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#11
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"Film is gone" - Kodak
Etaoin Shurdlu wrote:
"rafe b" rafebATspeakeasy.net wrote in message Jeez, you're just having a ball stirring up the flames, eh, John? At least you could have brought some marshmallows. Marshmallows? Gosh, you are easily pleased. I was going to bring steaks. I think we could have some fun with the "multipurpose camera" concept he mentioned. Swiss-Army knife of cameras? Kodak signed a big product development deal with Motorola recently. Perhaps you could imagine what some future products might look like, and how they might function. Ciao! Gordon Moat A G Studio http://www.allgstudio.com |
#12
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"Film is gone" - Kodak
People buy what they think you think they will buy....
Kodak has been sending the wrong messages to its market. If they said: "We expect the demand for film and to remain very strong, and the accptance of digital to be limited, becaus eof the advantages of film" then the market might think twice. If Kodak says "Film? Yeah, we sell that crap. Are you sure you want to buy that?" then the market gets the message... Gordon Moat wrote: Etaoin Shurdlu wrote: "rafe b" rafebATspeakeasy.net wrote in message Jeez, you're just having a ball stirring up the flames, eh, John? At least you could have brought some marshmallows. Marshmallows? Gosh, you are easily pleased. I was going to bring steaks. I think we could have some fun with the "multipurpose camera" concept he mentioned. Swiss-Army knife of cameras? Kodak signed a big product development deal with Motorola recently. Perhaps you could imagine what some future products might look like, and how they might function. Ciao! Gordon Moat A G Studio http://www.allgstudio.com |
#13
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"Film is gone" - Kodak
Philip Homburg wrote:
In article . com, Noons wrote: wrote: The first time I read that I thought it said "single-use cameras." But on reading the Kodak PR blurb, I think they mean single-purpose as in just-takes-still-pictures. They already make digicams that can take movies, of course, but their future push appears to be in the realm of data organization - indexing your pictures, etc. Not to mention whether the camera should be better integrated with your computer, PDA, etc. Who knows if this is of interest to readers of this group, but it could legitimately be of interest to Joe Consumer, who now has a bunch of digital photos cluttering his hard drive and not much to help him organize and retrieve them. Very good points. I think google and M$ have file management covered. Any attempt by camera makers to make digital cameras "manage" images on their own is doomed to fail, quite frankly: pcs are currently the ideal platform for file management, not cameras... I'd like to see how Kodak is going to compete with the camera-phones. . . . . . . Kodak recently signed a product development deal with Motorola. I think Motorola are capable of making some interesting and popular phones. 100% in agreement. It's my gut feel about d-slrs: they all are re-hashes of good old flm slrs (f-slrs?!). Nothing fundamentally new, really. Sincerely hope the concept gets re-invented with some really new features otherwise p&s slrs will walk all over them in another coupla years. Kodak already has some very good, high rez, large sensor, high quality lens p&s cameras. So does Sony, Fuji and Samsung. Only Kodak and Dalsa are making large imaging chips for photography. Fuji do still make a large chip for their 6x8 camera, but I don't know of anywhere outside of Japan where this is sold. Kodak supplies chips for PhaseOne and Imacon. Kodak also owns Leaf now, after their purchase of Creo. Leaf uses Dalsa chips in their medium format backs. How many electrically powered cars come with three wheels or five? Why copy the same basic layout as a petrol powered car? Maybe six legs is even better. Maybe the SLR concept is simply optimal for getting high quality photographic results. Ergonomics? Stability with longer lenses? Of course, Kodak is focusing on the group of users who just want press a button to get a snapshot. Nothing wrong with that, but the SLR concept is not for that group of users. P&S cameras are designed for a different market than DSLRs. Yes, a P&S may compete with an entry level DSLR with just a kit lens. But if the DSLR user goes beyond that, the P&S is left behind. There are some quite nice P&S cameras now on the market. Of course, many do not have viewfinders at all, so composition is done with the LCD. Some do have an SLR-style, which attracts some people to them. Quite often the SLR-style is just a body shape, since the viewfinder is just a small video monitor. Regardless, these compact digital cameras far outsell other types, like D-SLRs, or digital backs. The ideal to me could be MF quality image processing thrown in with the camera: a docking station or similar with a good screen, mouse, dedicated keyboard and a good image editor program. Now, THAT'd make me think about moving to digital. And it'd keep me from having to upgrade my pc every second year... Well, if you have enough space for an extra keyboard and screen, why not buy a separate PC just for image editing. As long as you keep the same camera and you remain satisfied with the software you have, there is absolutely no reason to upgrade the PC. I sort of doubt that any company can offer dedicated hardware with an image editor as good as Photoshop without the whole thing being much more expensive than simply taking a PC with Photoshop. (If you just want low-end image editing, there plenty of PCs designed for multimedia centers that can be fitted with a simple image editor). High end image editing software still exists, and you are right, it is very expensive. The capabilities are quite good, but it would be more than any amateur would ever need . . . better to just stick to PhotoShop. Ciao! Gordon Moat A G Studio http://www.allgstudio.com |
#14
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"Film is gone" - Kodak
Etaoin Shurdlu wrote: wrote: [...] BTW, I don't think he said "Film is gone" anywhere in this speech. I know, just a minor detail. He said it in a NYT interview. Thanks for posting the link in a timely fashion. I found it, but it's in the NYT paid archive now. |
#15
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"Film is gone" - Kodak
Noons wrote:
Very good points. I think google and M$ have file management covered. Any attempt by camera makers to make digital cameras "manage" images on their own is doomed to fail, quite frankly: pcs are currently the ideal platform for file management, not cameras... But at the same time, as you mention later, our PCs are stuck in a two-year upgrade cycle. Also tied to whatever shortcomings are imposed by OS makers. I agree that I only want to manage images with a keyboard and mouse, not by pressing little buttons on the back of my camera. However, I could see that camera makers could improve the situation for indexing, for example by improving the metadata that is stored along with the image. Here's a gee-whiz idea (for all I know this already exists): Some people take notes as they take images. Imagine a camera with a microphone that records your notes as an mp3. (Then when you download it, speech recognition software transcribes them, except that software is a pain in the ass, but I digress.) The notes could be anything, from technical details to "Aunt Shirley at Joey's first birthday." On a less frivolous note, one thing he emphasized was that consumers own their own pictures and they have to respect that. I see this as a pre-emptive strike against excessive digital rights management. Maybe I'm being naive, but I'd hope Kodak and other imaging companies can resist the oppressive DRM rhetoric that movie companies like and that Microsoft sometimes seems to favor. Cell phone companies are even worse. In the cell phone companies' ideal world, you would pay them for a camera phone, pay them to store the images on their server, and pay them every time you wanted to look at an image. Their predatoriness is one thing that will enable camera companies to compete with GSM camera phones (purely aside from the whole quality issue). Of course: the video+image thing seems to be popular, although I fail to see why. Dedicated hardware is much better at these things, I reckon. However, he's talking futures: so things might change? I know lots of people who take those 30-second videos of their kids, say. A video camera is a much better tool for taking a 2-hour video. But my friends know nobody will watch a 2-hour home video. This however, I find very interesting: ""Today's digital cameras are dinosaurs, with the same basic architecture and functionality as the box Brownie camera that Kodak introduced more than one hundred years ago," said Perez. "It's a lens, shutter and something to capture the focused light. All the imaging industry has done is to replace silver with silicon. In the next era, we will design digital cameras from the ground up to take full advantage of the creative power that digital technology provides." 100% in agreement. It's my gut feel about d-slrs: they all are re-hashes of good old flm slrs (f-slrs?!). Nothing fundamentally new, really. Sincerely hope the concept gets re-invented with some really new features otherwise p&s slrs will walk all over them in another coupla years. Kodak already has some very good, high rez, large sensor, high quality lens p&s cameras. So does Sony, Fuji and Samsung. The ideal to me could be MF quality image processing thrown in with the camera: a docking station or similar with a good screen, mouse, dedicated keyboard and a good image editor program. Now, THAT'd make me think about moving to digital. And it'd keep me from having to upgrade my pc every second year... |
#16
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"Film is gone" - Kodak
In article ,
Gordon Moat wrote: Etaoin Shurdlu wrote: "rafe b" rafebATspeakeasy.net wrote in message Jeez, you're just having a ball stirring up the flames, eh, John? At least you could have brought some marshmallows. Marshmallows? Gosh, you are easily pleased. I was going to bring steaks. I think we could have some fun with the "multipurpose camera" concept he mentioned. Swiss-Army knife of cameras? Kodak signed a big product development deal with Motorola recently. Perhaps you could imagine what some future products might look like, and how they might function. Ciao! Gordon Moat A G Studio http://www.allgstudio.com Yellow cell phone's with the Kodak emblem? -- "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918 greg_____photo(dot)com |
#17
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"Film is gone" - Kodak
In article ,
Gordon Moat wrote: Philip Homburg wrote: I'd like to see how Kodak is going to compete with the camera-phones. . . . . . . Kodak recently signed a product development deal with Motorola. I think Motorola are capable of making some interesting and popular phones. In that case, the question becomes how Kodak is going to make money. Is the profit margin on phones that high that Motorola can affort to give Kodak a significant part of the profits. Only Kodak and Dalsa are making large imaging chips for photography. Fuji do still make a large chip for their 6x8 camera, but I don't know of anywhere outside of Japan where this is sold. Kodak supplies chips for PhaseOne and Imacon. Kodak also owns Leaf now, after their purchase of Creo. Leaf uses Dalsa chips in their medium format backs. So, if Kodak is serieus about the future of digital cameras, this should leave the MF sensor market to Dalsa :-) -- That was it. Done. The faulty Monk was turned out into the desert where it could believe what it liked, including the idea that it had been hard done by. It was allowed to keep its horse, since horses were so cheap to make. -- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency |
#18
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"Film is gone" - Kodak
In article . com,
wrote: But at the same time, as you mention later, our PCs are stuck in a two-year upgrade cycle. I don't know why your PCs are stuck in a two-year upgrade cycle, but I have Celeron 766, with Win98SE, NikonScan 3.x, Photoshop 6, etc. that works just fine. Of course, nobody would be stupid enough to connect a Windows system that is used for important work to the Internet. Frivolous installs of random software is also a bad idea. But apart from that, Windows does not degrade any faster than the PC hardware itself. -- That was it. Done. The faulty Monk was turned out into the desert where it could believe what it liked, including the idea that it had been hard done by. It was allowed to keep its horse, since horses were so cheap to make. -- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency |
#19
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"Film is gone" - Kodak
G- Blank wrote: In article , Gordon Moat wrote: Etaoin Shurdlu wrote: "rafe b" rafebATspeakeasy.net wrote in message Jeez, you're just having a ball stirring up the flames, eh, John? At least you could have brought some marshmallows. Marshmallows? Gosh, you are easily pleased. I was going to bring steaks. I think we could have some fun with the "multipurpose camera" concept he mentioned. Swiss-Army knife of cameras? Kodak signed a big product development deal with Motorola recently. Perhaps you could imagine what some future products might look like, and how they might function. Ciao! Gordon Moat A G Studio http://www.allgstudio.com Yellow cell phone's with the Kodak emblem? Well, they changed their logo recently. To me, the new version seems more like the Lucky Film packaging . . . maybe just a coincidence? ;-) Ciao! Gordon Moat A G Studio http://www.allgstudio.com |
#20
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"Film is gone" - Kodak
In article ,
Gordon Moat wrote: Well, they changed their logo recently. To me, the new version seems more like the Lucky Film packaging . . . maybe just a coincidence? ;-) Or a "Lucky" Happenstance ~:^0 Ciao! Gordon Moat A G Studio http://www.allgstudio.com -- "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918 greg_____photo(dot)com |
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