If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#61
|
|||
|
|||
Nikon D7000 is made in China, CHINA!!!
On Thu, 23 Dec 2010 00:13:04 +0000, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote: We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember Eric Stevens saying something like: Of course that was another problem. Then, the Roots group (Humber, Hillman) couldn't control cylinder bore diameter to better than .010" so that when choosing pistons, all engines had to be selectively assembled. Ford had similar problems when machining blocks for crankshaft bearings. Those, too, had to be selectively assembled and bearing shells had a 'fit' code which had to match the housing in the block and the cap (often different). Rover decided to take advantage of generous tolerances to use Loctite to secure cylinder liners in place. But they couldn't machine all blocks/liners sufficiently accurately and liners used to move in the block. On occasion a liner would drop to the point where the top ring on the piston would snap out over the top. Things stopped rather suddenly once that happened. These days I shudder when the British talk of British Craftsmanship. I'll take Japanese craftmanship any time. Hah, it goes back further. An oft-repeated tale, but I actually knew (worked with) a bloke who was there, in the era. RR Merlins were made under licence by Packard. Nobody in RR service/tech departments could believe that Packard's production line could possibly produce engines to the tolerances needed. On stripping a couple down they found them to be better... Originally itwas not Packard but Ford who were to make the Merelin in the US. They had to go through all the RR drawings and rework them to tighten the tolerances to render them fit for production line manufacture. Before they finished this work Packard took over the job and also had to rework the drawings. The British made Merlins relied on considerable 'British Craftsmanship' to enable the less precisely made British Merlins to be assembled. Btw, the bloke I knew was employed by RR to visit the various front-line fighter bases and rebuild worn and battle-damaged Merlins. The RAF mechanics were perfectly capable of doing it, but if he did it, the factory warranty applied. Strange thought - a factory warranty on a fighter engine in the heat of battle and I wonder if the RAF ever claimed it. Probably self-limiting, in that if enemy action caused the damage, the warranty was void. Manufacturing and design problems did cause some engine failures and the loss of aircraft. Eric Stevens |
#62
|
|||
|
|||
Nikon D7000 is made in China, CHINA!!!
On 2010-12-22 16:05:08 -0800, Grimly Curmudgeon
said: We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember Savageduck saying something like: The English motorcycle industry was locked into their post war "Golden age" of the late 40's-early 50's using pre-war 1930's manufacturing technology and design. The Japanese, German and Italian MC factories were newly rebuilt and could introduce innovation in design and manufacturing tech. By 1958 the English manufacturers were behind the curve and once Mike Hailwood won a World 125cc Championship with Mr. Honda's little motorcycles it was all over The British motorcycle industry wasn't short of decent designers and engineers, just that the management couldn't or wouldn't see sense. For example, BSA had a modular range of engines on the drawing board and iirc, the smaller ones actually made it to the metal stage. A basic single cylinder of 200cc, a 400cc twin, a 600cc triple an across-the-frame four of 800cc and get this - a V5 litre bike. All this in 1965 or thereabouts. Of course, the tooling costs would have been high, but if they had indeed put the 200 and 400s into production, they'd have made a start. ....but it didn't happen. -- Regards, Savageduck |
#63
|
|||
|
|||
Nikon D7000 is made in China, CHINA!!!
On 2010-12-22 16:13:04 -0800, Grimly Curmudgeon
said: We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember Eric Stevens saying something like: Of course that was another problem. Then, the Roots group (Humber, Hillman) couldn't control cylinder bore diameter to better than .010" so that when choosing pistons, all engines had to be selectively assembled. Ford had similar problems when machining blocks for crankshaft bearings. Those, too, had to be selectively assembled and bearing shells had a 'fit' code which had to match the housing in the block and the cap (often different). Rover decided to take advantage of generous tolerances to use Loctite to secure cylinder liners in place. But they couldn't machine all blocks/liners sufficiently accurately and liners used to move in the block. On occasion a liner would drop to the point where the top ring on the piston would snap out over the top. Things stopped rather suddenly once that happened. These days I shudder when the British talk of British Craftsmanship. I'll take Japanese craftmanship any time. Hah, it goes back further. An oft-repeated tale, but I actually knew (worked with) a bloke who was there, in the era. RR Merlins were made under licence by Packard. Nobody in RR service/tech departments could believe that Packard's production line could possibly produce engines to the tolerances needed. On stripping a couple down they found them to be better... Btw, the bloke I knew was employed by RR to visit the various front-line fighter bases and rebuild worn and battle-damaged Merlins. The RAF mechanics were perfectly capable of doing it, but if he did it, the factory warranty applied. Strange thought - a factory warranty on a fighter engine in the heat of battle and I wonder if the RAF ever claimed it. Probably self-limiting, in that if enemy action caused the damage, the warranty was void. A 20mm cannon round through the block should pretty much void warranty, but it might just have been another way of implementing Lend Lease. I have a feeling those RR Merlins were found, for the most part in P-51s. So I am not sure just what proportion of Packard built Merlins ended up in RAF aircraft. The Merlin 61 was built in the US & the UK but used the Packard designed split head and ended up in Spitfire Mk IX and P-51s. The later Spitfires used the RR Griffon not the Merlin. English built Merlins came out of 3 RR plants and one English Ford factory. There were just too many variants of the Merlin made for a wide array of aircraft, ranging from all of the British bombers, The Beaufighter, Mosquito, the Hurricane, & Spitfire. All were different. Once the move to replace the Allison in the P-51 was made, it only made sense to build those engines in the US rather than have them make a two way trip across the Atlantic. -- Regards, Savageduck |
#64
|
|||
|
|||
Nikon D7000 is made in China, CHINA!!!
In article 2010122217493137709-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom, Savageduck
writes I have a feeling those RR Merlins were found, for the most part in P-51s. So I am not sure just what proportion of Packard built Merlins ended up in RAF aircraft. The Merlin 61 was built in the US & the UK but used the Packard designed split head and ended up in Spitfire Mk IX and P-51s. The later Spitfires used the RR Griffon not the Merlin. English built Merlins came out of 3 RR plants and one English Ford factory. Ford at Dagenham. Anyone recall the Ford TV advertisement in the UK from 1991, just before the 50th Anniversary of the Battle of Britain that went something like this? Opening scene: a green field with a clear blue sky above. Sound of birds and insects for a few seconds before an engine starts up and the green field scrolls to bottom of screen, leaving blue sky and some fluffy clouds. Then text and dead pan voice-over begins: "Between 1939 and 1945 the Ford Motor Company supplied X (I don't recall number) Merlin engines from its Dagenham factory for the RAF Spitfire aircraft... .... .... One reason why we don't say 'Vorsprung Durch Technik'." Hilarious, but apparently there were a lot of complaints (probably from Audi dealers) and it was quickly pulled. Occasionally look for it on YouTube, but haven't spotted it yet. ;-) -- Kennedy Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed; A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's ****ed. Python Philosophers (replace 'nospam' with 'kennedym' when replying) |
#65
|
|||
|
|||
Nikon D7000 is made in China, CHINA!!!
On Wed, 22 Dec 2010 17:49:31 -0800, Savageduck
wrote: On 2010-12-22 16:13:04 -0800, Grimly Curmudgeon said: We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember Eric Stevens saying something like: Of course that was another problem. Then, the Roots group (Humber, Hillman) couldn't control cylinder bore diameter to better than .010" so that when choosing pistons, all engines had to be selectively assembled. Ford had similar problems when machining blocks for crankshaft bearings. Those, too, had to be selectively assembled and bearing shells had a 'fit' code which had to match the housing in the block and the cap (often different). Rover decided to take advantage of generous tolerances to use Loctite to secure cylinder liners in place. But they couldn't machine all blocks/liners sufficiently accurately and liners used to move in the block. On occasion a liner would drop to the point where the top ring on the piston would snap out over the top. Things stopped rather suddenly once that happened. These days I shudder when the British talk of British Craftsmanship. I'll take Japanese craftmanship any time. Hah, it goes back further. An oft-repeated tale, but I actually knew (worked with) a bloke who was there, in the era. RR Merlins were made under licence by Packard. Nobody in RR service/tech departments could believe that Packard's production line could possibly produce engines to the tolerances needed. On stripping a couple down they found them to be better... Btw, the bloke I knew was employed by RR to visit the various front-line fighter bases and rebuild worn and battle-damaged Merlins. The RAF mechanics were perfectly capable of doing it, but if he did it, the factory warranty applied. Strange thought - a factory warranty on a fighter engine in the heat of battle and I wonder if the RAF ever claimed it. Probably self-limiting, in that if enemy action caused the damage, the warranty was void. A 20mm cannon round through the block should pretty much void warranty, but it might just have been another way of implementing Lend Lease. I have a feeling those RR Merlins were found, for the most part in P-51s. Most of the British bombers used them also e.g. Lancaster and Mosquito. At one stage it was feared that there would be a shortage of Merlins and Lancasters were fitted with Bristol engines. See http://www.aviation-history.com/avro/683.html So I am not sure just what proportion of Packard built Merlins ended up in RAF aircraft. The Merlin 61 was built in the US & the UK but used the Packard designed split head and ended up in Spitfire Mk IX and P-51s. The later Spitfires used the RR Griffon not the Merlin. English built Merlins came out of 3 RR plants and one English Ford factory. There were just too many variants of the Merlin made for a wide array of aircraft, ranging from all of the British bombers, The Beaufighter, Mosquito, the Hurricane, & Spitfire. All were different. Once the move to replace the Allison in the P-51 was made, it only made sense to build those engines in the US rather than have them make a two way trip across the Atlantic. They needed them anyway. Eric Stevens |
#66
|
|||
|
|||
Nikon D7000 is made in China, CHINA!!!
On 2010-12-22 19:16:49 -0800, Eric Stevens said:
On Wed, 22 Dec 2010 17:49:31 -0800, Savageduck wrote: On 2010-12-22 16:13:04 -0800, Grimly Curmudgeon said: We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember Eric Stevens saying something like: Of course that was another problem. Then, the Roots group (Humber, Hillman) couldn't control cylinder bore diameter to better than .010" so that when choosing pistons, all engines had to be selectively assembled. Ford had similar problems when machining blocks for crankshaft bearings. Those, too, had to be selectively assembled and bearing shells had a 'fit' code which had to match the housing in the block and the cap (often different). Rover decided to take advantage of generous tolerances to use Loctite to secure cylinder liners in place. But they couldn't machine all blocks/liners sufficiently accurately and liners used to move in the block. On occasion a liner would drop to the point where the top ring on the piston would snap out over the top. Things stopped rather suddenly once that happened. These days I shudder when the British talk of British Craftsmanship. I'll take Japanese craftmanship any time. Hah, it goes back further. An oft-repeated tale, but I actually knew (worked with) a bloke who was there, in the era. RR Merlins were made under licence by Packard. Nobody in RR service/tech departments could believe that Packard's production line could possibly produce engines to the tolerances needed. On stripping a couple down they found them to be better... Btw, the bloke I knew was employed by RR to visit the various front-line fighter bases and rebuild worn and battle-damaged Merlins. The RAF mechanics were perfectly capable of doing it, but if he did it, the factory warranty applied. Strange thought - a factory warranty on a fighter engine in the heat of battle and I wonder if the RAF ever claimed it. Probably self-limiting, in that if enemy action caused the damage, the warranty was void. A 20mm cannon round through the block should pretty much void warranty, but it might just have been another way of implementing Lend Lease. I have a feeling those RR Merlins were found, for the most part in P-51s. Most of the British bombers used them also e.g. Lancaster and Mosquito. At one stage it was feared that there would be a shortage of Merlins and Lancasters were fitted with Bristol engines. See http://www.aviation-history.com/avro/683.html Yup! However the British built Merlin type XX used in the Lancaster I, Beaufighter Mk.II, Hurricane Mk.II, & Halifax Mk.II was not used in any Spitfire variant. Packard's involvement with this engine came later. The Spitfires starting with the Mk.II, used the Merlin XII, Merlin 45, Merlin 47, Merlin 50M (negative G carb), Merlin 61/261(Packard modified 2 piece cylinder block), Merlin 66/266. The 1934 Mk.I Spitfire used the Merlin predecessor the RR PV-XII. Packard V-1650 built Merlins had a "2" prefix and were use in Spitfires, P-51s, and replaced Allisons in P-40F & P-40L. Packard first started their program in late 1940, with the first motors delivered in August 1941, and intended for the P-40s being delivered to the RAF, RAAF, SAAF under Lend Lease. The P-51 was just off the North American drawing board at that time. The first Allison powered prototype P-51 flew in October 1940, with production deliveries to the RAF in 1942. In April 1942 the unhappy RAF made the change to add a Merlin 61 and a Spitfire Mk.IX four blade prop to improve high altitude performance labeling it the "Mustang Mk.X " The rest is history. The version of Merlin built by Packard for the P-40 & P-51 was based on the Merlin 28 which was a type XX as used in the Lancaster. Packard made modifications to the original blue prints changing the main bearings from RR copper-lead alloy to silver-lead with iridium plating. They then added the Wright two speed, two stage supercharger. These were also used in some Lancasters & Mosquito, some developmental AC and the F-82 "Twin Mustang". So I am not sure just what proportion of Packard built Merlins ended up in RAF aircraft. The Merlin 61 was built in the US & the UK but used the Packard designed split head and ended up in Spitfire Mk IX and P-51s. The later Spitfires used the RR Griffon not the Merlin. English built Merlins came out of 3 RR plants and one English Ford factory. There were just too many variants of the Merlin made for a wide array of aircraft, ranging from all of the British bombers, The Beaufighter, Mosquito, the Hurricane, & Spitfire. All were different. Once the move to replace the Allison in the P-51 was made, it only made sense to build those engines in the US rather than have them make a two way trip across the Atlantic. They needed them anyway. Yup! I guess the got them. -- Regards, Savageduck |
#67
|
|||
|
|||
Nikon D7000 is made in China, CHINA!!!
On Thu, 23 Dec 2010 23:44:05 +0000, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote: We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember Eric Stevens saying something like: The British made Merlins relied on considerable 'British Craftsmanship' to enable the less precisely made British Merlins to be assembled. Exactly. All the casting faces were 'hand finished' - what a load of cock that was, when a decent machining job avoided it entirely. But the British-made Merlins were considerably more oil-tight than their trans-Atlantic brethren. I don't know how much that was due to quality of machined surfaces vs joint sealant technology. Eric Stevens |
#68
|
|||
|
|||
Nikon D7000 is made in China, CHINA!!!
On Thu, 23 Dec 2010 23:50:50 +0000, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote: We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember Savageduck saying something like: The Merlin 61 was built in the US & the UK but used the Packard designed split head and ended up in Spitfire Mk IX and P-51s. That reminds me of something else he told me. Before the separate cylinder head was introduced, RR had a problem with porous castings and once glycol got into the combustion chambers it produced a dense smoke which the pilot couldn't see through on landing. He said it led to quite a few aircraft and pilot losses on landing. You can't see much round a spitfire's engine cowl anyway. It used to be common to side-slip in to get the cowl out of the field of view. Once you got close to the ground it was a matter of straightening up and landing by feel. If you had a cylinder head leaking glycol you could always side-slip away from the smoke, unless you were unlucky enough to have glycol leaks on both sides. Eric Stevens |
#69
|
|||
|
|||
Nikon D7000 is made in China, CHINA!!!
On 2011-01-01 14:24:11 -0800, Eric Stevens said:
On Thu, 23 Dec 2010 23:44:05 +0000, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote: We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember Eric Stevens saying something like: The British made Merlins relied on considerable 'British Craftsmanship' to enable the less precisely made British Merlins to be assembled. Exactly. All the casting faces were 'hand finished' - what a load of cock that was, when a decent machining job avoided it entirely. But the British-made Merlins were considerably more oil-tight than their trans-Atlantic brethren. I don't know how much that was due to quality of machined surfaces vs joint sealant technology. Eric Stevens Where did that piece of information come from? Sounds apocryphal to me. -- Regards, Savageduck |
#70
|
|||
|
|||
Nikon D7000 is made in China, CHINA!!!
On Sat, 1 Jan 2011 14:32:32 -0800, Savageduck
wrote: On 2011-01-01 14:24:11 -0800, Eric Stevens said: On Thu, 23 Dec 2010 23:44:05 +0000, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote: We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember Eric Stevens saying something like: The British made Merlins relied on considerable 'British Craftsmanship' to enable the less precisely made British Merlins to be assembled. Exactly. All the casting faces were 'hand finished' - what a load of cock that was, when a decent machining job avoided it entirely. But the British-made Merlins were considerably more oil-tight than their trans-Atlantic brethren. I don't know how much that was due to quality of machined surfaces vs joint sealant technology. Eric Stevens Where did that piece of information come from? Sounds apocryphal to me. Royal New Zealand Airforce, which at one time operated both P-51s and Mosquitos. I have no direct knowledge of my own. From my days of owning a Triumph motorcycle, I do know the miraculous properties of Rolls Royce Gasket Cement - a sticky rubbery brew specially developed to help keep the oil inside the Merlin. Eric Stevens |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Nikon's first QC disaster is...made in CHINA! | knotnau | Digital SLR Cameras | 10 | August 17th 09 11:42 AM |
Nikon's first QC disaster is...made in CHINA! | Earle Jones | Digital Photography | 0 | August 14th 09 05:56 AM |
Nikon's first QC disaster is...made in CHINA! | Earle Jones | Digital SLR Cameras | 0 | August 14th 09 05:56 AM |
Nikon shifts production to China. CHINA! | RichA[_3_] | Digital SLR Cameras | 47 | December 15th 08 07:49 PM |
Olympus GOES CHEAP. E-3, the flagship, MADE IN CHINA, CHINA!!!! | RichA | Digital SLR Cameras | 20 | November 10th 07 03:45 PM |