Fake high-end Hoya filters (from where else, China)

"RichA" wrote in message
...
http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk...scam-escalates


Looks like they work, albeit not quite as well as the originals.

It always annoys me when big brands go out of their way to rip off
customers - non refillable toner cartridges, SIMs glued in phones, root kits
on CD's and just about anything Apple does, but probably the worst are
companies that freely sell goods in one country and then try to claim that
reselling the same goods in another country in the "grey market" is somehow
criminal. Usually such companies (HP, Yamaha etc.) are trying to protect
high prices in RoB (Rip off Britain) and dishonour warranties.

In article , R. Mark Clayton
wrote:

It always annoys me when big brands go out of their way to rip off
customers - non refillable toner cartridges,

it's not a good idea to refill, but if you're referring to chipped
cartridges, that can be reset too.

SIMs glued in phones,

which phones have glued in sims??? i've heard of locking the sim to the
phone for a short period of time, but that's to stop people from buying
a cheap prepaid phone and using the sim in a smartphone.

root kits
on CD's

that's a problem, but there haven't been very many of those

and just about anything Apple does,

oh? such as what?

but probably the worst are
companies that freely sell goods in one country and then try to claim that
reselling the same goods in another country in the "grey market" is somehow
criminal. Usually such companies (HP, Yamaha etc.) are trying to protect
high prices in RoB (Rip off Britain) and dishonour warranties.

there are legitimate ways to import products. if you circumvent that,
then you're on your own.

nospam wrote:
In article , R. Mark Clayton

SIMs glued in phones,

which phones have glued in sims??? i've heard of locking the sim to the
phone for a short period of time, but that's to stop people from buying
a cheap prepaid phone and using the sim in a smartphone.

You can buy SIMs freely, with no phone or strings attached.
You can buy smartphones with no SIMs and no strings attached.

If you're buying a phone that's (partially) paid for by the
network and they use inflated call and SMS prices to finance
that, the phone may be simlocked (locking the PHONE to the
paying network).

there are legitimate ways to import products. if you circumvent that,
then you're on your own.

The legitimate way is to fulfill all the formalities imposed by
the governments where you ex- and import. What the companies
want is irrelevant, and quite possible illegal.

-Wolfgang

"nospam" wrote in message
...
In article , R. Mark Clayton
wrote:

It always annoys me when big brands go out of their way to rip off
customers - non refillable toner cartridges,

it's not a good idea to refill, but if you're referring to chipped
cartridges, that can be reset too.

It is a good idea to re-use virgin cartridges (same for ink-jets).


SIMs glued in phones,

which phones have glued in sims??? i've heard of locking the sim to the
phone for a short period of time, but that's to stop people from buying
a cheap prepaid phone and using the sim in a smartphone.

It was widely alleged that one UK service provider used to super glue pay &
go SIM's into phones (as well as "locking" them).

Google "weclome to 3's standards of customer service" for more details.


root kits
on CD's

that's a problem, but there haven't been very many of those

Sony did it twice IIRC see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BM...ootkit_scandal


and just about anything Apple does,

oh? such as what?

iTunes, non user changable batteries, incompatible physical interfaces
(whenever they can), incompatible logical interfaces (ibid), no flash etc.

See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critici...itive_behavior

for a very long list.


but probably the worst are
companies that freely sell goods in one country and then try to claim
that
reselling the same goods in another country in the "grey market" is
somehow
criminal. Usually such companies (HP, Yamaha etc.) are trying to protect
high prices in RoB (Rip off Britain) and dishonour warranties.

there are legitimate ways to import products. if you circumvent that,
then you're on your own.

Indeed - oddly Sony are not guilty on this one, with similar prices
worldwide and international warranties.

In article , Wolfgang
Weisselberg wrote:

SIMs glued in phones,

which phones have glued in sims??? i've heard of locking the sim to the
phone for a short period of time, but that's to stop people from buying
a cheap prepaid phone and using the sim in a smartphone.

You can buy SIMs freely, with no phone or strings attached.
You can buy smartphones with no SIMs and no strings attached.

If you're buying a phone that's (partially) paid for by the
network and they use inflated call and SMS prices to finance
that, the phone may be simlocked (locking the PHONE to the
paying network).

all true, but the issue is *gluing* sims into a phone. usually the
phone and sometimes the sim is locked due to subsidies. i've never
heard of gluing sims until now.

In article , R. Mark Clayton
wrote:

It always annoys me when big brands go out of their way to rip off
customers - non refillable toner cartridges,

it's not a good idea to refill, but if you're referring to chipped
cartridges, that can be reset too.

It is a good idea to re-use virgin cartridges (same for ink-jets).

no it isn't. just ask people who have had clogs with refilled
cartridges. refilling can also be messy and most people don't bother
doing it. non-oem ink cartridges are available for those who don't want
to buy the more expensive oem inks, which are often better but not
everyone cares. it's a non-issue.

SIMs glued in phones,

which phones have glued in sims??? i've heard of locking the sim to the
phone for a short period of time, but that's to stop people from buying
a cheap prepaid phone and using the sim in a smartphone.

It was widely alleged that one UK service provider used to super glue pay &
go SIM's into phones (as well as "locking" them).

Google "weclome to 3's standards of customer service" for more details.

apparently that's for prepaid phones to prevent people from buying
subsidized phones cheaply and reselling them, without ever signing up
for service. since the phones are subsidized, the carriers lose money
when this happens. it's a more drastic form of the sim locking at&t
does here with prepaid gophones, which ties the sim to the phone for
six months, after which you can swap it to a new phone.

root kits
on CD's

that's a problem, but there haven't been very many of those

Sony did it twice IIRC see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BM...ootkit_scandal

not that i'm excusing what they did, but twice is not very many.

and just about anything Apple does,

oh? such as what?

iTunes,

how does itunes rip off customers? it's just an app. where do people
come up with this ****?

non user changable batteries,

internal batteries lets the manufacturer put in a bigger battery in the
same space, plus it can take any form, which means longer run time as
well as a smaller device. that is a *benefit* to the customer. most
users never replace the battery anyway.

the batteries they use are also rated to last 5 years which is longer
than the lifetime of the device. apple isn't the only company who has
internal batteries either. others include dell and motorola. every
bluetooth headset has an internal battery and some bluetooth keyboards
have internal batteries. the flip video camera had an internal battery.
the list goes on and you'll be seeing more and more of this in the
future.

incompatible physical interfaces
(whenever they can),

wtf are you talking about? apple uses standard physical interfaces.

incompatible logical interfaces (ibid),

what does that mean?

no flash etc.

flash is proprietary. it's very hypocritical for you to want apple to
support a proprietary standard rather than the open html5 that they
chose.

furthermore, flash didn't work that well on mobile devices and apps
written in it are designed for mouse/keyboard, not touch, so they'd
need to be rewritten anyway. microsoft didn't include flash on windows
phone 7 and flash didn't really work that well on the android devices
that supported it (not all did). adobe couldn't properly fix the
problems so they cancelled mobile flash.

See

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critici..._of_anti-compe
titive_behavior

for a very long list.

wikipedia is not an authoritative source and most of those are flat out
wrong. ios devices are not locked to itunes. you don't even need to use
itunes. the issue about which languages to be used for ios apps is also
wrong and some ios apps are even written in flash and converted to ios
native code (although they don't tend to be as good as ones written
natively from the beginning). foxconn makes products for dozens of
companies and apple is one of the only companies working to improve
conditions there.

On 2012-05-28 02:57:56 -0700, "R. Mark Clayton"
said:


"nospam" wrote in message
...
In article , R. Mark Clayton
wrote:

Le Snip


and just about anything Apple does,

oh? such as what?

iTunes,

iTunes is nothing more than a media player integrated with an online
store. The Android store and Amazon are similar sales showcases. I can
see why non-Mac users who own iPods, iPads, & iPhones might be
bothered, because it disturbs their comfort zone, but for the most part
it is just a piece of working software.

non user changable batteries,

Myth; While batteries are not a simple user replacement, those who have
some skills can get battery replacement kits, with tools, from OWC.

incompatible physical interfaces
(whenever they can),

Like USB, Firewire 400/800, and the new "Thunderbolt"

incompatible logical interfaces (ibid),

???

no flash etc.

Only on iOS devices, which is forward thinking, but frustrating for
those depending on Flash for whatever reason. I certainly have Flash on
this Mac I am typing my response on.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

In article 2012052809582911272-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
Savageduck wrote:

incompatible physical interfaces
(whenever they can),

Like USB, Firewire 400/800, and the new "Thunderbolt"

and ethernet, vga, dvi, displayport, expresscard34, cardbus, and
802.11b/g/n.

"nospam" wrote in message
...
In article , R. Mark Clayton
wrote:

SNIP

root kits
on CD's

that's a problem, but there haven't been very many of those

Sony did it twice IIRC see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BM...ootkit_scandal

not that i'm excusing what they did, but twice is not very many.

and just about anything Apple does,

oh? such as what?

iTunes,

how does itunes rip off customers? it's just an app. where do people
come up with this ****?

So you can put music you already own on an iPhone then?


non user changable batteries,

internal batteries lets the manufacturer put in a bigger battery in the
same space, plus it can take any form, which means longer run time as
well as a smaller device. that is a *benefit* to the customer. most
users never replace the battery anyway.

Not convinced by that


the batteries they use are also rated to last 5 years which is longer
than the lifetime of the device. apple isn't the only company who has
internal batteries either. others include dell and motorola. every
bluetooth headset has an internal battery and some bluetooth keyboards
have internal batteries. the flip video camera had an internal battery.
the list goes on and you'll be seeing more and more of this in the
future.

Fine for small cheap devices - rubbbish for a portable phone on 24/7.


incompatible physical interfaces
(whenever they can),

wtf are you talking about? apple uses standard physical interfaces.

So what is that connector on the bottom?


incompatible logical interfaces (ibid),

what does that mean?

Historically this has meant that Apple has used proprietary protocols, media
organisation etc. to ensure that their stuff is [logically] incompatible
with PC's and / or public standards. They are not as bad as they used to be
on this, but still a reason to avoid their products.


no flash etc.

flash is proprietary. it's very hypocritical for you to want apple to
support a proprietary standard rather than the open html5 that they
chose.

Whilst it is proprietary, like PDF's it is an open standard.


furthermore, flash didn't work that well on mobile devices and apps
written in it are designed for mouse/keyboard, not touch, so they'd
need to be rewritten anyway. microsoft didn't include flash on windows
phone 7 and flash didn't really work that well on the android devices
that supported it (not all did). adobe couldn't properly fix the
problems so they cancelled mobile flash

Shame realy - although some of the critique is valid. See current PC Pro
for a full winge about this.

The really shame is that you have to down load a device specific app' for
everything rather than just running Flash.


See

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critici..._of_anti-compe
titive_behavior

for a very long list.

wikipedia is not an authoritative source and most of those are flat out
wrong. ios devices are not locked to itunes. you don't even need to use
itunes. the issue about which languages to be used for ios apps is also
wrong and some ios apps are even written in flash and converted to ios
native code (although they don't tend to be as good as ones written
natively from the beginning). foxconn makes products for dozens of
companies and apple is one of the only companies working to improve
conditions there.

I would not expect Wiki to be 100% accurate. OTOH it is a bit like the
thief who pleads not guilty to stealing a thousand pounds because he only
stole £999.

In article , R. Mark Clayton
wrote:

and just about anything Apple does,

oh? such as what?

iTunes,

how does itunes rip off customers? it's just an app. where do people
come up with this ****?

So you can put music you already own on an iPhone then?

you've got to be kidding me! where in the world did you get the idea
you couldn't?

of course you can put music you already own on an iphone or ipod!! it
supports standard mp3 and aac and several other formats. do you think
it would sell as well as it has if you couldn't??

in fact, the first ipod came out *before* there was an itunes music
store, so you could *only* use music you already had.

seriously, where do people come up with this ****?

not only that, but music you buy via itunes has no copy protection so
you can use it not just on an ipod/iphone, but on an android device, a
sansia or whatever else you might want to use. even a zune.

non user changable batteries,

internal batteries lets the manufacturer put in a bigger battery in the
same space, plus it can take any form, which means longer run time as
well as a smaller device. that is a *benefit* to the customer. most
users never replace the battery anyway.

Not convinced by that

that's ok, but it's the reason.

the batteries they use are also rated to last 5 years which is longer
than the lifetime of the device. apple isn't the only company who has
internal batteries either. others include dell and motorola. every
bluetooth headset has an internal battery and some bluetooth keyboards
have internal batteries. the flip video camera had an internal battery.
the list goes on and you'll be seeing more and more of this in the
future.

Fine for small cheap devices - rubbbish for a portable phone on 24/7.

it's not rubbish at all. an iphone lasts a day or two in typical use,
which is longer than people are away from a place to plug it in and
since it charges off usb, it can be charged pretty much anywhere.

the reality is that most people never replace their cellphone
batteries, iphone or otherwise. they get a replacement phone when their
contract expires, usually around 2 years.

in other words, why have a replaceable battery when few people actually
will replace it?

incompatible physical interfaces
(whenever they can),

wtf are you talking about? apple uses standard physical interfaces.

So what is that connector on the bottom?

the connector on the iphone? it's a 30 pin dock connector that is
ubiquitous.

you can get cables and accessories anywhere and made by zillions of
different companies. it's not an official standard like usb but it
might as well be one since it's so common. many cars and even some
airplanes have ipod dock connectors.

by the way, non-apple cellphones, tablets and other devices have custom
connectors that are more proprietary. go look at the bottom of a
samsung galaxy tab and you'll see a similar dock connector to what's on
an iphone, but you won't see many accessories for it. also, the first
android phone, the htc g1, didn't even have a standard headphone jack.
you had to use an adapter to use standard headphones.

worse, every device is different. for instance, the car adapter you get
for one android device probably won't work with the one you get to
replace it. that makes it hard for third parties to come up with
accessories.

at least with apple, the dock connector is standard on all iphones,
ipads and ipods, which makes it very easy for third parties to make
stuff to plug into it.

incompatible logical interfaces (ibid),

what does that mean?

Historically this has meant that Apple has used proprietary protocols,

absolute bull****.

apple has long used industry standard protocols (ftp, vnc, ssh, etc.)
and standard formats (mp3, aac, zip, mpeg, pdf, etc.). they are also
big proponents of html5 versus the *proprietary* flash. quite a bit of
os x is open source, and some of it is even used in competitors
products!

microsoft, on the other hand, alters the standards just enough to force
users into using microsoft products. they had custom extensions to html
to lock users into internet explorer and they also push their own
proprietary windows media format rather than use industry standard mp3,
aac or mpeg.

in other words, you have it all backwards.

media
organisation etc. to ensure that their stuff is [logically] incompatible
with PC's and / or public standards.

that doesn't make any sense. how is organizing media incompatible with
a pc, and what is this public standard of media organizing anyway?

They are not as bad as they used to be
on this, but still a reason to avoid their products.

considering it's false, it's not a reason at all.

what's funny is it looks like all your hatred is directed at the wrong
company. i assume you'll be getting rid of your windows system since
you hate proprietary products.

no flash etc.

flash is proprietary. it's very hypocritical for you to want apple to
support a proprietary standard rather than the open html5 that they
chose.

Whilst it is proprietary, like PDF's it is an open standard.

it can't be both. flash is *not* an open standard, it's proprietary to
adobe. html5 *is* an open standard. apple picked the *non* proprietary
one.

by the way, pdf is a native format on a mac. you don't need to install
anything to read or write it.

furthermore, flash didn't work that well on mobile devices and apps
written in it are designed for mouse/keyboard, not touch, so they'd
need to be rewritten anyway. microsoft didn't include flash on windows
phone 7 and flash didn't really work that well on the android devices
that supported it (not all did). adobe couldn't properly fix the
problems so they cancelled mobile flash

Shame realy - although some of the critique is valid. See current PC Pro
for a full winge about this.

why is it a shame? flash sucks on mobile devices. it's slow, it's a cpu
hog (i.e., drains battery), buggy and is a security hole.

have you ever *used* flash on a mobile device? there are better
alternatives, so why do you want to stick with the crappy one?

The really shame is that you have to down load a device specific app' for
everything rather than just running Flash.

why? most sites have non-flash versions so you don't need flash in the
first place and native apps provide a *much* better user experience
than a browser ever could, with or without flash.

it's the same reason why desktop/laptop computers have many different
apps designed for specific tasks, rather than have everything running
in a browser with flash. why should a phone be any different?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critici...ons_of_anti-co
mpe
titive_behavior

for a very long list.

wikipedia is not an authoritative source and most of those are flat out
wrong. ios devices are not locked to itunes. you don't even need to use
itunes. the issue about which languages to be used for ios apps is also
wrong and some ios apps are even written in flash and converted to ios
native code (although they don't tend to be as good as ones written
natively from the beginning). foxconn makes products for dozens of
companies and apple is one of the only companies working to improve
conditions there.

I would not expect Wiki to be 100% accurate.

so why cite it?

OTOH it is a bit like the
thief who pleads not guilty to stealing a thousand pounds because he only
stole £999.

not at all. in this case it's pretty much entirely bogus.