the way your Sony operates, or with the way you operate it. Perhaps you could spend some of your money on a 35mm or roll-film camera with manual-only exposure control; that is the best way to learn 'exposure technique' without camera electronics getting in the way. Even a seperate hand-held exposure meter will give you more information than you can easily get from a compact digital camera (and provide a 'second opinion' if you suspect that the camera is not metering correctly). I am thinking to buy a Olympus E500 ($800 with 2 lenses) or the Sony H1 ($500) to replace the W1 ($350). I want one that I can use an external flash that I can point to a different angle. (right now, I am using one of those very bright spot flash light) And one that has better lens that can let more light to go in to the camera. But before I go nut to folk up a grand for a camera, I want to understand why the Sony slows the shutter speed but the other brand doesn't do the same. I'm not convinced that your camera is doing anything significantly different from comparable models from other brands. All the reviews you have pointed me to seem to be overwhelmingly favourable, and the 'shaking hands symbol' bothers only one or two users - and those users are not complaining about the results (apart from you), only about the fact that the warning appears and they don't understand what it really means. Interchangeable lenses and fancy flash technique are way beyond the scope of 'point and shoot' cameras. If you want a lens that lets in more light, check the 'maximum aperture'; f/2.8 is the 'best' you're likely to get on a compact camera. Any lenses marked f/2.8 (or 1:2.8 on some brands) will be 'equally fast'. A lens marked f/2 will be 'twice as fast' - and for a given focal length it will be larger, heavier, and more expensive. F/1.4 is twice as fast again, and getting pretty substantial and (if you want good results at that maximum aperture), you'll be taking 'real money'. There are even faster lenses made at the 50mm focal length for 35mm cameras - and they are very expensive (or not very good). Zoom lenses rarely have large maximum apertures, likewise 'telephoto' lenses and wideangles. -- -- ^^^^^^^^^^ -- Whiskers -- ~~~~~~~~~~ |
#20
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Need to replace my Sony W1
This one is $80 buck. It says it can see what my eyes can see. Sound
pretty good. Will this work for letting more light to go in? Do you know the different from this lens to the one in my Sony? http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...Fencoding=UTF8 "Whiskers" wrote in message ... On 2006-02-01, Tom wrote: aperture), you'll be taking 'real money'. There are even faster lenses made at the 50mm focal length for 35mm cameras - and they are very expensive (or not very good). Zoom lenses rarely have large maximum apertures, likewise 'telephoto' lenses and wideangles. |
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