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#11
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Nikon did it again, increasing the price of replacement lens by $1000
Savageduck wrote:
On 2013-03-05 14:35:32 -0800, Rob said: On 6/03/2013 1:08 AM, Floyd L. Davidson wrote: Rob wrote: The 70-300 is quarter the price. Half the weight 745gms/1570 gms If that lens is satisfactory, then you have no need at all for the new 80-400mm lens. But the 70-300mm is not equal to the older 80-400mm AF-D lens, and is no where near the same as the new lens. I do have the 70-300 lens and find it light to carry and stay mobile, running up and down a beach. My old 80-400mm (bought in 2004 for $1400) has become a dust collector and hasn't been a regular occupant of my bag since 2009. The 70-300mm VR is a surprisingly good value and performer, and the only areas in which the 70-300mm VR is not equal to the old 80-400mm is in the 80-400mm's unbelievably poor low light performance, slow focus and the only performance benefit, the extra reach. I certainly couldn't have made this capture with the 80-400mm. http://db.tt/6SuM0WTp Relatively what you say is true. The 80-400mm has the advantage of a focal length range that extends to 400mm vs 300mm and being about equal to the 70-300mm at 300mm. For many purposes that has great significance, and of course for many others it has none. The 80-400mm is not exactly great in any way at 400mm focal length, but it is nearly as good in the center of the frame at 400mm as the 70-300mm is at 300mm. The 80-400mm uses the built in focus motor, so the top of the line models (such as the D2X, D3, and D4) would see significantly less difference between the 80-400mm and the 70-300mm compared to what would be experienced by other bodies in terms of AF, particularly in low light. That might color the experience of some users compared to the experience of others. Regardless of all of that, the new 80-400mm f/4.5-5.6G lens appears to be more significantly better than the 70-300mm in every way than that lens is over the older 80-400mm in any way. The biggest thing to note in the MTF curves for the new lens is the match between the sagittal curves and the meridional curves. To compare lenses, the lower value of the two curves is probably the most significant. For example the 70-300mm at 15mm from the image center has an S30 value of 0.74 and an M30 value of 0.55, while the older 80-400mm has S30 at 0.80 and M30 at 0.47. The S30 value is higher for the 80-400mm, but *what counts* is that it's M30 is lower by 0.07, which is significant but not huge. On the other hand the new 80-400mm G lens has S30 at 0.73 and M30 at 0.74. Not only is that a very large jump above the 0.55 of the 70-300mm, the fact that the S and M values are so close indicates virtually no astigmatism with the 80-400mm G. In fact the 80-400mm G lens, at 20mm from the center (basically this is in the very diagonal corners of a full frame image) has S30 at 0.65 and M30 at 0.67, still showing no astigmatism and being sharper than the 70-300 is even at 10mm from the center (M30 is 0.55). *To put it mildly, the new 80-400mm G is a much sharper* *lens than the 70-300mm G.* It doesn't mean everyone will value that sharpness higher than the 70-300mm when also accounting for weight and cost. But there is little doubt that those who seriously shoot sports and wildlife are going to snap up this lens immediately. -- Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/ Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) |
#12
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Nikon did it again, increasing the price of replacement lensby $1000
On 3/7/2013 7:13 AM, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
On the other hand the new 80-400mm G lens has S30 at 0.73 and M30 at 0.74. Not only is that a very large jump above the 0.55 of the 70-300mm, the fact that the S and M values are so close indicates virtually no astigmatism with the 80-400mm G. In fact the 80-400mm G lens, at 20mm from the center (basically this is in the very diagonal corners of a full frame image) has S30 at 0.65 and M30 at 0.67, still showing no astigmatism and being sharper than the 70-300 is even at 10mm from the center (M30 is 0.55). Have the same S and M values does NOT imply that there is no astigmatism! That's because these are white light MTFs. Therefore they include lateral chromatic aberration. A lens could have lateral chromatic plus astigmatism adding up the the same blur in S and M. Of course, having both small is better. Nevertheless, white light MTF has the problem that if part is lateral chromatic, and it is small, one can digitally fix it. What one needs is both white light MTF and MTF in R, G, and B. Doug McDonald |
#13
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Nikon did it again, increasing the price of replacement lensby $1000
On 3/5/2013 9:19 PM, Rob wrote:
On 6/03/2013 12:32 PM, PeterN wrote: I agree with much of what you say, but: my 80-499 focuses a lot faster on my D800 than on the D300, but only if I use center focus. My Nikon TC extenders will not fit because of the protrusion of the rear element. It does fit on the Kenko 1.4, but the image is horribly soft. I have no reservations about trying the new 80-400. but only if it will work with a 1.4 extender, as I would like a 500mm. On those very rare occasions I can use my 500mm f5.6 Mamiya MF lens - used manually, attached with a Zork converter. ( Nobody wanted to give me any money for the lens so I kept it) I have an old 500 mirror that I try every so often. I have rarely been happy with the results. For most birds, you cannot have too much lens. Similarly, you can't have too much money. -- PeterN |
#14
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Nikon did it again, increasing the price of replacement lensby $1000
On 3/5/2013 9:22 PM, Rob wrote:
On 6/03/2013 12:32 PM, PeterN wrote: my 80-499 focuses a lot faster on my D800 than on the D300, Why? although I haven't tried is it a better motor? Not sure. I thnk is has to do with the sensor. I could manually focus, my 80-200 2.8, faster. -- PeterN |
#15
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Nikon did it again, increasing the price of replacement lensby $1000
On 9/03/2013 1:52 PM, PeterN wrote:
On 3/5/2013 9:19 PM, Rob wrote: On 6/03/2013 12:32 PM, PeterN wrote: I agree with much of what you say, but: my 80-499 focuses a lot faster on my D800 than on the D300, but only if I use center focus. My Nikon TC extenders will not fit because of the protrusion of the rear element. It does fit on the Kenko 1.4, but the image is horribly soft. I have no reservations about trying the new 80-400. but only if it will work with a 1.4 extender, as I would like a 500mm. On those very rare occasions I can use my 500mm f5.6 Mamiya MF lens - used manually, attached with a Zork converter. ( Nobody wanted to give me any money for the lens so I kept it) I have an old 500 mirror that I try every so often. I have rarely been happy with the results. For most birds, you cannot have too much lens. Similarly, you can't have too much money. Tried mirror lenses, they lack DOF and a bit soft maybe the brand (sigma?) My glass I can control DOF. |
#16
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Nikon did it again, increasing the price of replacement lens by $1000
PeterN wrote:
On 3/5/2013 9:22 PM, Rob wrote: On 6/03/2013 12:32 PM, PeterN wrote: my 80-499 focuses a lot faster on my D800 than on the D300, Why? although I haven't tried is it a better motor? Not sure. I thnk is has to do with the sensor. The bigger motor, allowed by a better battery. -- Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/ Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) |
#17
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Nikon did it again, increasing the price of replacement lensby $1000
On 9/03/2013 7:07 p.m., Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
PeterN wrote: On 3/5/2013 9:22 PM, Rob wrote: On 6/03/2013 12:32 PM, PeterN wrote: my 80-499 focuses a lot faster on my D800 than on the D300, Why? although I haven't tried is it a better motor? Not sure. I thnk is has to do with the sensor. The bigger motor, allowed by a better battery. The D800 has the same battery as the D7000. I tested D70/90/300/700 using a screw-driven macro lens from closest to infinity, and the motor drive speed was identical (ie - not just "close"), despite it being "common knowledge" that the more "pro" bodies had stronger AF motors. Sure, the D800 might have a faster AF drive motor, but TBH I doubt it, as until now Nikon seem to reserve this for pro models with integrated grip. |
#18
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Nikon did it again, increasing the price of replacement lensby $1000
On 9/03/2013 7:49 PM, Me wrote:
On 9/03/2013 7:07 p.m., Floyd L. Davidson wrote: PeterN wrote: On 3/5/2013 9:22 PM, Rob wrote: On 6/03/2013 12:32 PM, PeterN wrote: my 80-499 focuses a lot faster on my D800 than on the D300, Why? although I haven't tried is it a better motor? Not sure. I thnk is has to do with the sensor. The bigger motor, allowed by a better battery. The D800 has the same battery as the D7000. I tested D70/90/300/700 using a screw-driven macro lens from closest to infinity, and the motor drive speed was identical (ie - not just "close"), despite it being "common knowledge" that the more "pro" bodies had stronger AF motors. Sure, the D800 might have a faster AF drive motor, but TBH I doubt it, as until now Nikon seem to reserve this for pro models with integrated grip. batteries should have no effect. The only thing I notice is the relationship between CCD and CMOS sensors - CMOS uses far less power. The 800 has a bigger body and may fit a larger more powerful motor. The D800 is getting very pro'ish Ill have to check with an old lens to make that comparison with between D90 D200 D800. the lens that I started to use regularly now is my old 18-35 but didn't take any notice of speed as it was bought back when I was using a D100 for a wide angle lens. |
#19
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Nikon did it again, increasing the price of replacement lensby $1000
On 3/8/2013 11:12 PM, Rob wrote:
On 9/03/2013 1:52 PM, PeterN wrote: On 3/5/2013 9:19 PM, Rob wrote: On 6/03/2013 12:32 PM, PeterN wrote: I agree with much of what you say, but: my 80-499 focuses a lot faster on my D800 than on the D300, but only if I use center focus. My Nikon TC extenders will not fit because of the protrusion of the rear element. It does fit on the Kenko 1.4, but the image is horribly soft. I have no reservations about trying the new 80-400. but only if it will work with a 1.4 extender, as I would like a 500mm. On those very rare occasions I can use my 500mm f5.6 Mamiya MF lens - used manually, attached with a Zork converter. ( Nobody wanted to give me any money for the lens so I kept it) I have an old 500 mirror that I try every so often. I have rarely been happy with the results. For most birds, you cannot have too much lens. Similarly, you can't have too much money. Tried mirror lenses, they lack DOF and a bit soft maybe the brand (sigma?) My glass I can control DOF. Nikon circa 1979. I bought it used for about $100. Every o often I try it, but have rarely been happy with the results. -- PeterN |
#20
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Nikon did it again, increasing the price of replacement lens by $1000
Rob wrote:
On 9/03/2013 7:49 PM, Me wrote: On 9/03/2013 7:07 p.m., Floyd L. Davidson wrote: PeterN wrote: On 3/5/2013 9:22 PM, Rob wrote: On 6/03/2013 12:32 PM, PeterN wrote: my 80-499 focuses a lot faster on my D800 than on the D300, Why? although I haven't tried is it a better motor? Not sure. I thnk is has to do with the sensor. The bigger motor, allowed by a better battery. The D800 has the same battery as the D7000. I tested D70/90/300/700 using a screw-driven macro lens from closest to infinity, and the motor drive speed was identical (ie - not just "close"), despite it being "common knowledge" that the more "pro" bodies had stronger AF motors. Sure, the D800 might have a faster AF drive motor, but TBH I doubt it, as until now Nikon seem to reserve this for pro models with integrated grip. batteries should have no effect. The D800 can be fitted with a MB-D12 battery grip, which allows use of AA cells or the same EN-EL18 battery used by the D4. Because of that, the D800 can have a more powerful built in focus motor, and it certainly can detect which battery is in use. It may or may not have firmware that controls use of full power to the AF motor depending on the actual battery being used. I use a D800 powered by EN-EL18 batteries, and while I haven't made any attempt to measure auto focus timing with AF-D lenses I do use three different AF-D lenses with both a D800 and a D4 and have not noticed any difference. -- Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/ Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) |
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