Advice sought on scanning b/w negatives

I have a black and white darkroom. I use 4x5, 6x12, 35mm negatives and
have two enlargers.
I would like to scan the negatives and invert the image for a contact
sheet proof before printing the negatives. This is the only use that I
have for the scanner and software.
I have a PC and a printer, what would you recommend for a scanner and
software to do this?
If there are a more appropriate groups to post this to, that would also
be appreciated.
Thanks, Ken Kaiser

On 25 Feb 2006 14:21:05 -0800, "
wrote:

I have a black and white darkroom. I use 4x5, 6x12, 35mm negatives and
have two enlargers.
I would like to scan the negatives and invert the image for a contact
sheet proof before printing the negatives. This is the only use that I
have for the scanner and software.
I have a PC and a printer, what would you recommend for a scanner and
software to do this?
If there are a more appropriate groups to post this to, that would also
be appreciated.
Thanks, Ken Kaiser


Epson 4990 is probably your best bet right now,
though it's overkill if all you want is contact
sheets.

If the $400 is too high, look for one of the
older Epson photo/flatbeds on eBay. Eg., even
the old Epson 1640 will scan 4x5.

One advantage of the 4990 is that the entire
surface of the scan bed is available for
transparencies -- that's not true for the
older Epson photo/flatbeds or for the less
expensive current models (3490, 4490.)

Any image editor will do. Try Photoshop
Elements or Photoshop LE, for example.


rafe b
www.terrapinphoto.com

Ken,
I just spent about a month shopping for a scanner for some old family
negatives. I am getting an HP 4890 flat bed scanner. It comes with
frames for 16 slides and negative strips. It is only about $200. Good
luck with your project.
Clint Herndon

rafe b wrote:

wrote:

I have a black and white darkroom. I use 4x5, 6x12, 35mm negatives
I would like to scan the negatives and invert the image for a contact
sheet proof before printing the negatives.


Epson 4990 is probably your best bet right now,
though it's overkill if all you want is contact sheets.


I think the 4990 is overkill in the mind of the OP
and myself. I've a scanner to buy as well. A B&W negative
and print scanning unit is needed. What of those integrated
units; scanner-copier-printer? Any of those that do a good
job of all three? The prices on those units seems
ridiculously low. Dan

spake thus:

rafe b wrote:

wrote:

I have a black and white darkroom. I use 4x5, 6x12, 35mm
negatives I would like to scan the negatives and invert the image
for a contact sheet proof before printing the negatives.

Epson 4990 is probably your best bet right now, though it's
overkill if all you want is contact sheets.

I think the 4990 is overkill in the mind of the OP
and myself. I've a scanner to buy as well. A B&W negative
and print scanning unit is needed. What of those integrated
units; scanner-copier-printer? Any of those that do a good
job of all three? The prices on those units seems
ridiculously low. Dan

I'll give you 3 guesses why they're so cheap, and the first 2 don't count.

I think the other respondent's suggestion of using a cheap HP scanner
equipped to scan film would be just the thing. (Probably others out
there in the same price range, no?)


--
To the arrogant putzes at NBC:

Do we call the country Italia? Is its capital Roma?
Were previous Olympics held in Moskva, Muenchen or Athine?
Do we call it the "Shroud of Torino"?

No!

So learn to speak English already and call it Turin.

- from someone's blog

I had similar intentions and bought a Canon 9950F when they first came
out. After I learned to run the thing, I was getting very decent B&W
prints when I needed something quick, especially from 120 and 4X5. I'm
now quite pleased that I made the purchase as it has become usable for
more than I first had guessed. I'm still 95% wet darkroom but these
scans and a simple HP Photosmart 8450 (3 black/gray colors) can
deliver surprising results with a bit of tweaking.... It might be a
reflection of my darkroom skills, but I've actually gotten some
hard-to-print negatives to deliver better via the scans and deliver
good tonality on the printer that I wasn't quite getting in the
darkroom... It takes a bit of courage to admit that publicly!

On 25 Feb 2006 14:21:05 -0800, "
wrote:

I have a black and white darkroom. I use 4x5, 6x12, 35mm negatives and
have two enlargers.
I would like to scan the negatives and invert the image for a contact
sheet proof before printing the negatives. This is the only use that I
have for the scanner and software.
I have a PC and a printer, what would you recommend for a scanner and
software to do this?

Craig Schroeder
craig nospam craigschroeder com

On 26 Feb 2006 14:31:59 -0800, wrote:


I think the 4990 is overkill in the mind of the OP
and myself. I've a scanner to buy as well. A B&W negative
and print scanning unit is needed. What of those integrated
units; scanner-copier-printer? Any of those that do a good
job of all three? The prices on those units seems
ridiculously low. Dan


The problem is that most scanners are built to
scan reflective targets. The OP is trying to
scan transmissive targets, aka transparencies.

The cheap film-scanning HPs generally only
handle 35mm filmstrips and slides. The OP
needs a transparency scanner for large media.

MFPs won't buy you anything. They're just a
cheap flatbed scanner in the same box as a
cheap inkjet printer. Very handy as occasional
copiers (even standalone) but not useful for
the OP's purposes.

That's the problem in a nutshell.


rafe b
www.terrapinphoto.com

On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 18:45:40 -0600, Craig Schroeder
wrote:


It might be a
reflection of my darkroom skills, but I've actually gotten some
hard-to-print negatives to deliver better via the scans and deliver
good tonality on the printer that I wasn't quite getting in the
darkroom... It takes a bit of courage to admit that publicly!


I won't hold it against you, Craig. But others might.

grin


rafe b
www.terrapinphoto.com

In article ,
Craig Schroeder writes:

It might be a
reflection of my darkroom skills, but I've actually gotten some
hard-to-print negatives to deliver better via the scans and deliver
good tonality on the printer that I wasn't quite getting in the
darkroom... It takes a bit of courage to admit that publicly!

What I've found is that a scanner (or my Minolta DiMAGE Scan Elite 5400 as
driven by VueScan, anyhow) is very good at extracting the full scale of
densities from a negative, compared to printing. This is most commonly
noticeable in scenes with cloudy skies; a scan produces noticeable, and
even dramatic, detail in the clouds along with a good range of tones
outside of the sky. A print of the same negative produces little or no
detail in the clouds and/or lost detail in the shadows. The only way I've
found to recover detail in both areas in the darkroom is to burn the sky
in. (I've less than a year's experience in the wet darkroom, though;
perhaps there's a technique I don't know about that'd do the job.)

That said, scans of B&W negatives just don't cut it when it comes to
recording subtle tonal changes, particularly in dark areas (of the final
images; light areas of the negative); they tend to break up into harsh
pixel patterns, and printing on an injet printer just makes it worse.
Thus, with a little burning, I find it's usually possible to get superior
results in a conventional darkroom. I've a couple of negatives I have yet
to print satisfactorily in the darkroom but for which I have good scans,
though. Still, I do expect to eventually learn enough to get them done.

--
Rod Smith,
http://www.rodsbooks.com
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking

On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 01:29:57 -0000, (Rod
Smith) wrote:


That said, scans of B&W negatives just don't cut it when it comes to
recording subtle tonal changes, particularly in dark areas (of the final
images; light areas of the negative); they tend to break up into harsh
pixel patterns, and printing on an injet printer just makes it worse.
Thus, with a little burning, I find it's usually possible to get superior
results in a conventional darkroom. I've a couple of negatives I have yet
to print satisfactorily in the darkroom but for which I have good scans,
though. Still, I do expect to eventually learn enough to get them done.


It takes some practice and experimentation, is all.

Lots of scanner drivers (including NikonScan)
misbehave badly on BW negatives.

So one simple workaround is to scan them as
positives. Try RGB (positive) and grayscale
(positive) and see which works best. Scan in
16-bit mode. Then invert in Photoshop and
apply the standard manipulations for tonal
range (black point, white point, etc.)

Here's a crappy old Tri-X shot scanned that
way on the LS-8000. Scanned as 16-bit positive,
grayscale, and inverted in Photoshop.

Small overview of full frame:
http://www.terrapinphoto.com/bw/bw_overview.jpg

Full-res, 2000x2000 pixel (0.5" x 0.5") detail:
http://www.terrapinphoto.com/bw/bw_detail.jpg


Printing BW on inkjets is another whole issue.
Again, not trivial but it can be done. The
Epson 2400 has three "shades" of black and does
an excellent job of it.

rafe b
www.terrapinphoto.com