black and white??

my question is: can you develop black and white pictures from color
NEGATIVES??? i know you can take a color picture and have it duplicated in
black and white, but i am talking about using the negatives?!?! don't i
need to buy special black and white film to develop from the negatives???

elairsey a écrit :
my question is: can you develop black and white pictures from color
NEGATIVES??? i know you can take a color picture and have it duplicated in
black and white, but i am talking about using the negatives?!?! don't i
need to buy special black and white film to develop from the negatives???

From a theorical point of view, you should use a panchromatic
(sensitive to the complete spectrum) paper, like the old Kodak Panalure,
but I doubt such papers are still available (maybe I'm wrong).
More practically, you can use multigrade paper with acceptable results.

Claudio Bonavolta
http://www.bonavolta.ch

elairsey wrote:

my question is: can you develop black and white pictures from color
NEGATIVES??? i know you can take a color picture and have it duplicated in
black and white, but i am talking about using the negatives?!?! don't i
need to buy special black and white film to develop from the negatives???



Assuming that what you are saying is that you have a color negative that
has been exposed and developed, how do you make a black and white print,
the following options are possible.

1. Obtain some Kodak Panalure (now discontinued) and print using
color filters as you would print a color negative. Develop in black and
white paper chemistry.

2 . Make an internegative. Get some Kodak B&W Duplicating Film (yeah,
now discontinued) and using color filtration, copy to the B&W negative.
Develop and print from the B&W negative.

3. Enlarge, using color filtration, onto color slide (E-6) sheet
film. Develop the E-6 sheet film and contact print over a B&W negative
of the same size. Print the B&W negative.

4. Print directly onto B&W paper. The problem I have encountered is
that this generally results in a muddy image. It may be that with
enough experimentation with filtration you can make it clean, but I
don't guarantee it.


Francis A. Miniter

elairsey wrote:
my question is: can you develop black and white pictures from color
NEGATIVES??? i know you can take a color picture and have it duplicated in
black and white, but i am talking about using the negatives?!?! don't i
need to buy special black and white film to develop from the negatives???
Do you want it printed on true B&W paper? If so then follow Francis'
suggestions. But if you just want it printed in B&W, take it to a lab
with a digital printer such as a frontier, and have them reprint it as a
B&W. The result will be a B&W image printed on colour paper - it won't
look identical to a B&W printed on B&W paper, but it will still look ok,
and will be the cheapest and fastest way of getting a quality B&W.

Francis A. Miniter wrote:
elairsey wrote:

my question is: can you develop black and white pictures from color
NEGATIVES??? i know you can take a color picture and have it
duplicated in black and white, but i am talking about using the
negatives?!?! don't i
need to buy special black and white film to develop from the negatives???



Assuming that what you are saying is that you have a color negative that
has been exposed and developed, how do you make a black and white print,
the following options are possible.

1. Obtain some Kodak Panalure (now discontinued) and print using
color filters as you would print a color negative. Develop in black and
white paper chemistry.

2 . Make an internegative. Get some Kodak B&W Duplicating Film (yeah,
now discontinued) and using color filtration, copy to the B&W negative.
Develop and print from the B&W negative.

3. Enlarge, using color filtration, onto color slide (E-6) sheet
film. Develop the E-6 sheet film and contact print over a B&W negative
of the same size. Print the B&W negative.
Sorry, this one won't work - by enlarging to color slide you will still
have a negative image, just with different filtration. When you contact
print this slide to B&W negative film, you will end up with a positive
image. When you then print this image you will have a negative print.
Using this method, you would either need some colour negative sheet film
that doesn't have the orange mask, or direct contact print the E6 onto
B&W paper. of course doing it with this 2nd method would be no different
to direct printing with suitable colour filtration.
4. Print directly onto B&W paper. The problem I have encountered is
that this generally results in a muddy image. It may be that with
enough experimentation with filtration you can make it clean, but I
don't guarantee it.

Francis A. Miniter

Two of my favorite black and white prints were from color negatives
simply printed in Dektol.

Dektol is a developer. Paper choice is much more important to this issue
than brand of Developer.

What I have done in the past? Panalure paper processed in Dektol, in a
pinch I have used a VC paper processed in Dektol using a grade 3.5 filter.
VC papers are somewhat orthochromatic, it's not as good as panchro papers
but Panalure is gone. Especially handy if you have a low contrast soft
focus color negative and needed more contrast. I used to print a lot of
color negatives, worked for a studio that shot 600 seniors a year and back
then (12-15 years ago) most schools wanted black and white wallets for the
year book. My best year was the year that Kodak had Panalure II RC
available in THREE contrast grades.

Graded papers don't work as well, they are sensitive to a very limited
spectrum of light and don't respond well to the orange mask of a color
negative. Exposure times are pretty long, spectral response to the colors
in the image render many graytones lighter or darker than expected.

Recently available were panchromatic black and white papers processed in
RA-4. Mini-labs used them. May still be available, I haven't the need so
haven't kept current on the technology. And with many long time
manufacturers "bailing" it's anyone's guess what will be available "next
week".

--
darkroommike


"DanB" wrote in message
oups.com...
Two of my favorite black and white prints were from color negatives
simply printed in Dektol.

On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 10:25:08 -0500, "Mike King"
wrote:

Graded papers don't work as well, they are sensitive to a very limited
spectrum of light and don't respond well to the orange mask of a color
negative

And the inverted colors of the C41 negative.

==
John S. Douglas
Photographer & Webmaster
www.legacy-photo,com
www.xs750.net

Graham Fountain wrote:

Do you want it printed on true B&W paper? If so then follow Francis'
suggestions. But if you just want it printed in B&W, take it to a lab
with a digital printer such as a frontier, and have them reprint it as a
B&W. The result will be a B&W image printed on colour paper - it won't
look identical to a B&W printed on B&W paper, but it will still look ok,
and will be the cheapest and fastest way of getting a quality B&W.

Am I incorrect to believe that a color neg. can be scanned into
Photoshop & printed out on one of Epson's many photo quality printers?
With the proper manipulations in PS & calibration & the use of suitable
inks & paper to, isn't it possible to achieve a quality arguably close
to B&W film & paper? Wouldn't this also give the photog. the option to
use contrast/ color filtration after the exposure, such as if it had
been exposed w/ say, a yellow filter?

I really don't want to start a flame war here over silver vs. digital.
I'm bringing this up because this is the path that I plan to take in
the future. I.E. Neg color scanned into PS & printed out onto either
b&w or color. I would consider my thought to be correct if a few
respected arts photogs. are doing this. In any case, I suspect it's
going to soon to become one of the few paths available short of full
digital.

Regards, John

You are correct about #3. The color negative has to first be contacted printed
or enlarged to a color negative before going on to the chrome step.


Francis A. Miniter


Graham Fountain wrote:

Francis A. Miniter wrote:

elairsey wrote:

my question is: can you develop black and white pictures from color
NEGATIVES??? i know you can take a color picture and have it
duplicated in black and white, but i am talking about using the
negatives?!?! don't i
need to buy special black and white film to develop from the
negatives???



Assuming that what you are saying is that you have a color negative
that has been exposed and developed, how do you make a black and white
print, the following options are possible.

1. Obtain some Kodak Panalure (now discontinued) and print using
color filters as you would print a color negative. Develop in black
and white paper chemistry.

2 . Make an internegative. Get some Kodak B&W Duplicating Film
(yeah, now discontinued) and using color filtration, copy to the B&W
negative. Develop and print from the B&W negative.

3. Enlarge, using color filtration, onto color slide (E-6) sheet
film. Develop the E-6 sheet film and contact print over a B&W
negative of the same size. Print the B&W negative.

Sorry, this one won't work - by enlarging to color slide you will still
have a negative image, just with different filtration. When you contact
print this slide to B&W negative film, you will end up with a positive
image. When you then print this image you will have a negative print.
Using this method, you would either need some colour negative sheet film
that doesn't have the orange mask, or direct contact print the E6 onto
B&W paper. of course doing it with this 2nd method would be no different
to direct printing with suitable colour filtration.

4. Print directly onto B&W paper. The problem I have encountered
is that this generally results in a muddy image. It may be that with
enough experimentation with filtration you can make it clean, but I
don't guarantee it.

Francis A. Miniter