TLR with continuously variable shutter speed?

Recently, Bob Salomon posted:

In article ,
"Neil Gould" wrote:

Recently, posted:

Does anyone know of a TLR with a continuously variable shutter
speed? In other words the shutter will produced speeds in between
the standard ones i.e. 1/60, 1/125, etc.?
Thanks,
Steve

Yes. I have a mid '50s Rolleiflex TLR that has continuously variable
shutter speeds and aperture.

Neil

No it doesn't.

Given that I double-checked this on the camera before writing the reply,
perhaps you have some other explanation for the fact that there are no
detents, and that the shutter speed varies with the setting of the wheel?

Neil

Recently, dadiOH posted:

Neil Gould wrote:
Recently, dadiOH posted:

Neil Gould wrote:
Recently,
posted:

Does anyone know of a TLR with a continuously variable shutter
speed? In other words the shutter will produced speeds in between
the standard ones i.e. 1/60, 1/125, etc.?
Thanks,
Steve

Yes. I have a mid '50s Rolleiflex TLR that has continuously
variable shutter speeds and aperture.

You do? What model number might that marvel be?

It's a Rolleiflex with a 3.5f Tessar and no meter. I've seen
conflicting opinions of what the "model number" might be, but I've
traced the serial number to find out the approximate date of
manufacture. I've had it for about 30 years, now.

That being the case, the shutter speeds are fixed. Yes, you can
rotate the speed indicator so that an area between two marked speeds
is displayed but that doesn't mean you are *getting* an intermediate
shutter speed...you'll be getting one or the other.

I understand your skepticism, but I suppose the only way to know for sure
would be with a light timer. Unfortunately, I don't have one.

Neil

Recently, Michael lakediver.houston.rr.com posted:

"Neil Gould" wrote in message
...
Recently, Bob Salomon posted:

In article ,
"Neil Gould" wrote:

Recently, posted:

Does anyone know of a TLR with a continuously variable shutter
speed? In other words the shutter will produced speeds in between
the standard ones i.e. 1/60, 1/125, etc.?
Thanks,
Steve

Yes. I have a mid '50s Rolleiflex TLR that has continuously
variable shutter speeds and aperture.

Neil

No it doesn't.

Given that I double-checked this on the camera before writing the
reply, perhaps you have some other explanation for the fact that
there are no detents, and that the shutter speed varies with the
setting of the wheel?

Neil



Speeds are governed by an escapement which rides on a continuous
stepped cam. As you rotate the speed selection knob the cam rotates
to the corresponding shutter speed at that speed's step. At say one
second the lever engages more of the escapement causing the speed to
be slower while as you increase the speed there is less engagement of
the escapement hence the fast the shutter. It's been a few years
since I've had a Rollie TLR apart, IIRC most if not all the Rollie's
had the detent located behind the front panel of the camera on the
speed selector ring.

My curiosity has been aroused, so I got the camera out and tried a simple
test. I set the shutter speed at 1/2, 1, and somewhere in between the two.
After about a half dozen tries on each setting, I can say with confidence
that the shutter is open for 3 different durations. Whatever that implies.

Neil

Neil Gould wrote:
Recently, dadiOH posted:

Neil Gould wrote:
Recently, dadiOH posted:

Neil Gould wrote:
Recently,
posted:

Does anyone know of a TLR with a continuously variable shutter
speed? In other words the shutter will produced speeds in
between the standard ones i.e. 1/60, 1/125, etc.?
Thanks,
Steve

Yes. I have a mid '50s Rolleiflex TLR that has continuously
variable shutter speeds and aperture.

You do? What model number might that marvel be?

It's a Rolleiflex with a 3.5f Tessar and no meter. I've seen
conflicting opinions of what the "model number" might be, but I've
traced the serial number to find out the approximate date of
manufacture. I've had it for about 30 years, now.

That being the case, the shutter speeds are fixed. Yes, you can
rotate the speed indicator so that an area between two marked
speeds is displayed but that doesn't mean you are *getting* an
intermediate shutter speed...you'll be getting one or the other.

I understand your skepticism, but I suppose the only way to know
for sure would be with a light timer. Unfortunately, I don't have
one.

It isn't skepticism, it is fact. I've used Rolleis for close to 60
years...the two I now have were purchased new in 1955-56, $250 each.
With 3.5 Tessar lenses (a mistake, the Xenar are/were better).

If you want to prove it to yourself, you don't need anything
fancy...just mark one blade of a slow moving fan and photograph it to
see how far the marked blade moves.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

"Neil Gould" wrote in message
...
Recently, Bob Salomon posted:

In article ,
"Neil Gould" wrote:

Recently, posted:

Does anyone know of a TLR with a continuously variable shutter
speed? In other words the shutter will produced speeds in between
the standard ones i.e. 1/60, 1/125, etc.?
Thanks,
Steve

Yes. I have a mid '50s Rolleiflex TLR that has continuously variable
shutter speeds and aperture.

Neil

No it doesn't.

Given that I double-checked this on the camera before writing the reply,
perhaps you have some other explanation for the fact that there are no
detents, and that the shutter speed varies with the setting of the wheel?

Neil



Speeds are governed by an escapement which rides on a continuous stepped
cam. As you rotate the speed selection knob the cam rotates to the
corresponding shutter speed at that speed's step. At say one second the
lever engages more of the escapement causing the speed to be slower while as
you increase the speed there is less engagement of the escapement hence the
fast the shutter. It's been a few years since I've had a Rollie TLR apart,
IIRC most if not all the Rollie's had the detent located behind the front
panel of the camera on the speed selector ring.

In article ,
"Neil Gould" wrote:

Recently, Bob Salomon posted:

In article ,
"Neil Gould" wrote:

Recently, posted:

Does anyone know of a TLR with a continuously variable shutter
speed? In other words the shutter will produced speeds in between
the standard ones i.e. 1/60, 1/125, etc.?
Thanks,
Steve

Yes. I have a mid '50s Rolleiflex TLR that has continuously variable
shutter speeds and aperture.

Neil

No it doesn't.

Given that I double-checked this on the camera before writing the reply,
perhaps you have some other explanation for the fact that there are no
detents, and that the shutter speed varies with the setting of the wheel?

Neil

Your camera needs a CLA by a competent repair man. Or women. Rollei
TLR's did not have continuously variable shutter speeds. The only
cameras Rollei made with a continuously variable shutter was the Rollei
SL2000.3000 series. The closest to continuously variable 6x6 from Rollei
was the Linear Motor shutters in the 6008 series and that was adjustable
in 1/3rd steps from 30 seconds to 1/1000 with PQ lenses from Rollei and
1/500 with their other lenses.

--
To reply no_ HPMarketing Corp.

"Neil Gould" wrote in message
. net...
Recently, Michael lakediver.houston.rr.com posted:

"Neil Gould" wrote in message
...
Recently, Bob Salomon posted:

In article ,
"Neil Gould" wrote:

Recently, posted:

Does anyone know of a TLR with a continuously variable shutter
speed? In other words the shutter will produced speeds in between
the standard ones i.e. 1/60, 1/125, etc.?
Thanks,
Steve

Yes. I have a mid '50s Rolleiflex TLR that has continuously
variable shutter speeds and aperture.

Neil

No it doesn't.

Given that I double-checked this on the camera before writing the
reply, perhaps you have some other explanation for the fact that
there are no detents, and that the shutter speed varies with the
setting of the wheel?

Neil



Speeds are governed by an escapement which rides on a continuous
stepped cam. As you rotate the speed selection knob the cam rotates
to the corresponding shutter speed at that speed's step. At say one
second the lever engages more of the escapement causing the speed to
be slower while as you increase the speed there is less engagement of
the escapement hence the fast the shutter. It's been a few years
since I've had a Rollie TLR apart, IIRC most if not all the Rollie's
had the detent located behind the front panel of the camera on the
speed selector ring.

My curiosity has been aroused, so I got the camera out and tried a simple
test. I set the shutter speed at 1/2, 1, and somewhere in between the two.
After about a half dozen tries on each setting, I can say with confidence
that the shutter is open for 3 different durations. Whatever that implies.

Neil

While possible that was not the way the shutter was designed and the
implication could be that the shutter needs a cleaning and an adjustment
also that you will not have any way to know what speed the shutter is
running when you are on the edge of one of the steps.

On Mon, 28 May 2007 19:19:03 GMT, "Neil Gould"
wrote:

My curiosity has been aroused, so I got the camera out and tried a simple
test. I set the shutter speed at 1/2, 1, and somewhere in between the two.
After about a half dozen tries on each setting, I can say with confidence
that the shutter is open for 3 different durations. Whatever that implies.

On some shutters you can get intermediate speeds in some places, but
setting an accurate speed is so hard you may as well not bother.

Here's a Synchro-Compur from a Retina IIa:
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=6be0i8h
The shutter was set at 1/10 for the picture. Faster speeds involve
turning the setting ring anticlockwise, slower speeds are clockwise.

On the right is a cam that brings in an escapement for the slow
speeds. As shown this escapement is engaged. With the ring turned a
little further anticlockwise the arrowed lever will be pushed outward
and the low-speed escapement will be disengaged.

At the bottom is the mechanism that controls the time between the
opening and closing of the shutter blades. The further in the arrowed
pin can move, the longer the exposure. If the low-speed escapement is
engaged then the times are 1, 1/2, 1/5 and 1/10; if it's disengaged
then the times are 1/25, 1/50, 1/100 and 1/250. The curved ramp to the
right of the arrowed pin sets the slow speeds. As photographed, the
pin is held all the way down to give the fastest of the slow speeds.
If the setting ring were to be turned one step anticlockwise the pin
would be free to move inward into the indentation currently just above
it to the left, giving the next higher speed. Further movement of the
setting ring brings increasingly shorter travel for the pin as it is
held outward by the ramp over to the left.

For the very highest speed (1/500) the extra spring at the top is
compressed by the end of the slot it's in, giving a boost to the
opening and closing of the shutter blades.

What all this means is that over the range from 1 to 1/10 and from
1/25 to 1/250 you _can_ set intermediate speeds, as you're simply
selecting an intermediate point on the ramps shown to the right and
left of the speed selection pin. However, you cannot do this between
1/10 and 1/25 because it's at this point that the shutter is switching
over between engaging or disengaging the slow speed escapement. Nor
can you select an intermediate speed between 1/250 and 1/500, and
you're likely to wreck your shutter if you try.

Obviously, other shutters may vary.

--
Matthew Winn
[If replying by mail remove the "r" from "urk"]

Recently, Michael lakediver.houston.rr.com posted:

"Neil Gould" wrote:
My curiosity has been aroused, so I got the camera out and tried a
simple test. I set the shutter speed at 1/2, 1, and somewhere in
between the two. After about a half dozen tries on each setting, I
can say with confidence that the shutter is open for 3 different
durations. Whatever that implies.


While possible that was not the way the shutter was designed and the
implication could be that the shutter needs a cleaning and an
adjustment also that you will not have any way to know what speed the
shutter is running when you are on the edge of one of the steps.

I suspect you are correct about this. This camera probably needs a CLA.

Neil

Recently, Bob Salomon posted:

"Neil Gould" wrote:

Given that I double-checked this on the camera before writing the
reply, perhaps you have some other explanation for the fact that
there are no detents, and that the shutter speed varies with the
setting of the wheel?

Neil

Your camera needs a CLA by a competent repair man. Or women.
Rollei TLR's did not have continuously variable shutter speeds.

The camera probably does need a CLA by this time. That could explain the
shutter durations that I observed.

The only
cameras Rollei made with a continuously variable shutter was the
Rollei SL2000.3000 series. The closest to continuously variable 6x6
from Rollei was the Linear Motor shutters in the 6008 series and that
was adjustable in 1/3rd steps from 30 seconds to 1/1000 with PQ
lenses from Rollei and 1/500 with their other lenses.

I'm aware of how my 6008i PQ & PQS lenses work, but those are electronic
shutters.

Neil