Absolute beginner needs advivce

I guess that's what being an artist is about. Things don't have to
be vastly profound to be enjoyable to behold. If we lack a certain
sensitivity to our world what are we? and that goes for how we treat
others,....perhaps I am not always the best at interpersonal skills
but I believe I try :-)


And this "is" the Usenet love it with all its quirks and quacks or leave
it.

In article ,
"No One" wrote:

It is wondrous how with a hundred or more years of photographic image making
someone still manages to amaze with as simple a thing as a photograph of a
flower, a face or a shoe.

--
LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

(Collin Brendemuehl) wrote in message . com...

Hi, Colin!

How ya doin'?


Starting in LF one should begin with something basic, just to learn
the
functionality. There's a lot of things to get a handle on before
making
the big investment into a high-dollar, high-quality piece of hardware
and
the glass that does with it.
Up to 16x20, a b&w print from a blad is hard to tell from a 4x5 b&w.
(Color neg prints are easier to tell apart.) In detail you may be
pleased
with what comes from medium format.
But LF gives you some lens and film plane movements that cost a bundle
on a medium format, and they're no available to all medium format
systems. Tilting is very practical on landscapes, a little

In 4x5, 8x10, & larger, any good lens is going to give you a nice
print.
There was a very good print in View Camera a few issues ago shot with
a
relatively inexpensive Wollensak 6 1/4" f12.5 lens. Even a mediocre
lens
give good results and you can be pleased with most of them. (In 4x5 I
do
recommend staying away from the Wollensak lenses on Graphics, except
for
the learning experience.)

For (indoor or outdoor) color work, like the landscapes you suggest,
color correction is most important. For that reason I'd recommend
going with anything but Fuji lenses. I really don't like their color
correction and it shows on chromes (though C-41 printing does
compensate for it well).

LF is expensive. Locally (Columbus, OH) I spend about $1 per sheet of
film, $2.25 for processing (C-41/E-6), and $2 each contact. That's $5
just to start. Then I add in the cost each of the mistakes and it's
roughly twice that price.

A 4x5 contact is worth framing. I use old 4x5 film holders that are
useless (the old graphic units) for simple frames. They're nearly
free and make a suitable display for either b&w or color.

Just get one and enjoy yourself.

Collin

"Bert" wrote in message ...
Hi,

I've just discovered your newsgroup, so here goes!

I want to move up from 35mm / digital because for me quality of final image
is important. I'm unsure wether to go to 6x6 or right into 5x4 (shooting
mainly ladscapes). I've seen the quality you can get from 5x4 (fantastic),
but I have some concerns and questions. If anyone can advise or maybe there
is a 'beginners website', a link of two would be appreciated. I'd add that I
like to take my time over taking a photograph, so setting up and time isn't
a problem.

Here are some of my questions:

Cost is not an issue, and I appreciate finest engineering / optical quality,
so recommendations for suitable cameras please (Ebony? Hasselblad - is the
SWC worth considering?)

How much 'better' is 5x4" over top quality 6x6cm (typically I'd want
enlargements to A2/A1)

What's the best lens available (wide-angle)?

I've been told you need to take the lenses apart to mount on the board, is
this difficult or can it be done by the dealer?

Is the fuji quickload system worth considering?

How do you develop the film (!) - how easy/difficult is it compared to
processing 35mm?

On a picture by picture basis, how much does it cost on average to process
and print the relative formats?


I have a hundred more questions!

Any help or comments appreciated.

Regards

Steve

(Uranium Committee) wrote in message . com...
(Collin Brendemuehl) wrote in message . com...

Hi, Colin!

How ya doin'?


I'm doing well.
But with whom am I conversing?

Collin

This type of stupidity is why scarpitti has no credibility in this or any other
newsgroup. I'm sure he's never heard about press cameras or Weegee.


Michael Scarpitti wrote:
: "Bert" wrote in message ...
: Hi,
:
: I've just discovered your newsgroup, so here goes!
:
: I want to move up from 35mm / digital because for me quality of final image
: is important.

: What kind of photography is important to you? That's really the
: question. You can get really high quality images with 4 x 5. but
: spontaneity is out of the question. There are no motorized 4 x 5
: cameras (except large roll aerial cameras).

: I'm unsure wether to go to 6x6 or right into 5x4 (shooting
: mainly ladscapes).


: You may tire of landscapes before you know it. It's overdone, anyway.
: And often poorly.

: I've seen the quality you can get from 5x4 (fantastic),
: but I have some concerns and questions. If anyone can advise or maybe there
: is a 'beginners website', a link of two would be appreciated. I'd add that I
: like to take my time over taking a photograph, so setting up and time isn't
: a problem.
:
: Here are some of my questions:
:
: Cost is not an issue, and I appreciate finest engineering / optical quality,
: so recommendations for suitable cameras please (Ebony? Hasselblad - is the
: SWC worth considering?)
:
: How much 'better' is 5x4" over top quality 6x6cm (typically I'd want
: enlargements to A2/A1)
:
: What's the best lens available (wide-angle)?
:
: I've been told you need to take the lenses apart to mount on the board, is
: this difficult or can it be done by the dealer?
:
: Is the fuji quickload system worth considering?
:
: How do you develop the film (!) - how easy/difficult is it compared to
: processing 35mm?
:
: On a picture by picture basis, how much does it cost on average to process
: and print the relative formats?
:
:
: I have a hundred more questions!
:
: Any help or comments appreciated.
:
: Regards
:
: Steve

--




Keep working millions on welfare depend on you
-------------------

Frank Pittel wrote in message ...
This type of stupidity is why scarpitti has no credibility in this or any other
newsgroup. I'm sure he's never heard about press cameras or Weegee.


They're not made anymore, sonny. Nor are press films. Remember Royal
Pan? Gone. Arrow Pan? Gone. Super Panchro Press Type B? Gone.

And I'm sure you can stroll into your local camera shop and find NEW
Graflexes.

Weegee? I saw his stuff when I was a kid, before you even HEARD of
silver halides.

WE REALLY DON'T NEED ANY MORE LANDSCAPE PHOTOGRAPHERS.

There are LOTS of other things to photograph that are underdone,
Frank:

Her are some I suggest YOU try:

The openings of active volcanos.

Lava flows.

Mud slides.

Hurricanes.

Terrorist, Mafia, and KKK meetings.

Nuclear Tests.







Michael Scarpitti wrote:
: "Bert" wrote in message ...
: Hi,
:
: I've just discovered your newsgroup, so here goes!
:
: I want to move up from 35mm / digital because for me quality of final image
: is important.

: What kind of photography is important to you? That's really the
: question. You can get really high quality images with 4 x 5. but
: spontaneity is out of the question. There are no motorized 4 x 5
: cameras (except large roll aerial cameras).

: I'm unsure wether to go to 6x6 or right into 5x4 (shooting
: mainly ladscapes).


: You may tire of landscapes before you know it. It's overdone, anyway.
: And often poorly.

: I've seen the quality you can get from 5x4 (fantastic),
: but I have some concerns and questions. If anyone can advise or maybe there
: is a 'beginners website', a link of two would be appreciated. I'd add that I
: like to take my time over taking a photograph, so setting up and time isn't
: a problem.
:
: Here are some of my questions:
:
: Cost is not an issue, and I appreciate finest engineering / optical quality,
: so recommendations for suitable cameras please (Ebony? Hasselblad - is the
: SWC worth considering?)
:
: How much 'better' is 5x4" over top quality 6x6cm (typically I'd want
: enlargements to A2/A1)
:
: What's the best lens available (wide-angle)?
:
: I've been told you need to take the lenses apart to mount on the board, is
: this difficult or can it be done by the dealer?
:
: Is the fuji quickload system worth considering?
:
: How do you develop the film (!) - how easy/difficult is it compared to
: processing 35mm?
:
: On a picture by picture basis, how much does it cost on average to process
: and print the relative formats?
:
:
: I have a hundred more questions!
:
: Any help or comments appreciated.
:
: Regards
:
: Steve

Gregory Blank wrote in message ...
I disagree with Michael as well, there are alot of
bad images in any one catagory. But there alot great scenics done
as well. Mike likes to generalize to suit his personal taste
or lack of it, in his case.

You really don't think there's too much bad landscape photography
being created? Stop at your local library some time and look at the
'show of the month'.




In article ,
"No One" wrote:

Well no. Some types are not all that over done and not all images are poor.

Like any other type of photography. Oh what hell just give
it all up right Mike?


In article ,
(Michael Scarpitti) wrote:

You may tire of landscapes before you know it. It's overdone, anyway.
And often poorly.

Gregory Blank wrote in message ...
I disagree with Michael as well, there are alot of
bad images in any one catagory. But there alot great scenics done
as well. Mike likes to generalize to suit his personal taste
or lack of it, in his case.

You really don't think there's too much bad landscape photography
being created? Stop at your local library some time and look at the
'show of the month'.




In article ,
"No One" wrote:

Well no. Some types are not all that over done and not all images are poor.

Like any other type of photography. Oh what hell just give
it all up right Mike?


In article ,
(Michael Scarpitti) wrote:

You may tire of landscapes before you know it. It's overdone, anyway.
And often poorly.

Its not that there is too much of any one type of "bad" photography
its that anyone with a camera can consider or aspire them self to be an
"artist" of a specific tyoe take yourself as an example :-) Not to say
that anyone should be denied the right to try mind you, but we all have
our own personal tastes. In essence I really don't care what other
photographer's photograph I just don't have the time to closely follow
other peoples work at this point. Since I am fairly open minded (Or so I
have been told) it has to be rather bad to make me cringe.

Realistically if any project overshadows the "artist" its time to move
on,...few artists/photographers can say they moved on in time to avoid
being type cast. Look at the work of Thomas Kincade, some people love
his stuff and can't enough. Surely the man is laughing all the way to
the bank. But I am sure he still likes what he does, do you think he
really cares what some critic says as long as his work sells? And who is
the critic who never created anything that other people responded
favorably to?


In article ,
(Michael Scarpitti) wrote:

Gregory Blank wrote in message
...
I disagree with Michael as well, there are alot of
bad images in any one catagory. But there alot great scenics done
as well. Mike likes to generalize to suit his personal taste
or lack of it, in his case.

You really don't think there's too much bad landscape photography
being created? Stop at your local library some time and look at the
'show of the month'.

--
LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

Its not that there is too much of any one type of "bad" photography
its that anyone with a camera can consider or aspire them self to be an
"artist" of a specific tyoe take yourself as an example :-) Not to say
that anyone should be denied the right to try mind you, but we all have
our own personal tastes. In essence I really don't care what other
photographer's photograph I just don't have the time to closely follow
other peoples work at this point. Since I am fairly open minded (Or so I
have been told) it has to be rather bad to make me cringe.

Realistically if any project overshadows the "artist" its time to move
on,...few artists/photographers can say they moved on in time to avoid
being type cast. Look at the work of Thomas Kincade, some people love
his stuff and can't enough. Surely the man is laughing all the way to
the bank. But I am sure he still likes what he does, do you think he
really cares what some critic says as long as his work sells? And who is
the critic who never created anything that other people responded
favorably to?


In article ,
(Michael Scarpitti) wrote:

Gregory Blank wrote in message
...
I disagree with Michael as well, there are alot of
bad images in any one catagory. But there alot great scenics done
as well. Mike likes to generalize to suit his personal taste
or lack of it, in his case.

You really don't think there's too much bad landscape photography
being created? Stop at your local library some time and look at the
'show of the month'.

--
LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

Michael Scarpitti wrote:
: Frank Pittel wrote in message ...
: This type of stupidity is why scarpitti has no credibility in this or any other
: newsgroup. I'm sure he's never heard about press cameras or Weegee.


: They're not made anymore, sonny. Nor are press films. Remember Royal
: Pan? Gone. Arrow Pan? Gone. Super Panchro Press Type B? Gone.

I would rather use a high quality modern film such as Tmax100 or Tmax400 others
might prefer Tri-x.

: And I'm sure you can stroll into your local camera shop and find NEW
: Graflexes.

Don't need to. There are a lot high quality used ones available. If for some
idiotic reason I would only want to use a new camera I can go into a local
camera store and buy a horseman or Toyo press camera. You need to expand
your horizons a little and look past the brand name. There's a whole world
beyond leica and hasselblad.

: Weegee? I saw his stuff when I was a kid, before you even HEARD of
: silver halides.

It's good to see that you're backing off of your idiotic claim that spontaneity
is out of the question with LF photography.


: WE REALLY DON'T NEED ANY MORE LANDSCAPE PHOTOGRAPHERS.

: There are LOTS of other things to photograph that are underdone,
: Frank:

: Her are some I suggest YOU try:

: The openings of active volcanos.

: Lava flows.

: Mud slides.

: Hurricanes.

: Terrorist, Mafia, and KKK meetings.

: Nuclear Tests.

All real good ideas. Why don't you give some of them a try.



:
:
: Michael Scarpitti wrote:
: : "Bert" wrote in message ...
: : Hi,
: :
: : I've just discovered your newsgroup, so here goes!
: :
: : I want to move up from 35mm / digital because for me quality of final image
: : is important.
:
: : What kind of photography is important to you? That's really the
: : question. You can get really high quality images with 4 x 5. but
: : spontaneity is out of the question. There are no motorized 4 x 5
: : cameras (except large roll aerial cameras).
:
: : I'm unsure wether to go to 6x6 or right into 5x4 (shooting
: : mainly ladscapes).
:
:
: : You may tire of landscapes before you know it. It's overdone, anyway.
: : And often poorly.
:
: : I've seen the quality you can get from 5x4 (fantastic),
: : but I have some concerns and questions. If anyone can advise or maybe there
: : is a 'beginners website', a link of two would be appreciated. I'd add that I
: : like to take my time over taking a photograph, so setting up and time isn't
: : a problem.
: :
: : Here are some of my questions:
: :
: : Cost is not an issue, and I appreciate finest engineering / optical quality,
: : so recommendations for suitable cameras please (Ebony? Hasselblad - is the
: : SWC worth considering?)
: :
: : How much 'better' is 5x4" over top quality 6x6cm (typically I'd want
: : enlargements to A2/A1)
: :
: : What's the best lens available (wide-angle)?
: :
: : I've been told you need to take the lenses apart to mount on the board, is
: : this difficult or can it be done by the dealer?
: :
: : Is the fuji quickload system worth considering?
: :
: : How do you develop the film (!) - how easy/difficult is it compared to
: : processing 35mm?
: :
: : On a picture by picture basis, how much does it cost on average to process
: : and print the relative formats?
: :
: :
: : I have a hundred more questions!
: :
: : Any help or comments appreciated.
: :
: : Regards
: :
: : Steve

--




Keep working millions on welfare depend on you
-------------------