Upgrading from F707 - to what?

Hi,
I have had my Sony DSC-F707 for 4 1/2 years now (time flies...). Before that
I had the F505 and of course the 707 was a great improvement. I have been
largely satisfied with it, but the oversaturated reds are a problem as is
the noise in low-light conditions. I often publish my images in print, so
the current 5 MP F707 is a bit too little, I have to upsample whole-page
images a lot. To avoid this I would need around 8-10 MP.
The reason I haven't upgraded is that the 828 got so bad reviews and then
when the R1 came I was disappointed with the lack of any movie modes and the
loss of the swivel design. The reason I need movie mode is that I often
shoot plants and the voice memo function is indispensable to me, since I
read out loud what the plant variety is. No notepads, and that's the way it
should be in the digital age.
Now, I have the opportunity to buy a used F828 for about $400, with some
extras. I have started to think that maybe that's a viable solution after
all. Some reviewers so give the 828 lots of praise.
So what is your opinion: should I go for the used 828 or are there better
alternatives for a all-in-one prosumer camera with about 8-10 megapixels
with a movie (voice memo) function? I do appreciate a great focal range, but
image quality is more important.


Regards,


--
Lars Forslin

"Doing time on earth"

**************************

"Lars Forslin" wrote in message
...
Hi,
I have had my Sony DSC-F707 for 4 1/2 years now (time flies...). Before
that
I had the F505 and of course the 707 was a great improvement. I have been
largely satisfied with it, but the oversaturated reds are a problem as is
the noise in low-light conditions. I often publish my images in print, so
the current 5 MP F707 is a bit too little, I have to upsample whole-page
images a lot. To avoid this I would need around 8-10 MP.
The reason I haven't upgraded is that the 828 got so bad reviews and then
when the R1 came I was disappointed with the lack of any movie modes and
the
loss of the swivel design. The reason I need movie mode is that I often
shoot plants and the voice memo function is indispensable to me, since I
read out loud what the plant variety is. No notepads, and that's the way
it
should be in the digital age.
Now, I have the opportunity to buy a used F828 for about $400, with some
extras. I have started to think that maybe that's a viable solution after
all. Some reviewers so give the 828 lots of praise.
So what is your opinion: should I go for the used 828 or are there better
alternatives for a all-in-one prosumer camera with about 8-10 megapixels
with a movie (voice memo) function? I do appreciate a great focal range,
but
image quality is more important.


Regards,


--
Lars Forslin

"Doing time on earth"

**************************


In my opinion, the Sony DSC-F828 is a poor camera. The images are even
noisier than your 707 and the colour balance isn't right. But if you want to
stick with Sony and don't want a DSLR, I would have no hesitation in
recommending the DSC-R1. It has a superb lens, going as wide as 24mm
(equivalent), it's sharp, largely free of aberrations and has low distortion
too. The R1's 10MP sensor is way better than the F828's 8MP sensor and,
bottom line, image quality is top notch. It's quite a big camera, but you're
used to bulk with the F707 and the F828 is bigger than the F707.

If you quite like the idea of a DSLR but want live-view, the Olympus E-330
is a very good choice, too, though more expensive. We're giving one away on
DPNow this month - see http://dpnow.com/3241.html.

Ian

Digital Photography Now
The online magazine and community for anyone interested in taking digital
pictures!
http://dpnow.com
DPNow forum and users photo gallery: http://forum.dpnow.com
Win an Olympus E-330 Live View DSLR during December:
http://dpnow.com/3241.html

"Digital Photography Now" wrote:
"Lars Forslin" wrote:
Hi,
I have had my Sony DSC-F707 for 4 1/2 years now (time flies...). Before
that
I had the F505 and of course the 707 was a great improvement. I have been
largely satisfied with it, but the oversaturated reds are a problem as is
the noise in low-light conditions. I often publish my images in print, so
the current 5 MP F707 is a bit too little, I have to upsample whole-page
images a lot. To avoid this I would need around 8-10 MP.

As someone who used to use an F707 extensively, my best guess is that you
aren't going to be happy with any of the current crop of small-sensor
cameras. The F717 remains the very best of that bunch; things have been
going downhill ever since.

It's time to bite the bullet and get a dSLR. As a Canonista, I recommend the
400D, but my friends over at SEEPHOTO (a list heavier on photo content than
tech nerdiness) are making happy noises about their Pentax K10Ds.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos400d/

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/pentaxk10d/

In my opinion, the Sony DSC-F828 is a poor camera. The images are even
noisier than your 707 and the colour balance isn't right. But if you want
to stick with Sony and don't want a DSLR, I would have no hesitation in
recommending the DSC-R1. It has a superb lens, going as wide as 24mm
(equivalent), it's sharp, largely free of aberrations and has low
distortion too. The R1's 10MP sensor is way better than the F828's 8MP
sensor and, bottom line, image quality is top notch. It's quite a big
camera, but you're used to bulk with the F707 and the F828 is bigger than
the F707.

If you quite like the idea of a DSLR but want live-view, the Olympus E-330
is a very good choice, too, though more expensive. We're giving one away
on DPNow this month - see http://dpnow.com/3241.html.

I'd recommend avoiding Olympus; it _might_ end up being the dead end it
looks like to me. Canon has a strong upgrade path and Pentax can use a wide
range of excellent and interesting lenses (and an even stronger upgrade path
if they succeed with the 645Dg).

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan

Thanks for you answer. I have, of course, been considering the R1, it really
has everything i need except for movie (voice memo) mode. I can't really
comprehend why this excellent feature has been removed from most digicams
now, or at least the upper segment.
I think the first Nikon DSLR (was it D1?), even had this feature. Now none
of the DSLR:s has it as far as I know. Wouldn't be too hard to implement,
would it?. Why is there no demand for such a feature? Do people really carry
around a notepad and a pencil these days, along with their cameras and
lenses?

Maybe I stick with the 707 for another while and see what comes up. It's all
DSLR at this time, but that's got to change sometime when people get tired
of carrying lenses around but still want high-quality cameras and images.

Regards,
Lars

"Digital Photography Now" skrev i meddelandet
...

"Lars Forslin" wrote in
message ...
Hi,
I have had my Sony DSC-F707 for 4 1/2 years now (time flies...). Before
that
I had the F505 and of course the 707 was a great improvement. I have been
largely satisfied with it, but the oversaturated reds are a problem as is
the noise in low-light conditions. I often publish my images in print, so
the current 5 MP F707 is a bit too little, I have to upsample whole-page
images a lot. To avoid this I would need around 8-10 MP.
The reason I haven't upgraded is that the 828 got so bad reviews and then
when the R1 came I was disappointed with the lack of any movie modes and
the
loss of the swivel design. The reason I need movie mode is that I often
shoot plants and the voice memo function is indispensable to me, since I
read out loud what the plant variety is. No notepads, and that's the way
it
should be in the digital age.
Now, I have the opportunity to buy a used F828 for about $400, with some
extras. I have started to think that maybe that's a viable solution after
all. Some reviewers so give the 828 lots of praise.
So what is your opinion: should I go for the used 828 or are there better
alternatives for a all-in-one prosumer camera with about 8-10 megapixels
with a movie (voice memo) function? I do appreciate a great focal range,
but
image quality is more important.


Regards,


--
Lars Forslin

"Doing time on earth"

**************************


In my opinion, the Sony DSC-F828 is a poor camera. The images are even
noisier than your 707 and the colour balance isn't right. But if you want
to stick with Sony and don't want a DSLR, I would have no hesitation in
recommending the DSC-R1. It has a superb lens, going as wide as 24mm
(equivalent), it's sharp, largely free of aberrations and has low
distortion too. The R1's 10MP sensor is way better than the F828's 8MP
sensor and, bottom line, image quality is top notch. It's quite a big
camera, but you're used to bulk with the F707 and the F828 is bigger than
the F707.

If you quite like the idea of a DSLR but want live-view, the Olympus E-330
is a very good choice, too, though more expensive. We're giving one away
on DPNow this month - see http://dpnow.com/3241.html.

Ian

Digital Photography Now
The online magazine and community for anyone interested in taking digital
pictures!
http://dpnow.com
DPNow forum and users photo gallery: http://forum.dpnow.com
Win an Olympus E-330 Live View DSLR during December:
http://dpnow.com/3241.html

Hi,
I was suspecting the things you write, that things have been going downhill
since the F717. Too bad I just bought the F707 when the 717 was announced,
and I didn't bother to change.

It seems like there are almost no "prosumer" cameras these days. The build
quality and image quality seems to have gone downhill in the megapixel race.
To me the F828 represents an apex in inovation and build quality. Too bad it
was built around the wrong sensor. I suppose it was a dead end with this
small sensor, but a larger 8 MP sensor would be the right way to go, but no
one has taken that route I think.

Now the R1 looks like it has the image quality I am looking for but
unfortunately Sony entirely skipped the movie modes, laser AF and that
stuff. The ideal would have been an 828 with the lens and sensor from the
R1. I think the R1 is too close to a DSLR, so I think Sony shot themselves
in the foot when they stripped away all the multimedia goodies from the 828.

I have been considering a DSLR and the latest Pentax looks interesting
(K10D). But I really don't want to go back to SLR's. I had an analog one,
and it was too big and so it didn't get used too much. My F707 is really
handy all-in-one package that is easy to bring everywhere and still takes
decent pictures. I can even bring it in my pocket if I want.

Thanks for your input.
Lars


"David J. Littleboy" skrev i meddelandet
...

"Digital Photography Now" wrote:
"Lars Forslin" wrote:
Hi,
I have had my Sony DSC-F707 for 4 1/2 years now (time flies...). Before
that
I had the F505 and of course the 707 was a great improvement. I have
been
largely satisfied with it, but the oversaturated reds are a problem as
is
the noise in low-light conditions. I often publish my images in print,
so the current 5 MP F707 is a bit too little, I have to upsample
whole-page images a lot. To avoid this I would need around 8-10 MP.

As someone who used to use an F707 extensively, my best guess is that you
aren't going to be happy with any of the current crop of small-sensor
cameras. The F717 remains the very best of that bunch; things have been
going downhill ever since.

It's time to bite the bullet and get a dSLR. As a Canonista, I recommend
the 400D, but my friends over at SEEPHOTO (a list heavier on photo content
than tech nerdiness) are making happy noises about their Pentax K10Ds.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos400d/

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/pentaxk10d/

In my opinion, the Sony DSC-F828 is a poor camera. The images are even
noisier than your 707 and the colour balance isn't right. But if you want
to stick with Sony and don't want a DSLR, I would have no hesitation in
recommending the DSC-R1. It has a superb lens, going as wide as 24mm
(equivalent), it's sharp, largely free of aberrations and has low
distortion too. The R1's 10MP sensor is way better than the F828's 8MP
sensor and, bottom line, image quality is top notch. It's quite a big
camera, but you're used to bulk with the F707 and the F828 is bigger than
the F707.

If you quite like the idea of a DSLR but want live-view, the Olympus
E-330 is a very good choice, too, though more expensive. We're giving one
away on DPNow this month - see http://dpnow.com/3241.html.

I'd recommend avoiding Olympus; it _might_ end up being the dead end it
looks like to me. Canon has a strong upgrade path and Pentax can use a
wide range of excellent and interesting lenses (and an even stronger
upgrade path if they succeed with the 645Dg).

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan

"Lars Forslin" wrote in message ...
Thanks for you answer. I have, of course, been considering the R1, it really has everything i need except for movie (voice memo)
mode. I can't really comprehend why this excellent feature has been removed from most digicams now, or at least the upper segment.
I think the first Nikon DSLR (was it D1?), even had this feature. Now none of the DSLR:s has it as far as I know. Wouldn't be too
hard to implement, would it?. Why is there no demand for such a feature? Do people really carry around a notepad and a pencil
these days, along with their cameras and lenses?

Maybe I stick with the 707 for another while and see what comes up. It's all DSLR at this time, but that's got to change sometime
when people get tired of carrying lenses around but still want high-quality cameras and images.

I bought a Sony 707 used after years of not taking many
"fun" pictures. I immediately started shooting again, and
10,000 later, I have slowed down considerably. I like the
image quality of the 707 (excellent at ASA100, very good
at 200, useless at 400 - but the lens is excellent to the corners
even wide open [f2 at the short end]), and I can hand-hold it
more steadily than most other cameras. The shortcomings are
the poor low-light image quality and lack of flash synch for
any but Sony flashes (I can use a flash in auto mode triggered
off the built-in flash, but that has a non-defeatable double-flash
mode, requiring sufficient power in the auxiliary flash for two
quick pops), and the slight sharpening ringing on details
against the sky (but I have a photo editor that easily corrects
this). Since I have a bunch of Nikkor lenses, I looked at
a D1x, D100, D2x, and even a Canon 20D. When shooting
in daylight, I could not see any significant differences except
the lack of ringing with the larger sensors. I decided to save
my money and not carry around large gear again, at least
for now. Unlike you, I have no use for movie and sound
features on a still camera (though I suspect that this interesting
video was shot with a mini-still camera in video mode -
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...q=ithaca&hl=en
and that could be fun!) - I have video cameras that perform
better for this...
--
David Ruether


http://www.ferrario.com/ruether

Thanks for you input. Yes, ISO 100 is great, ISO 200 okay, but I never use
ISO 400. So I would like a camera with better low-light performance for
shooting indoors. I think you have spotted the strengths and weaknesses
right on. I would add the red sensitivity problem to the bad list.
Movies I don't really need, but I want a voice memo function. Do today's
photographers really carry around a notepad and a pencil?
Nikon D1 had voice memo I've been tild, but no dSLR:s since. Why is that?

/Lars


"David Ruether" skrev i meddelandet
...



"Lars Forslin" wrote in
message ...
Thanks for you answer. I have, of course, been considering the R1, it
really has everything i need except for movie (voice memo) mode. I can't
really comprehend why this excellent feature has been removed from most
digicams now, or at least the upper segment.
I think the first Nikon DSLR (was it D1?), even had this feature. Now
none of the DSLR:s has it as far as I know. Wouldn't be too hard to
implement, would it?. Why is there no demand for such a feature? Do
people really carry around a notepad and a pencil these days, along with
their cameras and lenses?

Maybe I stick with the 707 for another while and see what comes up. It's
all DSLR at this time, but that's got to change sometime when people get
tired of carrying lenses around but still want high-quality cameras and
images.

I bought a Sony 707 used after years of not taking many
"fun" pictures. I immediately started shooting again, and
10,000 later, I have slowed down considerably. I like the
image quality of the 707 (excellent at ASA100, very good
at 200, useless at 400 - but the lens is excellent to the corners
even wide open [f2 at the short end]), and I can hand-hold it
more steadily than most other cameras. The shortcomings are
the poor low-light image quality and lack of flash synch for
any but Sony flashes (I can use a flash in auto mode triggered
off the built-in flash, but that has a non-defeatable double-flash
mode, requiring sufficient power in the auxiliary flash for two
quick pops), and the slight sharpening ringing on details
against the sky (but I have a photo editor that easily corrects
this). Since I have a bunch of Nikkor lenses, I looked at
a D1x, D100, D2x, and even a Canon 20D. When shooting
in daylight, I could not see any significant differences except
the lack of ringing with the larger sensors. I decided to save
my money and not carry around large gear again, at least
for now. Unlike you, I have no use for movie and sound
features on a still camera (though I suspect that this interesting
video was shot with a mini-still camera in video mode -
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...q=ithaca&hl=en
and that could be fun!) - I have video cameras that perform
better for this...
--
David Ruether


http://www.ferrario.com/ruether