'cool' temperature lights

the ballasts in the 'shoplite' units are 60mhz - what is the result or
negative effect of using these vs the high frequency 30-40khz ballasts you
wrote about - does it have to do with flicker or col or....?



Use high frequency ballasts if you're going to try that.
Standard ballasts are 60Hz. The high frequency ones are
something like 30-40Khz. Same tubes work for both ballasts.

The problem is how to control/position a bank of lights.

Take a look at:


http://www.goodmart.com/products/bul...w_in_base_dimm
able.htm

They have HF dimmable, various color temp screw-in bulbs.The max
bulb is 20 watt but they are much smaller than a shoplight. Four
bulbs would be 80watt. Also would give you more adjustable light
levels. I'd estimate 80 watt fluorescent is about 240watt standard
bulbs.

Wes

Tsotsi wrote:
I just bought a bunch of 48 inch "shoplights" from the hardware store -
the
units are all wired up and ready to plug in. A bank of 10 units would
give a
4 foot x 4 foot light bank - all connected to a good power bar. With 2
tubes
in each unit at 40W per tube = 80W, 10 units would draw 800watts which
should be ok for a household circuit. I found Philips "natural sunshine"
48
inch tubes rated at 5000K and 92 CRI. What do you all think of this
plan?

--
xx
"Bandicoot" wrote in message
...

"Tsotsi" wrote in message
...

I need to buy or make some cool lights (as close to daylight/5500K) as
I

can

get, & that are a reasonable weight, are portable, and give a decent

amount

of f-stop/shutter speed - I cannot use flash/strobe and
tungsten/halogen
lights are too hot. Lowell make a unit called Scandles but it's only

200w

and I am sure you cant get much of an exposure from them. Can anyone

share

their experience?
thanks
Frank


HMI is one solution, the one the movies use. Expensive, and you need a
ballast as well as the lamphead, but it is reasonably portable. The

flicker

rate is extremely high, making any flicker virtually non-existent when
compared to tungssten lamps, which makes it much better for use with
scanning digital backs. It is also almost a point source, so can give

very

hard light if yo want it, or be modified as appropriate.

There are several makes, but the only one I'm familiar with is the
Elinchrom: this has a colour temperature of 5,800K. It is a 575W lamp,

but

be aware that HMI is much more efficient than tungsten, so it is a lot
brighter than a 575W tungsten lamp or photoflood would be: the Elinchrom
produces 14,000 Lux, whihc is about the same as a 2,000W tungsten
halogen
lamp. The Elinchrom takes all the same reflectors, softboxes, snoots,
fresnels and whatever else as their flash heads do.

MSR and CID lamps are more or less similar technology to HMI, but I
really
don't know anything about these types.

Photographic flourescents are the other option. These have a very near
daylight 'temperature' (in inverted commas because flourescent doesn't
behave like a black-body source, so strictly it doesn't have a colour
temperature). However, because the peaks and troughs in their emission

are

rather different to other sources, they tend not to appear quite the
same

on

different films - not a massive difference but enough to merit some

testing

before investing a lot of time or money.

KinoFlo are the best known manufacturer of these types of lights. They

tend

to be large, and linear, of course, because of the shape of the tubes.

This

makes for a large light source, but the light is not as soft as the size
alone would suggest - it seems quite attractive when I've seen other

people

use it, though I haven't done so myself. Popular with fashion
photographers.

Power is lower than HMI sources, but even so be aware that flourescents

are

far more efficient than tungsten lights, and so a direct Watt for Watt
comparison is extremely misleading. Thus the Scandles you mention are

going

to be 'worth' a lot more in light output than that 200W power
consumption
suggests if you are comparing them to a tungsten lamp - you could ask
the
manufacturer for a Lux value.

HMI is much cooler running than a tungsten halogen of equivalent

brightness,

but obviously flourescents are much cooler still, hence their other
group

of

fans: food photographers.

A lot of people hire both these types of light rather than owning them
outright so you could always do a day's hire and take some light
readings

/

shoot some test shots before committing to a purchase.

Hope that's a bit of help,




Peter

the ballasts in the 'shoplite' units are 60mhz - what is the result or
negative effect of using these vs the high frequency 30-40khz ballasts you
wrote about - does it have to do with flicker or col or....?



Use high frequency ballasts if you're going to try that.
Standard ballasts are 60Hz. The high frequency ones are
something like 30-40Khz. Same tubes work for both ballasts.

The problem is how to control/position a bank of lights.

Take a look at:


http://www.goodmart.com/products/bul...w_in_base_dimm
able.htm

They have HF dimmable, various color temp screw-in bulbs.The max
bulb is 20 watt but they are much smaller than a shoplight. Four
bulbs would be 80watt. Also would give you more adjustable light
levels. I'd estimate 80 watt fluorescent is about 240watt standard
bulbs.

Wes

Tsotsi wrote:
I just bought a bunch of 48 inch "shoplights" from the hardware store -
the
units are all wired up and ready to plug in. A bank of 10 units would
give a
4 foot x 4 foot light bank - all connected to a good power bar. With 2
tubes
in each unit at 40W per tube = 80W, 10 units would draw 800watts which
should be ok for a household circuit. I found Philips "natural sunshine"
48
inch tubes rated at 5000K and 92 CRI. What do you all think of this
plan?

--
xx
"Bandicoot" wrote in message
...

"Tsotsi" wrote in message
...

I need to buy or make some cool lights (as close to daylight/5500K) as
I

can

get, & that are a reasonable weight, are portable, and give a decent

amount

of f-stop/shutter speed - I cannot use flash/strobe and
tungsten/halogen
lights are too hot. Lowell make a unit called Scandles but it's only

200w

and I am sure you cant get much of an exposure from them. Can anyone

share

their experience?
thanks
Frank


HMI is one solution, the one the movies use. Expensive, and you need a
ballast as well as the lamphead, but it is reasonably portable. The

flicker

rate is extremely high, making any flicker virtually non-existent when
compared to tungssten lamps, which makes it much better for use with
scanning digital backs. It is also almost a point source, so can give

very

hard light if yo want it, or be modified as appropriate.

There are several makes, but the only one I'm familiar with is the
Elinchrom: this has a colour temperature of 5,800K. It is a 575W lamp,

but

be aware that HMI is much more efficient than tungsten, so it is a lot
brighter than a 575W tungsten lamp or photoflood would be: the Elinchrom
produces 14,000 Lux, whihc is about the same as a 2,000W tungsten
halogen
lamp. The Elinchrom takes all the same reflectors, softboxes, snoots,
fresnels and whatever else as their flash heads do.

MSR and CID lamps are more or less similar technology to HMI, but I
really
don't know anything about these types.

Photographic flourescents are the other option. These have a very near
daylight 'temperature' (in inverted commas because flourescent doesn't
behave like a black-body source, so strictly it doesn't have a colour
temperature). However, because the peaks and troughs in their emission

are

rather different to other sources, they tend not to appear quite the
same

on

different films - not a massive difference but enough to merit some

testing

before investing a lot of time or money.

KinoFlo are the best known manufacturer of these types of lights. They

tend

to be large, and linear, of course, because of the shape of the tubes.

This

makes for a large light source, but the light is not as soft as the size
alone would suggest - it seems quite attractive when I've seen other

people

use it, though I haven't done so myself. Popular with fashion
photographers.

Power is lower than HMI sources, but even so be aware that flourescents

are

far more efficient than tungsten lights, and so a direct Watt for Watt
comparison is extremely misleading. Thus the Scandles you mention are

going

to be 'worth' a lot more in light output than that 200W power
consumption
suggests if you are comparing them to a tungsten lamp - you could ask
the
manufacturer for a Lux value.

HMI is much cooler running than a tungsten halogen of equivalent

brightness,

but obviously flourescents are much cooler still, hence their other
group

of

fans: food photographers.

A lot of people hire both these types of light rather than owning them
outright so you could always do a day's hire and take some light
readings

/

shoot some test shots before committing to a purchase.

Hope that's a bit of help,




Peter

The only bulbs on that page that seem to meet the criteria are

http://www.goodmart.com/products/74194.htm
Color Temp = 5100 deg K
CRI = 84
Initial Lumens at 25C=1200

http://www.goodmart.com/products/213696.htm
Color Temp = 5100 deg K
CRI = 84
Lumens=1,200

http://www.goodmart.com/products/213709.htm
Color Temp = 5100 deg K
CRI = 84
Lumens: 1,020

All have an internal ballast, frequency of 45 kHz.

The CRI of 84 is a bit *low* for photographic work, and at a price of $20 to $25 each,
they are just a bit costly ... particularly since you will need to set up somewhere
between 8 and 32 of them in an array.












"wsb" wrote in message ...


Use high frequency ballasts if you're going to try that.
Standard ballasts are 60Hz. The high frequency ones are
something like 30-40Khz. Same tubes work for both ballasts.

The problem is how to control/position a bank of lights.

Take a look at:

http://www.goodmart.com/products/bul...dimmable.ht m

They have HF dimmable, various color temp screw-in bulbs.The max
bulb is 20 watt but they are much smaller than a shoplight. Four
bulbs would be 80watt. Also would give you more adjustable light
levels. I'd estimate 80 watt fluorescent is about 240watt standard
bulbs.

Wes

Tsotsi wrote:
I just bought a bunch of 48 inch "shoplights" from the hardware store - the
units are all wired up and ready to plug in. A bank of 10 units would give a
4 foot x 4 foot light bank - all connected to a good power bar. With 2 tubes
in each unit at 40W per tube = 80W, 10 units would draw 800watts which
should be ok for a household circuit. I found Philips "natural sunshine" 48
inch tubes rated at 5000K and 92 CRI. What do you all think of this plan?

--
xx
"Bandicoot" wrote in message
...

"Tsotsi" wrote in message
...

I need to buy or make some cool lights (as close to daylight/5500K) as I

can

get, & that are a reasonable weight, are portable, and give a decent

amount

of f-stop/shutter speed - I cannot use flash/strobe and tungsten/halogen
lights are too hot. Lowell make a unit called Scandles but it's only

200w

and I am sure you cant get much of an exposure from them. Can anyone

share

their experience?
thanks
Frank


HMI is one solution, the one the movies use. Expensive, and you need a
ballast as well as the lamphead, but it is reasonably portable. The

flicker

rate is extremely high, making any flicker virtually non-existent when
compared to tungssten lamps, which makes it much better for use with
scanning digital backs. It is also almost a point source, so can give

very

hard light if yo want it, or be modified as appropriate.

There are several makes, but the only one I'm familiar with is the
Elinchrom: this has a colour temperature of 5,800K. It is a 575W lamp,

but

be aware that HMI is much more efficient than tungsten, so it is a lot
brighter than a 575W tungsten lamp or photoflood would be: the Elinchrom
produces 14,000 Lux, whihc is about the same as a 2,000W tungsten halogen
lamp. The Elinchrom takes all the same reflectors, softboxes, snoots,
fresnels and whatever else as their flash heads do.

MSR and CID lamps are more or less similar technology to HMI, but I really
don't know anything about these types.

Photographic flourescents are the other option. These have a very near
daylight 'temperature' (in inverted commas because flourescent doesn't
behave like a black-body source, so strictly it doesn't have a colour
temperature). However, because the peaks and troughs in their emission

are

rather different to other sources, they tend not to appear quite the same

on

different films - not a massive difference but enough to merit some

testing

before investing a lot of time or money.

KinoFlo are the best known manufacturer of these types of lights. They

tend

to be large, and linear, of course, because of the shape of the tubes.

This

makes for a large light source, but the light is not as soft as the size
alone would suggest - it seems quite attractive when I've seen other

people

use it, though I haven't done so myself. Popular with fashion
photographers.

Power is lower than HMI sources, but even so be aware that flourescents

are

far more efficient than tungsten lights, and so a direct Watt for Watt
comparison is extremely misleading. Thus the Scandles you mention are

going

to be 'worth' a lot more in light output than that 200W power consumption
suggests if you are comparing them to a tungsten lamp - you could ask the
manufacturer for a Lux value.

HMI is much cooler running than a tungsten halogen of equivalent

brightness,

but obviously flourescents are much cooler still, hence their other group

of

fans: food photographers.

A lot of people hire both these types of light rather than owning them
outright so you could always do a day's hire and take some light readings

/

shoot some test shots before committing to a purchase.

Hope that's a bit of help,




Peter

The only bulbs on that page that seem to meet the criteria are

http://www.goodmart.com/products/74194.htm
Color Temp = 5100 deg K
CRI = 84
Initial Lumens at 25C=1200

http://www.goodmart.com/products/213696.htm
Color Temp = 5100 deg K
CRI = 84
Lumens=1,200

http://www.goodmart.com/products/213709.htm
Color Temp = 5100 deg K
CRI = 84
Lumens: 1,020

All have an internal ballast, frequency of 45 kHz.

The CRI of 84 is a bit *low* for photographic work, and at a price of $20 to $25 each,
they are just a bit costly ... particularly since you will need to set up somewhere
between 8 and 32 of them in an array.












"wsb" wrote in message ...


Use high frequency ballasts if you're going to try that.
Standard ballasts are 60Hz. The high frequency ones are
something like 30-40Khz. Same tubes work for both ballasts.

The problem is how to control/position a bank of lights.

Take a look at:

http://www.goodmart.com/products/bul...dimmable.ht m

They have HF dimmable, various color temp screw-in bulbs.The max
bulb is 20 watt but they are much smaller than a shoplight. Four
bulbs would be 80watt. Also would give you more adjustable light
levels. I'd estimate 80 watt fluorescent is about 240watt standard
bulbs.

Wes

Tsotsi wrote:
I just bought a bunch of 48 inch "shoplights" from the hardware store - the
units are all wired up and ready to plug in. A bank of 10 units would give a
4 foot x 4 foot light bank - all connected to a good power bar. With 2 tubes
in each unit at 40W per tube = 80W, 10 units would draw 800watts which
should be ok for a household circuit. I found Philips "natural sunshine" 48
inch tubes rated at 5000K and 92 CRI. What do you all think of this plan?

--
xx
"Bandicoot" wrote in message
...

"Tsotsi" wrote in message
...

I need to buy or make some cool lights (as close to daylight/5500K) as I

can

get, & that are a reasonable weight, are portable, and give a decent

amount

of f-stop/shutter speed - I cannot use flash/strobe and tungsten/halogen
lights are too hot. Lowell make a unit called Scandles but it's only

200w

and I am sure you cant get much of an exposure from them. Can anyone

share

their experience?
thanks
Frank


HMI is one solution, the one the movies use. Expensive, and you need a
ballast as well as the lamphead, but it is reasonably portable. The

flicker

rate is extremely high, making any flicker virtually non-existent when
compared to tungssten lamps, which makes it much better for use with
scanning digital backs. It is also almost a point source, so can give

very

hard light if yo want it, or be modified as appropriate.

There are several makes, but the only one I'm familiar with is the
Elinchrom: this has a colour temperature of 5,800K. It is a 575W lamp,

but

be aware that HMI is much more efficient than tungsten, so it is a lot
brighter than a 575W tungsten lamp or photoflood would be: the Elinchrom
produces 14,000 Lux, whihc is about the same as a 2,000W tungsten halogen
lamp. The Elinchrom takes all the same reflectors, softboxes, snoots,
fresnels and whatever else as their flash heads do.

MSR and CID lamps are more or less similar technology to HMI, but I really
don't know anything about these types.

Photographic flourescents are the other option. These have a very near
daylight 'temperature' (in inverted commas because flourescent doesn't
behave like a black-body source, so strictly it doesn't have a colour
temperature). However, because the peaks and troughs in their emission

are

rather different to other sources, they tend not to appear quite the same

on

different films - not a massive difference but enough to merit some

testing

before investing a lot of time or money.

KinoFlo are the best known manufacturer of these types of lights. They

tend

to be large, and linear, of course, because of the shape of the tubes.

This

makes for a large light source, but the light is not as soft as the size
alone would suggest - it seems quite attractive when I've seen other

people

use it, though I haven't done so myself. Popular with fashion
photographers.

Power is lower than HMI sources, but even so be aware that flourescents

are

far more efficient than tungsten lights, and so a direct Watt for Watt
comparison is extremely misleading. Thus the Scandles you mention are

going

to be 'worth' a lot more in light output than that 200W power consumption
suggests if you are comparing them to a tungsten lamp - you could ask the
manufacturer for a Lux value.

HMI is much cooler running than a tungsten halogen of equivalent

brightness,

but obviously flourescents are much cooler still, hence their other group

of

fans: food photographers.

A lot of people hire both these types of light rather than owning them
outright so you could always do a day's hire and take some light readings

/

shoot some test shots before committing to a purchase.

Hope that's a bit of help,




Peter

Tsotsi wrote:
the ballasts in the 'shoplite' units are 60mhz - what is the result or
negative effect of using these vs the high frequency 30-40khz ballasts you
wrote about - does it have to do with flicker or col or....?



Don't know of any ballast rated at 60mhz. The standard ones are 60Hz.
Basically, fluorescent bulbs flicker at the given frequency.That will
effect what shutter speed you can use. By using a high frequency
electronic ballast, you can pretty much use any shutter speed,
within reason.If your shutter speed is too high, you get into timing
problems and exposures can vary from exposure to exposure depending
on the number of flickers your image records.

As another post mentioned, the CRI is a little low. Your shoplite bulb
CRI is better. There are compact fluorescents that go to the low
90's for a CRI.I haven't tried this arrangement but have been looking
into it as you are now.

If you want to still use a shoplite with HF ballast, the best bulb I've
seen specs on is the Triten 950 for 5000K lights.

For your current setup, I'd say the ballasts will be a problem if they're
not HF.

Wes



Use high frequency ballasts if you're going to try that.
Standard ballasts are 60Hz. The high frequency ones are
something like 30-40Khz. Same tubes work for both ballasts.

The problem is how to control/position a bank of lights.

Take a look at:



http://www.goodmart.com/products/bul...w_in_base_dimm
able.htm

They have HF dimmable, various color temp screw-in bulbs.The max
bulb is 20 watt but they are much smaller than a shoplight. Four
bulbs would be 80watt. Also would give you more adjustable light
levels. I'd estimate 80 watt fluorescent is about 240watt standard
bulbs.

Wes

Tsotsi wrote:

I just bought a bunch of 48 inch "shoplights" from the hardware store -

the

units are all wired up and ready to plug in. A bank of 10 units would

give a

4 foot x 4 foot light bank - all connected to a good power bar. With 2

tubes

in each unit at 40W per tube = 80W, 10 units would draw 800watts which
should be ok for a household circuit. I found Philips "natural sunshine"

48

inch tubes rated at 5000K and 92 CRI. What do you all think of this

plan?

--

Tsotsi wrote:
the ballasts in the 'shoplite' units are 60mhz - what is the result or
negative effect of using these vs the high frequency 30-40khz ballasts you
wrote about - does it have to do with flicker or col or....?



Don't know of any ballast rated at 60mhz. The standard ones are 60Hz.
Basically, fluorescent bulbs flicker at the given frequency.That will
effect what shutter speed you can use. By using a high frequency
electronic ballast, you can pretty much use any shutter speed,
within reason.If your shutter speed is too high, you get into timing
problems and exposures can vary from exposure to exposure depending
on the number of flickers your image records.

As another post mentioned, the CRI is a little low. Your shoplite bulb
CRI is better. There are compact fluorescents that go to the low
90's for a CRI.I haven't tried this arrangement but have been looking
into it as you are now.

If you want to still use a shoplite with HF ballast, the best bulb I've
seen specs on is the Triten 950 for 5000K lights.

For your current setup, I'd say the ballasts will be a problem if they're
not HF.

Wes



Use high frequency ballasts if you're going to try that.
Standard ballasts are 60Hz. The high frequency ones are
something like 30-40Khz. Same tubes work for both ballasts.

The problem is how to control/position a bank of lights.

Take a look at:



http://www.goodmart.com/products/bul...w_in_base_dimm
able.htm

They have HF dimmable, various color temp screw-in bulbs.The max
bulb is 20 watt but they are much smaller than a shoplight. Four
bulbs would be 80watt. Also would give you more adjustable light
levels. I'd estimate 80 watt fluorescent is about 240watt standard
bulbs.

Wes

Tsotsi wrote:

I just bought a bunch of 48 inch "shoplights" from the hardware store -

the

units are all wired up and ready to plug in. A bank of 10 units would

give a

4 foot x 4 foot light bank - all connected to a good power bar. With 2

tubes

in each unit at 40W per tube = 80W, 10 units would draw 800watts which
should be ok for a household circuit. I found Philips "natural sunshine"

48

inch tubes rated at 5000K and 92 CRI. What do you all think of this

plan?

--

Tsotsi wrote:
the ballasts in the 'shoplite' units are 60mhz - what is the result or
negative effect of using these vs the high frequency 30-40khz ballasts you
wrote about - does it have to do with flicker or col or....?



Don't know of any ballast rated at 60mhz. The standard ones are 60Hz.
Basically, fluorescent bulbs flicker at the given frequency.That will
effect what shutter speed you can use. By using a high frequency
electronic ballast, you can pretty much use any shutter speed,
within reason.If your shutter speed is too high, you get into timing
problems and exposures can vary from exposure to exposure depending
on the number of flickers your image records.

As another post mentioned, the CRI is a little low. Your shoplite bulb
CRI is better. There are compact fluorescents that go to the low
90's for a CRI.I haven't tried this arrangement but have been looking
into it as you are now.

If you want to still use a shoplite with HF ballast, the best bulb I've
seen specs on is the Triten 950 for 5000K lights.

For your current setup, I'd say the ballasts will be a problem if they're
not HF.

Wes



Use high frequency ballasts if you're going to try that.
Standard ballasts are 60Hz. The high frequency ones are
something like 30-40Khz. Same tubes work for both ballasts.

The problem is how to control/position a bank of lights.

Take a look at:



http://www.goodmart.com/products/bul...w_in_base_dimm
able.htm

They have HF dimmable, various color temp screw-in bulbs.The max
bulb is 20 watt but they are much smaller than a shoplight. Four
bulbs would be 80watt. Also would give you more adjustable light
levels. I'd estimate 80 watt fluorescent is about 240watt standard
bulbs.

Wes

Tsotsi wrote:

I just bought a bunch of 48 inch "shoplights" from the hardware store -

the

units are all wired up and ready to plug in. A bank of 10 units would

give a

4 foot x 4 foot light bank - all connected to a good power bar. With 2

tubes

in each unit at 40W per tube = 80W, 10 units would draw 800watts which
should be ok for a household circuit. I found Philips "natural sunshine"

48

inch tubes rated at 5000K and 92 CRI. What do you all think of this

plan?

--

RSD99 wrote:
The only bulbs on that page that seem to meet the criteria are

http://www.goodmart.com/products/74194.htm
Color Temp = 5100 deg K
CRI = 84
Initial Lumens at 25C=1200

http://www.goodmart.com/products/213696.htm
Color Temp = 5100 deg K
CRI = 84
Lumens=1,200

http://www.goodmart.com/products/213709.htm
Color Temp = 5100 deg K
CRI = 84
Lumens: 1,020

All have an internal ballast, frequency of 45 kHz.

The CRI of 84 is a bit *low* for photographic work, and at a price of $20 to $25 each,
they are just a bit costly ... particularly since you will need to set up somewhere
between 8 and 32 of them in an array.



I agree. Just do a search on similar terms and you'll find many companies
sell natural light fluorescent bulbs. Lowest cost ones I recall were in
the $15-20 on the various websites I found.

With 8 bulbs, it would be 160w, or roughly 500w standard lighting. 32 bulbs
would be 640w or roughly 2000w standard lighting. You want 32 bulbs
in a single fixture??

As far as price, go to B&H and price the fluorescent systems there to see
why people are off trying to build their own. They should last 10K hours or
more though so you amortize the cost over a long time.

One problem you run into is how to control the light if you make your
own setup.

Wes

"wsb" wrote in message ...


Use high frequency ballasts if you're going to try that.
Standard ballasts are 60Hz. The high frequency ones are
something like 30-40Khz. Same tubes work for both ballasts.

The problem is how to control/position a bank of lights.

Take a look at:

http://www.goodmart.com/products/bul...dimmable.ht m

They have HF dimmable, various color temp screw-in bulbs.The max
bulb is 20 watt but they are much smaller than a shoplight. Four
bulbs would be 80watt. Also would give you more adjustable light
levels. I'd estimate 80 watt fluorescent is about 240watt standard
bulbs.

Wes

Tsotsi wrote:

I just bought a bunch of 48 inch "shoplights" from the hardware store - the
units are all wired up and ready to plug in. A bank of 10 units would give a
4 foot x 4 foot light bank - all connected to a good power bar. With 2 tubes
in each unit at 40W per tube = 80W, 10 units would draw 800watts which
should be ok for a household circuit. I found Philips "natural sunshine" 48
inch tubes rated at 5000K and 92 CRI. What do you all think of this plan?

--
xx
"Bandicoot" wrote in message
. ..


"Tsotsi" wrote in message
om...


I need to buy or make some cool lights (as close to daylight/5500K) as I

can


get, & that are a reasonable weight, are portable, and give a decent

amount


of f-stop/shutter speed - I cannot use flash/strobe and tungsten/halogen
lights are too hot. Lowell make a unit called Scandles but it's only

200w


and I am sure you cant get much of an exposure from them. Can anyone

share


their experience?
thanks
Frank


HMI is one solution, the one the movies use. Expensive, and you need a
ballast as well as the lamphead, but it is reasonably portable. The

flicker


rate is extremely high, making any flicker virtually non-existent when
compared to tungssten lamps, which makes it much better for use with
scanning digital backs. It is also almost a point source, so can give

very


hard light if yo want it, or be modified as appropriate.

There are several makes, but the only one I'm familiar with is the
Elinchrom: this has a colour temperature of 5,800K. It is a 575W lamp,

but


be aware that HMI is much more efficient than tungsten, so it is a lot
brighter than a 575W tungsten lamp or photoflood would be: the Elinchrom
produces 14,000 Lux, whihc is about the same as a 2,000W tungsten halogen
lamp. The Elinchrom takes all the same reflectors, softboxes, snoots,
fresnels and whatever else as their flash heads do.

MSR and CID lamps are more or less similar technology to HMI, but I really
don't know anything about these types.

Photographic flourescents are the other option. These have a very near
daylight 'temperature' (in inverted commas because flourescent doesn't
behave like a black-body source, so strictly it doesn't have a colour
temperature). However, because the peaks and troughs in their emission

are


rather different to other sources, they tend not to appear quite the same

on


different films - not a massive difference but enough to merit some

testing


before investing a lot of time or money.

KinoFlo are the best known manufacturer of these types of lights. They

tend


to be large, and linear, of course, because of the shape of the tubes.

This


makes for a large light source, but the light is not as soft as the size
alone would suggest - it seems quite attractive when I've seen other

people


use it, though I haven't done so myself. Popular with fashion
photographers.

Power is lower than HMI sources, but even so be aware that flourescents

are


far more efficient than tungsten lights, and so a direct Watt for Watt
comparison is extremely misleading. Thus the Scandles you mention are

going


to be 'worth' a lot more in light output than that 200W power consumption
suggests if you are comparing them to a tungsten lamp - you could ask the
manufacturer for a Lux value.

HMI is much cooler running than a tungsten halogen of equivalent

brightness,


but obviously flourescents are much cooler still, hence their other group

of


fans: food photographers.

A lot of people hire both these types of light rather than owning them
outright so you could always do a day's hire and take some light readings

/


shoot some test shots before committing to a purchase.

Hope that's a bit of help,




Peter

RSD99 wrote:
The only bulbs on that page that seem to meet the criteria are

http://www.goodmart.com/products/74194.htm
Color Temp = 5100 deg K
CRI = 84
Initial Lumens at 25C=1200

http://www.goodmart.com/products/213696.htm
Color Temp = 5100 deg K
CRI = 84
Lumens=1,200

http://www.goodmart.com/products/213709.htm
Color Temp = 5100 deg K
CRI = 84
Lumens: 1,020

All have an internal ballast, frequency of 45 kHz.

The CRI of 84 is a bit *low* for photographic work, and at a price of $20 to $25 each,
they are just a bit costly ... particularly since you will need to set up somewhere
between 8 and 32 of them in an array.



I agree. Just do a search on similar terms and you'll find many companies
sell natural light fluorescent bulbs. Lowest cost ones I recall were in
the $15-20 on the various websites I found.

With 8 bulbs, it would be 160w, or roughly 500w standard lighting. 32 bulbs
would be 640w or roughly 2000w standard lighting. You want 32 bulbs
in a single fixture??

As far as price, go to B&H and price the fluorescent systems there to see
why people are off trying to build their own. They should last 10K hours or
more though so you amortize the cost over a long time.

One problem you run into is how to control the light if you make your
own setup.

Wes

"wsb" wrote in message ...


Use high frequency ballasts if you're going to try that.
Standard ballasts are 60Hz. The high frequency ones are
something like 30-40Khz. Same tubes work for both ballasts.

The problem is how to control/position a bank of lights.

Take a look at:

http://www.goodmart.com/products/bul...dimmable.ht m

They have HF dimmable, various color temp screw-in bulbs.The max
bulb is 20 watt but they are much smaller than a shoplight. Four
bulbs would be 80watt. Also would give you more adjustable light
levels. I'd estimate 80 watt fluorescent is about 240watt standard
bulbs.

Wes

Tsotsi wrote:

I just bought a bunch of 48 inch "shoplights" from the hardware store - the
units are all wired up and ready to plug in. A bank of 10 units would give a
4 foot x 4 foot light bank - all connected to a good power bar. With 2 tubes
in each unit at 40W per tube = 80W, 10 units would draw 800watts which
should be ok for a household circuit. I found Philips "natural sunshine" 48
inch tubes rated at 5000K and 92 CRI. What do you all think of this plan?

--
xx
"Bandicoot" wrote in message
. ..


"Tsotsi" wrote in message
om...


I need to buy or make some cool lights (as close to daylight/5500K) as I

can


get, & that are a reasonable weight, are portable, and give a decent

amount


of f-stop/shutter speed - I cannot use flash/strobe and tungsten/halogen
lights are too hot. Lowell make a unit called Scandles but it's only

200w


and I am sure you cant get much of an exposure from them. Can anyone

share


their experience?
thanks
Frank


HMI is one solution, the one the movies use. Expensive, and you need a
ballast as well as the lamphead, but it is reasonably portable. The

flicker


rate is extremely high, making any flicker virtually non-existent when
compared to tungssten lamps, which makes it much better for use with
scanning digital backs. It is also almost a point source, so can give

very


hard light if yo want it, or be modified as appropriate.

There are several makes, but the only one I'm familiar with is the
Elinchrom: this has a colour temperature of 5,800K. It is a 575W lamp,

but


be aware that HMI is much more efficient than tungsten, so it is a lot
brighter than a 575W tungsten lamp or photoflood would be: the Elinchrom
produces 14,000 Lux, whihc is about the same as a 2,000W tungsten halogen
lamp. The Elinchrom takes all the same reflectors, softboxes, snoots,
fresnels and whatever else as their flash heads do.

MSR and CID lamps are more or less similar technology to HMI, but I really
don't know anything about these types.

Photographic flourescents are the other option. These have a very near
daylight 'temperature' (in inverted commas because flourescent doesn't
behave like a black-body source, so strictly it doesn't have a colour
temperature). However, because the peaks and troughs in their emission

are


rather different to other sources, they tend not to appear quite the same

on


different films - not a massive difference but enough to merit some

testing


before investing a lot of time or money.

KinoFlo are the best known manufacturer of these types of lights. They

tend


to be large, and linear, of course, because of the shape of the tubes.

This


makes for a large light source, but the light is not as soft as the size
alone would suggest - it seems quite attractive when I've seen other

people


use it, though I haven't done so myself. Popular with fashion
photographers.

Power is lower than HMI sources, but even so be aware that flourescents

are


far more efficient than tungsten lights, and so a direct Watt for Watt
comparison is extremely misleading. Thus the Scandles you mention are

going


to be 'worth' a lot more in light output than that 200W power consumption
suggests if you are comparing them to a tungsten lamp - you could ask the
manufacturer for a Lux value.

HMI is much cooler running than a tungsten halogen of equivalent

brightness,


but obviously flourescents are much cooler still, hence their other group

of


fans: food photographers.

A lot of people hire both these types of light rather than owning them
outright so you could always do a day's hire and take some light readings

/


shoot some test shots before committing to a purchase.

Hope that's a bit of help,




Peter

RSD99 wrote:
The only bulbs on that page that seem to meet the criteria are

http://www.goodmart.com/products/74194.htm
Color Temp = 5100 deg K
CRI = 84
Initial Lumens at 25C=1200

http://www.goodmart.com/products/213696.htm
Color Temp = 5100 deg K
CRI = 84
Lumens=1,200

http://www.goodmart.com/products/213709.htm
Color Temp = 5100 deg K
CRI = 84
Lumens: 1,020

All have an internal ballast, frequency of 45 kHz.

The CRI of 84 is a bit *low* for photographic work, and at a price of $20 to $25 each,
they are just a bit costly ... particularly since you will need to set up somewhere
between 8 and 32 of them in an array.



I agree. Just do a search on similar terms and you'll find many companies
sell natural light fluorescent bulbs. Lowest cost ones I recall were in
the $15-20 on the various websites I found.

With 8 bulbs, it would be 160w, or roughly 500w standard lighting. 32 bulbs
would be 640w or roughly 2000w standard lighting. You want 32 bulbs
in a single fixture??

As far as price, go to B&H and price the fluorescent systems there to see
why people are off trying to build their own. They should last 10K hours or
more though so you amortize the cost over a long time.

One problem you run into is how to control the light if you make your
own setup.

Wes

"wsb" wrote in message ...


Use high frequency ballasts if you're going to try that.
Standard ballasts are 60Hz. The high frequency ones are
something like 30-40Khz. Same tubes work for both ballasts.

The problem is how to control/position a bank of lights.

Take a look at:

http://www.goodmart.com/products/bul...dimmable.ht m

They have HF dimmable, various color temp screw-in bulbs.The max
bulb is 20 watt but they are much smaller than a shoplight. Four
bulbs would be 80watt. Also would give you more adjustable light
levels. I'd estimate 80 watt fluorescent is about 240watt standard
bulbs.

Wes

Tsotsi wrote:

I just bought a bunch of 48 inch "shoplights" from the hardware store - the
units are all wired up and ready to plug in. A bank of 10 units would give a
4 foot x 4 foot light bank - all connected to a good power bar. With 2 tubes
in each unit at 40W per tube = 80W, 10 units would draw 800watts which
should be ok for a household circuit. I found Philips "natural sunshine" 48
inch tubes rated at 5000K and 92 CRI. What do you all think of this plan?

--
xx
"Bandicoot" wrote in message
. ..


"Tsotsi" wrote in message
om...


I need to buy or make some cool lights (as close to daylight/5500K) as I

can


get, & that are a reasonable weight, are portable, and give a decent

amount


of f-stop/shutter speed - I cannot use flash/strobe and tungsten/halogen
lights are too hot. Lowell make a unit called Scandles but it's only

200w


and I am sure you cant get much of an exposure from them. Can anyone

share


their experience?
thanks
Frank


HMI is one solution, the one the movies use. Expensive, and you need a
ballast as well as the lamphead, but it is reasonably portable. The

flicker


rate is extremely high, making any flicker virtually non-existent when
compared to tungssten lamps, which makes it much better for use with
scanning digital backs. It is also almost a point source, so can give

very


hard light if yo want it, or be modified as appropriate.

There are several makes, but the only one I'm familiar with is the
Elinchrom: this has a colour temperature of 5,800K. It is a 575W lamp,

but


be aware that HMI is much more efficient than tungsten, so it is a lot
brighter than a 575W tungsten lamp or photoflood would be: the Elinchrom
produces 14,000 Lux, whihc is about the same as a 2,000W tungsten halogen
lamp. The Elinchrom takes all the same reflectors, softboxes, snoots,
fresnels and whatever else as their flash heads do.

MSR and CID lamps are more or less similar technology to HMI, but I really
don't know anything about these types.

Photographic flourescents are the other option. These have a very near
daylight 'temperature' (in inverted commas because flourescent doesn't
behave like a black-body source, so strictly it doesn't have a colour
temperature). However, because the peaks and troughs in their emission

are


rather different to other sources, they tend not to appear quite the same

on


different films - not a massive difference but enough to merit some

testing


before investing a lot of time or money.

KinoFlo are the best known manufacturer of these types of lights. They

tend


to be large, and linear, of course, because of the shape of the tubes.

This


makes for a large light source, but the light is not as soft as the size
alone would suggest - it seems quite attractive when I've seen other

people


use it, though I haven't done so myself. Popular with fashion
photographers.

Power is lower than HMI sources, but even so be aware that flourescents

are


far more efficient than tungsten lights, and so a direct Watt for Watt
comparison is extremely misleading. Thus the Scandles you mention are

going


to be 'worth' a lot more in light output than that 200W power consumption
suggests if you are comparing them to a tungsten lamp - you could ask the
manufacturer for a Lux value.

HMI is much cooler running than a tungsten halogen of equivalent

brightness,


but obviously flourescents are much cooler still, hence their other group

of


fans: food photographers.

A lot of people hire both these types of light rather than owning them
outright so you could always do a day's hire and take some light readings

/


shoot some test shots before committing to a purchase.

Hope that's a bit of help,




Peter