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#21
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DSLR sales. Only two ways they can go
On 7/27/2015 7:51 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN wrote: I see. Sorry. I missed the connection between "most systems," and your statement to the effect that one cannot hear music without microphones and speakers. i never mentioned microphones. you *really* ought to quit before you dig yourself an even deeper hole. Assuming your statement is correct, you are still wrong. My statement above has been changed to reflect that. I know to ask you to stop being an asshole is an exercise in futility. Since my point is made, there is no further need to continue. -- PeterN |
#22
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DSLR sales. Only two ways they can go
On 7/27/2015 9:21 PM, RichA wrote:
On Monday, 27 July 2015 10:52:23 UTC-4, peterN wrote: On 7/27/2015 5:42 AM, nospam wrote: In article , Bill W wrote: Not such a great analogy. Cameras are used as tools with a purpose, and some purposes require greater quality than others. CD's have one purpose, listening to music. Another problem is that lots of folks - maybe most - clearly don't care at all about sound quality. Some of the codecs & specs that are used are simply not very good. Oddly enough, vinyl is having its own upward blip, because some people think it sounds better. I think that's a good development, even if those people are crazy... they're hipsters who think it's cool. They also think hiss = warmth. and distortion. Part of the problem, or maybe the whole problem, became crystal clear to me many years ago. I bought a Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs album, and the sound was amazing. i have a couple of those. That was before CD's came out, and when the CD of that album came out, I couldn't wait to listen to it. I assumed it would be beyond belief. Well, it sucked. Flat, lifeless, everything you always hear from the vinyl nuts. But it was representative of the overall problem. It was simply badly done. Very badly done. It really was hit or miss back then. early cds were poorly mastered, which has nothing to do with being digital. cds are much better than vinyl ever could dream of. Another thing many people just don't understand is that if you listen to one of those really great sounding vinyl LP's from years ago on high end equipment, you will soon realize that the sound on that LP is total crap, and it was simply being "healed" by a crappy sound system that masked all of the flaws. vinyl has always been total crap. it's that there wasn't anything better until cds came along. it's a tiny needle wiggling in a groove. it's horribly primitive. So says the judgemental one, while not mentioning that lots of people like the sound of vinyl. While waiting at a light this morning, some A-hole was playing digital sounds with a booming bass, that my car was shaking, and the sound through closed windows, was drowning out the sound of my radio. -- PeterN Some cities (Miami?) have laws against that, I think theirs is that you can't play it loud enough so someone can clearly hear it 20ft away with your car windows closed. If I had my druthers, I would like to see the vehicles equipped like that, when used by those inconsiderate *******s in th emanner I described, confiscated, their radios permanently disabled, and the drivers ears permanently plugged. -- PeterN |
#23
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DSLR sales. Only two ways they can go
On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 18:18:43 -0700 (PDT), RichA
wrote: On Sunday, 26 July 2015 23:34:19 UTC-4, Bill W wrote: On Sun, 26 Jul 2015 19:58:09 -0700 (PDT), RichA wrote: Either they level off, somewhere around 50% of their sales in 2010 or less, or in three years, DSLR sales will be almost non-existent. It depends. If the mfr's can march on with technical improvements, and the advantage of DSLR's over anything else remains sizable enough, maybe not. If this sounds alarmist, check out CD or vinyl sales from their highest sales year till now. The drop in sales isn't some minor economic blip, it's an evolution of the market. Not such a great analogy. Cameras are used as tools with a purpose, and some purposes require greater quality than others. CD's have one purpose, listening to music. Another problem is that lots of folks - maybe most - clearly don't care at all about sound quality. Some of the codecs & specs that are used are simply not very good. Oddly enough, vinyl is having its own upward blip, because some people think it sounds better. I think that's a good development, even if those people are crazy... Kind of like cellphone users who used to have cameras? I'd say kind of. If the phone suits their purposes, their previous camera probably wasn't much better, or if it was, they had no idea how to use anything but the shutter. Besides that, today's cell cameras are pretty good, and the IQ on some of them will obviously be better than on some cameras. |
#24
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DSLR sales. Only two ways they can go
In article , PeterN
wrote: While waiting at a light this morning, some A-hole was playing digital sounds with a booming bass, that my car was shaking, and the sound through closed windows, was drowning out the sound of my radio. Some cities (Miami?) have laws against that, I think theirs is that you can't play it loud enough so someone can clearly hear it 20ft away with your car windows closed. If I had my druthers, I would like to see the vehicles equipped like that, when used by those inconsiderate *******s in th emanner I described, confiscated, their radios permanently disabled, and the drivers ears permanently plugged. you might be able to have your wish if they're in one of the recalled chrysler vehicles. |
#25
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DSLR sales. Only two ways they can go
In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote: the fact is that cd audio far surpasses vinyl. this can be proven mathematically. where has that been proved. ? nyquist-shannon CD sales dropping vinyl sales increasing currently but I don;t think that proves which is best for what purpose. vinyl sales are a tiny fraction of the industry, even with whatever increase there might have been. you can always downgrade cd to sound like vinyl but you can't ever make a vinyl record sound as good as a cd. it's *impossible*. CD have already been downgraded from the original 24 bit recording that the better studios use. nonsense. cds have never been downgraded. you have no idea what you're talking about, as usual. |
#26
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DSLR sales. Only two ways they can go
On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 06:00:22 -0400, nospam
wrote: In article , Eric Stevens wrote: There are two weak points in most systems. The first is the cartridge and associated bits and pieces. The second is most definitely the speakers. Amplifiers are reasonably easy to do. cds eliminates the first one. the rest you can't eliminate. it's a bit hard to listen to music if you don't have speakers or an amplifier. It can be done. A cactus needle held in the teeth and held agains the vynil record will work. Not vey practical, but in an emergency, whatever works. |
#27
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DSLR sales. Only two ways they can go
On Tue, 28 Jul 2015 17:38:32 -0400, nospam
wrote: In article , Whisky-dave wrote: the fact is that cd audio far surpasses vinyl. this can be proven mathematically. where has that been proved. ? nyquist-shannon CD sales dropping vinyl sales increasing currently but I don;t think that proves which is best for what purpose. vinyl sales are a tiny fraction of the industry, even with whatever increase there might have been. you can always downgrade cd to sound like vinyl but you can't ever make a vinyl record sound as good as a cd. it's *impossible*. CD have already been downgraded from the original 24 bit recording that the better studios use. nonsense. cds have never been downgraded. All kinds of things are done to the recorded music before it makes its way on to the final CD version. To say the music is not downgraded in the process is nonsense. you have no idea what you're talking about, as usual. -- Regards, Eric Stevens |
#28
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DSLR sales. Only two ways they can go
In article , Eric Stevens
wrote: you can always downgrade cd to sound like vinyl but you can't ever make a vinyl record sound as good as a cd. it's *impossible*. CD have already been downgraded from the original 24 bit recording that the better studios use. nonsense. cds have never been downgraded. All kinds of things are done to the recorded music before it makes its way on to the final CD version. To say the music is not downgraded in the process is nonsense. what's been done prior to producing a cd is irrelevant. cds have *not* been downgraded nor have they been upgraded. they are red book compliant and have been all along. and even if something did change, it doesn't matter. the fact remains that a cd can contain *everything* a vinyl record contains plus a *lot* more. for those who like the 'warmth' (i.e., distortion) of vinyl, then they can add that back digitally. |
#29
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DSLR sales. Only two ways they can go
On 27/07/2015 10:58, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jul 2015 23:31:28 -0700, Bill wrote: On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 00:56:07 -0400, wrote: In , Bill W wrote: If this sounds alarmist, check out CD or vinyl sales from their highest sales year till now. The drop in sales isn't some minor economic blip, it's an evolution of the market. Not such a great analogy. Cameras are used as tools with a purpose, and some purposes require greater quality than others. CD's have one purpose, listening to music. Another problem is that lots of folks - maybe most - clearly don't care at all about sound quality. Some of the codecs & specs that are used are simply not very good. Oddly enough, vinyl is having its own upward blip, because some people think it sounds better. I think that's a good development, even if those people are crazy... they're hipsters who think it's cool. They also think hiss = warmth. Part of the problem, or maybe the whole problem, became crystal clear to me many years ago. I bought a Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs album, and the sound was amazing. That was before CD's came out, and when the CD of that album came out, I couldn't wait to listen to it. I assumed it would be beyond belief. Well, it sucked. Flat, lifeless, everything you always hear from the vinyl nuts. But it was representative of the overall problem. It was simply badly done. Very badly done. It really was hit or miss back then. That argument is reminiscent of wine, I remember some years ago someone saying there are now plenty of countries with perfect climates that can produce perfect wine year after year but the Frogs claim their wine is better because of unpredictable weather which means the quality of their wine varies from year to year i.e. some years are worse than others. Though I thought 'warmth' of sound usually means that there is a poor frequency response on high frequencies. |
#30
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DSLR sales. Only two ways they can go
In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote: what's been done prior to producing a cd is irrelevant. No it isn't. What they do is chop the original sound up into many pieces and then reconstruct it. so what? the reconstruction is indistinguishable from the original. again, this is something that can be proven. cds have *not* been downgraded nor have they been upgraded. they are red book compliant and have been all along. So what, what has that tom do with it. To be red book complient means you can have 79mins play time rather than 74. It has NOTHING what so ever to do the quality of recording ! it has everything to do with the quality. red book cds are 16 bit, 44.1khz sampling, which *defines* the dynamic range and highest frequency that can be reproduced which is more than the human ear can hear. Try talking about this with someone that worls in teh business on in a recording studio. what for? they don't know much about sampling theory and likely believe the same rubbish you do. try talking about it with electrical engineers who understand the math. |
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