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Nikon mirrorless FF's launch. Sony FF sales about to drop. A lot.



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 24th 18, 06:02 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Savageduck[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15,569
Default Nikon mirrorless FF's launch. Sony FF sales about to drop. A lot.

On Aug 23, 2018, RichA wrote
(in ):

All the potential ship-jumpers will no longer have to. Plus, all those Nikon
lenses and thousands of others once aftermarket adapters hit.


I think I will skip either one of these. Nikon missed the MILC target with
these two cameras, but it is a start, so perhaps in 4-5 years they will have
a good MILC which can replace the D850, 0r even the D500, but not yet. I
don’t think that Nikon has quite got the concept or mirrorless. Nikon fans
will probably state otherwise, but most of those do not, or have not used
MILCs. Other than those Nikon, and some other brand shooters with chronic GAS
I don’t believe that there will be too many Sony, or other ship jumpers.

Now we wait to see what Canon will introduce to the World of FF MILC.
Personally as a hobbyist/enthusiast photographer I will be sticking with
APS-C rather than going to the expense of a move to FF.

--

Regards,
Savageduck

  #2  
Old August 24th 18, 08:21 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Sandman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,429
Default Nikon mirrorless FF's launch. Sony FF sales about to drop. A lot.

In article .com,
Savageduck wrote:

RichA:
All the potential ship-jumpers will no longer have to. Plus, all
those Nikon lenses and thousands of others once aftermarket
adapters hit.


I think I will skip either one of these. Nikon missed the MILC
target with these two cameras, but it is a start, so perhaps in 4-5
years they will have a good MILC which can replace the D850


In what way did they miss the mark, though? Same resolution, more focusing
points, smaller camera, higher frame rate.

The unknowns, at least to me, is focusing speed. I haven't watched any
reviews yet.

As far as I can determine, the D850 has it beat on shots per battery charge.

Whether it's a worthy competitor to the A7R III is another story.

--
Sandman
  #3  
Old August 24th 18, 08:47 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Savageduck[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15,569
Default Nikon mirrorless FF's launch. Sony FF sales about to drop. A lot.

On Aug 24, 2018, Sandman wrote
(in ):

In iganews.com,
Savageduck wrote:

RichA:
All the potential ship-jumpers will no longer have to. Plus, all
those Nikon lenses and thousands of others once aftermarket
adapters hit.


I think I will skip either one of these. Nikon missed the MILC
target with these two cameras, but it is a start, so perhaps in 4-5
years they will have a good MILC which can replace the D850


In what way did they miss the mark, though?


Start with the single memory slot.

Same resolution, more focusing points, smaller camera, higher frame rate.


....er, not too much smaller, especially with the fat “S" glass designed for
the Zs.
In a smaller world the M43, and APS-C MILCs have nothing to fear from the FF
MILCs.

The unknowns, at least to me, is focusing speed. I haven't watched any reviews yet.

From what I have read the AF does not match up to the D850, D5, or D500, and
Nikon isn’t going to erode sales of those cameras with either the Z6, or
Z7. They are going to try to get a piece of the Sony FF pie, and they are
going to pick up sales fron Nikon FF DSLR owners who have been reluctant to
move into the MILC world.

As far as I can determine, the D850 has it beat on shots per battery charge.


....and that is another issue. If Nikon is trying to produce a pro FF MILC it
needs to compete with the Nikon pro DSLRs with all specs, including battery
life. For now both the Z6 & Z7 are high priced prosumer MILCs with a limited
native lens availability (admitedly there is the promise of the “S” lens
roadmap). Using F mount lenses with the adaptor turns what should be a
reasonably compact system into an unwieldly kludge. even with the adaptor
none of their older screw focus lenses will work. For folks looking for a FF
MILC system they should consider the Sony offerings. For MF they should look
to the Fujifilm GFX-50S, and the soon to be released GFX-100S.

Whether it's a worthy competitor to the A7R III is another story.


For now it seems the Sony has the edge. However, there are going to be a
whole bunch of Nikon FF shooters with legacy F mount glass who are going to
be tempted.

--

Regards,
Savageduck

  #4  
Old August 24th 18, 08:59 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Savageduck[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15,569
Default Nikon mirrorless FF's launch. Sony FF sales about to drop. A lot.

On Aug 24, 2018, Savageduck wrote
(in iganews.com):

On Aug 24, 2018, Sandman wrote
(in ):

In iganews.com,
Savageduck wrote:

RichA:
All the potential ship-jumpers will no longer have to. Plus, all
those Nikon lenses and thousands of others once aftermarket
adapters hit.

I think I will skip either one of these. Nikon missed the MILC
target with these two cameras, but it is a start, so perhaps in 4-5
years they will have a good MILC which can replace the D850


In what way did they miss the mark, though?


Start with the single memory slot.

Same resolution, more focusing points, smaller camera, higher frame rate.


...er, not too much smaller, especially with the fat “S" glass designed for
the Zs.
In a smaller world the M43, and APS-C MILCs have nothing to fear from the FF
MILCs.

The unknowns, at least to me, is focusing speed. I haven't watched any
reviews yet.

From what I have read the AF does not match up to the D850, D5, or D500, and
Nikon isn’t going to erode sales of those cameras with either the Z6, or
Z7. They are going to try to get a piece of the Sony FF pie, and they are
going to pick up sales fron Nikon FF DSLR owners who have been reluctant to
move into the MILC world.

As far as I can determine, the D850 has it beat on shots per battery charge.


...and that is another issue. If Nikon is trying to produce a pro FF MILC it
needs to compete with the Nikon pro DSLRs with all specs, including battery
life. For now both the Z6 & Z7 are high priced prosumer MILCs with a limited
native lens availability (admitedly there is the promise of the “S” lens
roadmap). Using F mount lenses with the adaptor turns what should be a
reasonably compact system into an unwieldly kludge. even with the adaptor
none of their older screw focus lenses will work. For folks looking for a FF
MILC system they should consider the Sony offerings. For MF they should look
to the Fujifilm GFX-50S, and the soon to be released GFX-100S.

Whether it's a worthy competitor to the A7R III is another story.


For now it seems the Sony has the edge. However, there are going to be a
whole bunch of Nikon FF shooters with legacy F mount glass who are going to
be tempted.


There is a major issue that Nikon hasn’t addressed. They have a massive
APS-C DSLR user base, all of whom could be tempted by a Nikon APS-C MILC.
These folks have been effectively kicked to the curb, and abandoned by Nikon.
These are shooters who are not tempted by any sort of FF camera, and are
likely to jump ship to Olympus, Panasonic, or Fujifilm, perhaps even Sony.

We wait to see what Canon delivers.

--

Regards,
Savageduck

  #5  
Old August 24th 18, 11:34 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
RJH
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 176
Default Nikon mirrorless FF's launch. Sony FF sales about to drop. A lot.

On 24/08/2018 06:02, Savageduck wrote:
On Aug 23, 2018, RichA wrote
(in ):

All the potential ship-jumpers will no longer have to. Plus, all those Nikon
lenses and thousands of others once aftermarket adapters hit.


I think I will skip either one of these. Nikon missed the MILC target with
these two cameras, but it is a start, so perhaps in 4-5 years they will have
a good MILC which can replace the D850, 0r even the D500, but not yet. I
don’t think that Nikon has quite got the concept or mirrorless.


snip

In my hardly informed opinion, the reason for being of mirrorless seems
to be many of the the advantages of DSLR without the size, weight and
cost. About right?


--
Cheers, Rob
  #6  
Old August 24th 18, 01:46 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
David Taylor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,068
Default Nikon mirrorless FF's launch. Sony FF sales about to drop. A lot.

On 24/08/2018 11:34, RJH wrote:
[]
In my hardly informed opinion, the reason for being of mirrorless seems
to be many of the the advantages of DSLR without the size, weight and
cost. About right?


Yes, it should be, but once you get into full-frame, the lenses are
typically /not/ that much smaller (even worse if you use older lenses
which then need an adapter). Weight, yes, but nothing like as much
saving as APS-C or Micro Four Thirds. As to cost, I don't get that
impression from the Nikon offerings!

--
Cheers,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
  #7  
Old August 24th 18, 02:34 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Savageduck[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15,569
Default Nikon mirrorless FF's launch. Sony FF sales about to drop. A lot.

On Aug 24, 2018, David Taylor wrote
(in article ):

On 24/08/2018 11:34, RJH wrote:
[]
In my hardly informed opinion, the reason for being of mirrorless seems
to be many of the the advantages of DSLR without the size, weight and
cost. About right?


Yes, it should be, but once you get into full-frame, the lenses are
typically /not/ that much smaller (even worse if you use older lenses
which then need an adapter). Weight, yes, but nothing like as much
saving as APS-C or Micro Four Thirds. As to cost, I don't get that
impression from the Nikon offerings!


Neither one of these Nikon Z cameras is going to be considered to be small,
and pocketable. They will only be comparitably lighter than the D850, D5, or
D500. The massive mount size means that these will never be able to compete
with Sony, Panasonic, Olympus, Fujifilm, or Canon M (who knows about the
Canon FF MILC?) in the lightweight, low bulk arena. I doubt that we will ever
see an S “pancake” lens.

If Nikon decides to release an APS-C MILC using this design concept they will
always be restricted by the mount size, unless they come up with yet another
new mount and lens family. Regardless, Niikon APS-C DSLR shooters who own and
use 85% of the Nikon sales are the ones who will be herded toward the more
costly FF MILC offering. I can see that many of those Nikon APS-C shooters
are going to jump ship leaving the Z camera sales to FF DSLR users, and
compulsive early adopters with GAS. The other issue is the Nikon APS-C users
shooting with DX lenses are out of luck with the “S-F” mount adaptor, so
they are going to be looking at the expense of new glass if they care to wet
their toes.

I can’t see these cameras as eroding the Sony share of the FF MILC market,
as the bulk of the buyers are going to be Nikon DSLR users, who have been
waiting for these rather than buying any other manufacturer’s MILC.

--

Regards,
Savageduck

  #8  
Old August 24th 18, 02:36 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Alfred Molon[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,186
Default Nikon mirrorless FF's launch. Sony FF sales about to drop. A lot.

In article .com,
Savageduck says...
There is a major issue that Nikon hasn?t addressed. They have a massive
APS-C DSLR user base, all of whom could be tempted by a Nikon APS-C MILC.
These folks have been effectively kicked to the curb, and abandoned by Nikon.
These are shooters who are not tempted by any sort of FF camera, and are
likely to jump ship to Olympus, Panasonic, or Fujifilm, perhaps even Sony.


Perhaps Nikon don't have the resources to launch or be successful with
two different mirrorless systems (one APS-C, one FF).
--
Alfred Molon

Olympus E-series DSLRs and micro 4/3 forum at
https://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
https://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
  #9  
Old August 24th 18, 02:40 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Alfred Molon[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,186
Default Nikon mirrorless FF's launch. Sony FF sales about to drop. A lot.

In article , RJH says...
In my hardly informed opinion, the reason for being of mirrorless seems
to be many of the the advantages of DSLR without the size, weight and
cost. About right?


In my opinion the reasons to be in mirrorless a

- the bodies are a bit smaller (than the DSLR ones)
- better AF for non-static scenes (the sensor "sees" what is going on
all the time and should be able to better track moving subjects)
- the shorter distance between the lens and the sensor should (I'm not a
lens expert) allow more degrees of freedom when designing lenses
- besides, swinging mirrors are a thing of the past. Doesn't make sense
to keep them in the digital age.

--
Alfred Molon

Olympus E-series DSLRs and micro 4/3 forum at
https://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
https://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
  #10  
Old August 24th 18, 07:25 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_7_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,056
Default Nikon mirrorless FF's launch. Sony FF sales about to drop. A lot.

On 8/24/2018 3:47 AM, Savageduck wrote:
On Aug 24, 2018, Sandman wrote
(in ):

In iganews.com,
Savageduck wrote:

RichA:
All the potential ship-jumpers will no longer have to. Plus, all
those Nikon lenses and thousands of others once aftermarket
adapters hit.

I think I will skip either one of these. Nikon missed the MILC
target with these two cameras, but it is a start, so perhaps in 4-5
years they will have a good MILC which can replace the D850


In what way did they miss the mark, though?


Start with the single memory slot.

Same resolution, more focusing points, smaller camera, higher frame rate.


...er, not too much smaller, especially with the fat “S" glass designed for
the Zs.
In a smaller world the M43, and APS-C MILCs have nothing to fear from the FF
MILCs.

The unknowns, at least to me, is focusing speed. I haven't watched any reviews yet.

From what I have read the AF does not match up to the D850, D5, or D500, and
Nikon isn’t going to erode sales of those cameras with either the Z6, or
Z7. They are going to try to get a piece of the Sony FF pie, and they are
going to pick up sales fron Nikon FF DSLR owners who have been reluctant to
move into the MILC world.

As far as I can determine, the D850 has it beat on shots per battery charge.


...and that is another issue. If Nikon is trying to produce a pro FF MILC it
needs to compete with the Nikon pro DSLRs with all specs, including battery
life. For now both the Z6 & Z7 are high priced prosumer MILCs with a limited
native lens availability (admitedly there is the promise of the “S” lens
roadmap). Using F mount lenses with the adaptor turns what should be a
reasonably compact system into an unwieldly kludge. even with the adaptor
none of their older screw focus lenses will work. For folks looking for a FF
MILC system they should consider the Sony offerings. For MF they should look
to the Fujifilm GFX-50S, and the soon to be released GFX-100S.

Whether it's a worthy competitor to the A7R III is another story.


For now it seems the Sony has the edge. However, there are going to be a
whole bunch of Nikon FF shooters with legacy F mount glass who are going to
be tempted.


Yup. I had been thinking of trading in my 800 for the 850. I have a
personal preference for FF. It gives the the type of WA shots I like,
and allows me to do image mining. I also like the concept of three axis
stabilization. So far the biggest drawback is the low number of shots
per battery.
I want to play with one for about a day before i decide.
--
PeterN
 




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