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Anti-digital backlash continues ...



 
 
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  #11  
Old June 19th 04, 05:08 PM
Randall Ainsworth
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Default Anti-digital backlash continues ...

In article , Stacey
wrote:

Now I see why you're continuosly on such a "pro-digital" rant, you've
invested many thousands of dollars and need to feel you didn't waste your
money. Yes my $150 used mamiya M645 kicks your 1Ds's butt! :-)


The only place a Mamiya product should be kicked is into the garbage
can.
  #12  
Old June 19th 04, 05:08 PM
Randall Ainsworth
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Default Anti-digital backlash continues ...

In article , Stacey
wrote:

And 8 times more than I paid for my mamiya 645 with lenses. I'm not even
going to think how much kiev gear you could buy for 1/10 of that! :-)


Kiev - commie garbage. And I still say 645 is for amateurs.
  #13  
Old June 19th 04, 05:28 PM
one_of_many
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Default Anti-digital backlash continues ...

In article , Nick Zentena
wrote:

This week Fuji claimed Digital prices are collapsing and they'll have to
cut costs. They expect to cut R&D. If people were killing each other to buy
digital then why do companies have to give the stuff away to get it off the
shelf?


Perhaps Fuji has adopted the American model of greed.
  #14  
Old June 19th 04, 08:34 PM
Sabineellen
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Default Anti-digital backlash continues ...

Bill, if expensive digital gear depreciates, it only means medium format is a
better option for me, and many others, now and the cost of developing
occasional shots is far less than the cost of depreciation in digital gear. If
it digital gear doesn't depreciate, it's even better, because it means medium
format will remain economically viable for many years to come.
  #15  
Old June 19th 04, 08:36 PM
Vincent Becker
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Default Anti-digital backlash continues ...


I'm not even
going to think how much kiev gear you could buy for 1/10 of that! :-)


Enough to make you regret you didn't go digital, maybe :-)

--
Vincent Becker
Photographie et appareils anciens - Photography and classic cameras
URL:http://www.lumieresenboite.com
Merci de passer par mon site pour les réponses par courriel
  #16  
Old June 19th 04, 10:47 PM
Gordon Moat
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Default Anti-digital backlash continues ...

Bill Hilton wrote:

I guess Bob is right, the anti-digital backlash is upon us. Nikon recently
said they will be ramping up monthly D70 production to 90,000 and expects to
sell one MILLION dSLR's this year (up from 300,000 last year). Sales of all
Nikon digital cameras are projected to hit 7.8 million this year. Canon sells
even more than Nikon.

What were those figures for medium format again, 25,000 for all Japanese
companies combined? Yep, the backlash is here and the switch to MF is upon us
...

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...toryID=5438031


The strange part of the latest Nikon announcements was that sales volume of P&S
film cameras dropped below a million, and is projected at "only" 500000 units
this year. The have never been a big volume seller in P&S, yet it seems odd that
the profits from half a million to a million P&S cameras would be worse that from
90k direct digital SLRs.

How many D2H and D1X cameras sell each year? How many more digital P&S cameras
sell each year? How many of those buying a D2H or D1X sold a medium format camera
to get one? How many sold a medium format camera to buy a digital P&S? Do any of
the new high end digital users miss the ease of manual control or ergonomics of
their medium format gear? How many think that the lenses are less important when
using direct digital?

If you have any friends working in the investment or financial management
sectors, try to get a copy of the latest Gartner report on direct digital imaging
technologies. Gartner have defined a term called Hype Cycles, which refers to
buying and usage patterns found in technology. The term is new, but the habits of
the public at large are not. Backlash is mostly used as an indication of small
trends within a Hype Cycle, and never as a reversal of any trend. Technology
backlash is very real, but is never any reaction that reverses any trend. It is
merely a step that occurs just prior to a more normal growth, and implementation
of any technology.

If anyone is more curious about this, go to:

http://www3.gartner.com/research/special_reports/hype_cycle/hc_special_report.jsp
then look on the left side to click on "Understanding Hype Cycles" Learn More.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
http://www.allgstudio.com
http://www.agstudiopro.com Coming Soon!


  #17  
Old June 19th 04, 10:51 PM
Gordon Moat
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Default Anti-digital backlash continues ...

Randall Ainsworth wrote:

In article , Stacey
wrote:

Now I see why you're continuosly on such a "pro-digital" rant, you've
invested many thousands of dollars and need to feel you didn't waste your
money. Yes my $150 used mamiya M645 kicks your 1Ds's butt! :-)


The only place a Mamiya product should be kicked is into the garbage
can.


Would you include the Mamiya 7 II and associated lenses with that? Which
system do you feel is better, and why? Thanks for commenting.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
http://www.allgstudio.com
http://www.agstudiopro.com Coming Soon!



  #18  
Old June 19th 04, 11:01 PM
David J. Littleboy
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Default Anti-digital backlash continues ...


"Gordon Moat" wrote in message
...
Bill Hilton wrote:

I guess Bob is right, the anti-digital backlash is upon us. Nikon

recently
said they will be ramping up monthly D70 production to 90,000 and

expects to
sell one MILLION dSLR's this year (up from 300,000 last year). Sales of

all
Nikon digital cameras are projected to hit 7.8 million this year. Canon

sells
even more than Nikon.

What were those figures for medium format again, 25,000 for all Japanese
companies combined? Yep, the backlash is here and the switch to MF is

upon us
...

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...toryID=5438031


The strange part of the latest Nikon announcements was that sales volume

of P&S
film cameras dropped below a million, and is projected at "only" 500000

units
this year. The have never been a big volume seller in P&S, yet it seems

odd that
the profits from half a million to a million P&S cameras would be worse

that from
90k direct digital SLRs.

How many D2H and D1X cameras sell each year? How many more digital P&S

cameras
sell each year?


You forgot the D100 and D70. Especially the D70, which is currently selling
at a faster pace than all Nikon film P&S combined.

How many of those buying a D2H or D1X sold a medium format camera
to get one? How many sold a medium format camera to buy a digital P&S? Do

any of
the new high end digital users miss the ease of manual control or

ergonomics of
their medium format gear?


Well, pros seem to like heavy cameras, but in terms of ergonomics, the
10D/D70/300D kick MF's butt just as 35mm did years ago. And all these
cameras have a manual mode.

How many think that the lenses are less important when
using direct digital?


Most people think the lenses are more important, since the digital sensor
gets more out of the lens than film does.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan


  #19  
Old June 20th 04, 12:01 AM
Gordon Moat
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Posts: n/a
Default Anti-digital backlash continues ...

"David J. Littleboy" wrote:

"Gordon Moat" wrote in message
...
Bill Hilton wrote:

I guess Bob is right, the anti-digital backlash is upon us. Nikon

recently
said they will be ramping up monthly D70 production to 90,000 and

expects to
sell one MILLION dSLR's this year (up from 300,000 last year). Sales of

all
Nikon digital cameras are projected to hit 7.8 million this year. Canon

sells
even more than Nikon.

What were those figures for medium format again, 25,000 for all Japanese
companies combined? Yep, the backlash is here and the switch to MF is

upon us
...

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...toryID=5438031


The strange part of the latest Nikon announcements was that sales volume

of P&S
film cameras dropped below a million, and is projected at "only" 500000

units
this year. The have never been a big volume seller in P&S, yet it seems

odd that
the profits from half a million to a million P&S cameras would be worse

that from
90k direct digital SLRs.

How many D2H and D1X cameras sell each year? How many more digital P&S

cameras
sell each year?


You forgot the D100 and D70. Especially the D70, which is currently selling
at a faster pace than all Nikon film P&S combined.


Locally, the only pros using the lower spec direct digital SLRs are using
mostly Canon. I have met many using a D60 or even D30, so perhaps those are
better sellers than the D1/D2 lines. How many not doing photojournalism are
buying a D100 or D70? Are the D100 and D70 better than the D1/D2 choices, or
just cheaper?



How many of those buying a D2H or D1X sold a medium format camera
to get one? How many sold a medium format camera to buy a digital P&S? Do

any of
the new high end digital users miss the ease of manual control or

ergonomics of
their medium format gear?


Well, pros seem to like heavy cameras,


Which should be covered by the weight of many direct digital SLRs.

but in terms of ergonomics, the
10D/D70/300D kick MF's butt just as 35mm did years ago. And all these
cameras have a manual mode.


Manual mode accessible through command dials and LCDs, which are very different
interfaces to medium format. Also, much lesser gear is menu driven interfaces,
more like computers, so adjustments are not as fast in many cases. Most of
these newer cameras cannot just be picked up and immediately used, so going
through the extensive and thick owners manual is necessary. Compare that to the
ease of just picking up, or renting, many different medium format cameras, and
almost immediately using them. What may seem ergonomic and intuitive to an
engineer could be an interface frustration for someone who is artistically
creative.

Add in that the manual feel of autofocus lenses is very different to the manual
focus feel of true manual focus lenses. I have rented the Contax 645, and their
autofocus lenses focus nicely as manual focus lenses, though nearly all 35 mm
sized autofocus lenses I have used lack any focus feel. Obviously, these are
strictly ergonomic issues, and many will actually prefer autofocus only, and
never deal with manual focus.



How many think that the lenses are less important when
using direct digital?


Most people think the lenses are more important, since the digital sensor
gets more out of the lens than film does.


So does that imply that Nikon or Canon lenses are better than Zeiss medium
format (or Mamiya, Pentax, et al)? Notice also that more zoom lenses are sold
by Nikon and Canon than fixed focal lenses, yet most of us would state that
fixed focal lenses provide better image quality in most comparisons. If that is
considered, then are Nikon and Canon zoom lenses better than medium format
fixed focal lens choices? If the answer to both those questions is no, then why
are some photographers more willing to use lenses of lower quality? If instead
your answer to both above questions is yes, then please explain your reasoning.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
http://www.allgstudio.com
http://www.agstudiopro.com Coming Soon!

  #20  
Old June 20th 04, 12:20 AM
Mike
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Posts: n/a
Default Anti-digital backlash continues ...

Stacey said:

Please take these unrelated posts to a relevant newsgroup.


What do you mean "unrelated" and "relevant newsgroup?" Most of the threads
here seem to involve digital vs. film arguments. It looks to me like this is
the relevant newsgroup for film vs digital arguments . What's irrelevant and
unrelated here is anything having to do with medium format photography. In
fact a change in the name of the group is probably in order since the title
"rec.photo.equipment.medium-format" would lead a newcomer to incorrectly
assume that this is a forum devoted to medium format photography. : - )

"Stacey" wrote in message
...
Bill Hilton wrote:



If you think "Digital prices are collapsing" look at the Canon products
... the 1Ds (11 Mpixel full-frame dSLR) came out at $7,999 almost 18
months ago and
today the price has "collapsed" all the way to $7,495 at B&H. And it's
still in short supply ... when I bought mine in April I had to wait two
weeks to find one at a reputable dealer.


Now I see why you're continuosly on such a "pro-digital" rant, you've
invested many thousands of dollars and need to feel you didn't waste your
money. Yes my $150 used mamiya M645 kicks your 1Ds's butt! :-)

Please take these unrelated posts to a relevant newsgroup.





--

Stacey



 




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