Nikon D7000 is made in China, CHINA!!!

On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 04:00:17 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2010-12-21 02:43:36 -0800, Eric Stevens said:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 19:03:32 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2010-12-20 18:16:12 -0800, Eric Stevens said:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 14:40:25 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2010-12-20 13:40:46 -0800, Eric Stevens said:
Le Snip

A Vincent Black Lightning for me.


Eric Stevens

Now there was a case of 1930's tech taken to its limits. The Vincent BL
was an amazing machine, but even though it had that powerful motor, it
was a 1930's bike (Vincent's 1936 Brough Superior beater) trying to
survive into the fifties and it failed early. The frame, forks, and
suspension were not a good match for the motor, and were obsolete in
1948. Undoubtably a work of art, but the record breaking bikes of the
1948 and early fifties were all custom frame bikes with custom forks.

Not so. I worked with Bob Burns and Russel Wright on Russel's record
breaking Vincent. It was standard forks and frame. The connecting rods
were ex the Vincent Picador engine designed for drone aircraft, and
were worth another 1000rpm. Both cylinders were fitted with ported
rear cylinder heads which gave a better air flow. The gear box was the
standard Vincent close-ratio box. The clutch may have been modified,
but I can't remember.The fuel tank was a special. The oil tank was the
main frame member as in the standard bike.

OK! Not that I doubt you in anyway, but just which "record breaking
Vincent" was that? ...and when was it you did this work?

Garn - you do doubt me, and why not? Several generations ago I was an
engineering student at the University of Canterbury in Christchurch
New Zealand. I was a regular participant in the flying mile events
held on the long flat 'Tram Road' on the outskirts of Christchurch. I
had my 500 Triumph up to 102 mph fairly early in the pice which was
much faster than most of the other road bikes at the time (I
eventually got to 118 mph, but that's another story). Russel Wright
and Bob Burns were running Russel's Vincent there and I became good
fiends with Bob Burns. They set a record of 186 mph on the Tram Road
and later took the bike to Bonneville where they ran it at 198 mph.
Unfortunately about two weeks previously NSU had taken the 'Flying
Deckchair' to Bonneville and set a new record of (I think) 202 mph.
Bob's explanation of why they didn't go faster is that they were just
learning about Nitro fuel and didn't have the courage to tip the jug
over far enough.

Aah! 1955! Actually 184.83 MPH I see. The NSU World Record run in 1956
was 211.4 MPH.

I've also seen 185.xx so I'm not sure what the actual speed might have
been.


http://www.jockeyjournal.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=73122 has a number
of pictures of the bike as I remember it except that the rear
suspension units have been replaced by solid struts. I don't know when
that was done. The front brakes have also gone.


In that case this Kiwi immigrant to California should interest you;

http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/Munro-5825w.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/Munro-5920w.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/Munro-5947w.jpg

That is Bert Munro's record breaking alcohol fueled 1920 Indian Scout.
In 1967 he set the record for streamlined/alcohol 1000cc class, at
183.586 MPH with a one way run of 190.7 MPH. Not quite the machine
movie goers saw Anthony Hopkins riding!

I think Anthony Hopkins was riding a much modified Ducatti. Burt (note
the spelling) Munro used to turn up on the tram road also. I only saw
the streamliner once and it was much rougher than the example you have
just cited. The first time I saw the Indian he brought it along sans
body. I remember he had carburettor problems and it kept flooding. It
was OK once he got the engine started. Burt's (typical) answer was to
use a pair of vicegrip pliers to pinch the fuel line flat. That would
let him get the engine started: the only problem was getting the
pliers off before the engine stopped for lack of fuel. He didn't have
the training wheels on the Indian at that time. To hold the bike
upright at rest he would put his left hand on the ground.

That day he did 148 mph on the first run but only came back at 144
mph. He explained that the engine vibration was such that the
twistgrip started to vibrate closed inside his hand. The twist grip
had large longitudinal grooves (like axle splines) carved into it with
a coarse thread machined into it.

There was no chance that the short Anthony Hopkins could ever do
justice to the tall lean real Burt Munro.




Not the Rollie Free 1948 bike, which was the well publicized record
breaker. Certainly not the 1949/50 Reg Dearden bike which never
actually made a run.
Then there is the Joe Simpson Supercharged which held the American MC
speed record twice. (that is currently at the Solvang Vintage
Motorcycle Museum in California)

...and I hope I am not aging you too much, but just how old are you?

Give me four weeks and I shall be 77.

Well there you have me by 15 years.

You will catch up eventually.



Eric Stevens

On 2010-12-21 13:23:52 -0800, Eric Stevens said:

On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 04:00:17 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2010-12-21 02:43:36 -0800, Eric Stevens said:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 19:03:32 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2010-12-20 18:16:12 -0800, Eric Stevens said:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 14:40:25 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2010-12-20 13:40:46 -0800, Eric Stevens said:
Le Snip

A Vincent Black Lightning for me.


Eric Stevens

Now there was a case of 1930's tech taken to its limits. The Vincent BL
was an amazing machine, but even though it had that powerful motor, it
was a 1930's bike (Vincent's 1936 Brough Superior beater) trying to
survive into the fifties and it failed early. The frame, forks, and
suspension were not a good match for the motor, and were obsolete in
1948. Undoubtably a work of art, but the record breaking bikes of the
1948 and early fifties were all custom frame bikes with custom forks.

Not so. I worked with Bob Burns and Russel Wright on Russel's record
breaking Vincent. It was standard forks and frame. The connecting rods
were ex the Vincent Picador engine designed for drone aircraft, and
were worth another 1000rpm. Both cylinders were fitted with ported
rear cylinder heads which gave a better air flow. The gear box was the
standard Vincent close-ratio box. The clutch may have been modified,
but I can't remember.The fuel tank was a special. The oil tank was the
main frame member as in the standard bike.

OK! Not that I doubt you in anyway, but just which "record breaking
Vincent" was that? ...and when was it you did this work?

Garn - you do doubt me, and why not? Several generations ago I was an
engineering student at the University of Canterbury in Christchurch
New Zealand. I was a regular participant in the flying mile events
held on the long flat 'Tram Road' on the outskirts of Christchurch. I
had my 500 Triumph up to 102 mph fairly early in the pice which was
much faster than most of the other road bikes at the time (I
eventually got to 118 mph, but that's another story). Russel Wright
and Bob Burns were running Russel's Vincent there and I became good
fiends with Bob Burns. They set a record of 186 mph on the Tram Road
and later took the bike to Bonneville where they ran it at 198 mph.
Unfortunately about two weeks previously NSU had taken the 'Flying
Deckchair' to Bonneville and set a new record of (I think) 202 mph.
Bob's explanation of why they didn't go faster is that they were just
learning about Nitro fuel and didn't have the courage to tip the jug
over far enough.

Aah! 1955! Actually 184.83 MPH I see. The NSU World Record run in 1956
was 211.4 MPH.

I've also seen 185.xx so I'm not sure what the actual speed might have
been.


http://www.jockeyjournal.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=73122 has a number
of pictures of the bike as I remember it except that the rear
suspension units have been replaced by solid struts. I don't know when
that was done. The front brakes have also gone.


In that case this Kiwi immigrant to California should interest you;

http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/Munro-5825w.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/Munro-5920w.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/Munro-5947w.jpg

That is Bert Munro's record breaking alcohol fueled 1920 Indian Scout.
In 1967 he set the record for streamlined/alcohol 1000cc class, at
183.586 MPH with a one way run of 190.7 MPH. Not quite the machine
movie goers saw Anthony Hopkins riding!

I think Anthony Hopkins was riding a much modified Ducatti. Burt (note
the spelling)

My goof!

Munro used to turn up on the tram road also. I only saw
the streamliner once and it was much rougher than the example you have
just cited. The first time I saw the Indian he brought it along sans
body. I remember he had carburettor problems and it kept flooding. It
was OK once he got the engine started. Burt's (typical) answer was to
use a pair of vicegrip pliers to pinch the fuel line flat. That would
let him get the engine started: the only problem was getting the
pliers off before the engine stopped for lack of fuel. He didn't have
the training wheels on the Indian at that time. To hold the bike
upright at rest he would put his left hand on the ground.

The streamling for the 1967 Bonneville runs was done by Pierce in San
Gabriel California. That included the addition of retractible "training
wheels". Also I was amazed at the riding position, where he had his
chest on a metal plate on top of the motor.

http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/Munro-5935w.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/Munro-5948w.jpg


That day he did 148 mph on the first run but only came back at 144
mph. He explained that the engine vibration was such that the
twistgrip started to vibrate closed inside his hand. The twist grip
had large longitudinal grooves (like axle splines) carved into it with
a coarse thread machined into it.

There was no chance that the short Anthony Hopkins could ever do
justice to the tall lean real Burt Munro.




Not the Rollie Free 1948 bike, which was the well publicized record
breaker. Certainly not the 1949/50 Reg Dearden bike which never
actually made a run.
Then there is the Joe Simpson Supercharged which held the American MC
speed record twice. (that is currently at the Solvang Vintage
Motorcycle Museum in California)

...and I hope I am not aging you too much, but just how old are you?

Give me four weeks and I shall be 77.

Well there you have me by 15 years.

You will catch up eventually.



Eric Stevens


--
Regards,

Savageduck

On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 10:37:16 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2010-12-21 09:58:20 -0800, Happy Oyster said:

On Fri, 17 Dec 2010 18:25:54 -0600, Rich wrote:

I guess Nikon have given up trying to keep production out of the land of
Mao?

Japan is a high-cost production country. So. long ago, they went to cheaper
countries and let their ware be produced there.

And the Red-hina-Men are corrupt as can be. The mighty still rule like the
ancient cesars. They only wear other cloths.

Are you a snow bound Euro-Rich?

Could you please be a bit more verbose with your question?

--
Krebsforum Lazarus
Das Forum für alternative Krebstherapie

http://www.krebsforum-lazarus.ch

On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 14:07:29 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2010-12-21 13:23:52 -0800, Eric Stevens said:

On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 04:00:17 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2010-12-21 02:43:36 -0800, Eric Stevens said:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 19:03:32 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2010-12-20 18:16:12 -0800, Eric Stevens said:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 14:40:25 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2010-12-20 13:40:46 -0800, Eric Stevens said:
Le Snip

A Vincent Black Lightning for me.


Eric Stevens

Now there was a case of 1930's tech taken to its limits. The Vincent BL
was an amazing machine, but even though it had that powerful motor, it
was a 1930's bike (Vincent's 1936 Brough Superior beater) trying to
survive into the fifties and it failed early. The frame, forks, and
suspension were not a good match for the motor, and were obsolete in
1948. Undoubtably a work of art, but the record breaking bikes of the
1948 and early fifties were all custom frame bikes with custom forks.

Not so. I worked with Bob Burns and Russel Wright on Russel's record
breaking Vincent. It was standard forks and frame. The connecting rods
were ex the Vincent Picador engine designed for drone aircraft, and
were worth another 1000rpm. Both cylinders were fitted with ported
rear cylinder heads which gave a better air flow. The gear box was the
standard Vincent close-ratio box. The clutch may have been modified,
but I can't remember.The fuel tank was a special. The oil tank was the
main frame member as in the standard bike.

OK! Not that I doubt you in anyway, but just which "record breaking
Vincent" was that? ...and when was it you did this work?

Garn - you do doubt me, and why not? Several generations ago I was an
engineering student at the University of Canterbury in Christchurch
New Zealand. I was a regular participant in the flying mile events
held on the long flat 'Tram Road' on the outskirts of Christchurch. I
had my 500 Triumph up to 102 mph fairly early in the pice which was
much faster than most of the other road bikes at the time (I
eventually got to 118 mph, but that's another story). Russel Wright
and Bob Burns were running Russel's Vincent there and I became good
fiends with Bob Burns. They set a record of 186 mph on the Tram Road
and later took the bike to Bonneville where they ran it at 198 mph.
Unfortunately about two weeks previously NSU had taken the 'Flying
Deckchair' to Bonneville and set a new record of (I think) 202 mph.
Bob's explanation of why they didn't go faster is that they were just
learning about Nitro fuel and didn't have the courage to tip the jug
over far enough.

Aah! 1955! Actually 184.83 MPH I see. The NSU World Record run in 1956
was 211.4 MPH.

I've also seen 185.xx so I'm not sure what the actual speed might have
been.


http://www.jockeyjournal.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=73122 has a number
of pictures of the bike as I remember it except that the rear
suspension units have been replaced by solid struts. I don't know when
that was done. The front brakes have also gone.


In that case this Kiwi immigrant to California should interest you;

http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/Munro-5825w.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/Munro-5920w.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/Munro-5947w.jpg

That is Bert Munro's record breaking alcohol fueled 1920 Indian Scout.
In 1967 he set the record for streamlined/alcohol 1000cc class, at
183.586 MPH with a one way run of 190.7 MPH. Not quite the machine
movie goers saw Anthony Hopkins riding!

I think Anthony Hopkins was riding a much modified Ducatti. Burt (note
the spelling)

My goof!

Munro used to turn up on the tram road also. I only saw
the streamliner once and it was much rougher than the example you have
just cited. The first time I saw the Indian he brought it along sans
body. I remember he had carburettor problems and it kept flooding. It
was OK once he got the engine started. Burt's (typical) answer was to
use a pair of vicegrip pliers to pinch the fuel line flat. That would
let him get the engine started: the only problem was getting the
pliers off before the engine stopped for lack of fuel. He didn't have
the training wheels on the Indian at that time. To hold the bike
upright at rest he would put his left hand on the ground.

The streamling for the 1967 Bonneville runs was done by Pierce in San
Gabriel California. That included the addition of retractible "training
wheels". Also I was amazed at the riding position, where he had his
chest on a metal plate on top of the motor.

http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/Munro-5935w.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/Munro-5948w.jpg

Gawd! Thats much more tidy and clean and shiny than when I last saw
it! I do remember that there was only abou 1.5" clearance between the
bottom of the engine and the road. The frame members almost touched
the road when he leaned the machine over.

http://theselvedgeyard.files.wordpre...pg?w=600&h=442
shows the riding position and the standard of finish with which I was
familiar. I think the seat was the fuel tank.


That day he did 148 mph on the first run but only came back at 144
mph. He explained that the engine vibration was such that the
twistgrip started to vibrate closed inside his hand. The twist grip
had large longitudinal grooves (like axle splines) carved into it with
a coarse thread machined into it.

There was no chance that the short Anthony Hopkins could ever do
justice to the tall lean real Burt Munro.




Not the Rollie Free 1948 bike, which was the well publicized record
breaker. Certainly not the 1949/50 Reg Dearden bike which never
actually made a run.
Then there is the Joe Simpson Supercharged which held the American MC
speed record twice. (that is currently at the Solvang Vintage
Motorcycle Museum in California)

...and I hope I am not aging you too much, but just how old are you?

Give me four weeks and I shall be 77.

Well there you have me by 15 years.

You will catch up eventually.



Eric Stevens



Eric Stevens

On 2010-12-21 15:05:50 -0800, Happy Oyster said:

On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 10:37:16 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2010-12-21 09:58:20 -0800, Happy Oyster said:

On Fri, 17 Dec 2010 18:25:54 -0600, Rich wrote:

I guess Nikon have given up trying to keep production out of the land of
Mao?

Japan is a high-cost production country. So. long ago, they went to cheaper
countries and let their ware be produced there.

And the Red-hina-Men are corrupt as can be. The mighty still rule like the
ancient cesars. They only wear other cloths.

Are you a snow bound Euro-Rich?

Could you please be a bit more verbose with your question?

It seems you have a similar prejudiced, and biased mind set to our
resident Canadian purveyor of racist FUD, Rich.

If you have been following the photo newsgroups for any time the
obvious bias of Rich's "modus operandi" would be very apparent.

....but how were you to know that, since today was to the best of our
knowledge, your first appearance in this NG (with the Happy Oyster ID).
So my best guess is the current weather in Europe has you trapped in
front of your keyboard with nothing to do, but reveal your ignorance of
the players in this forum.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 2010-12-21 15:19:51 -0800, Eric Stevens said:

On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 14:07:29 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2010-12-21 13:23:52 -0800, Eric Stevens said:

On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 04:00:17 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2010-12-21 02:43:36 -0800, Eric Stevens said:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 19:03:32 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2010-12-20 18:16:12 -0800, Eric Stevens said:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 14:40:25 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2010-12-20 13:40:46 -0800, Eric Stevens said:
Le Snip

A Vincent Black Lightning for me.


Eric Stevens

Now there was a case of 1930's tech taken to its limits. The Vincent BL
was an amazing machine, but even though it had that powerful motor, it
was a 1930's bike (Vincent's 1936 Brough Superior beater) trying to
survive into the fifties and it failed early. The frame, forks, and
suspension were not a good match for the motor, and were obsolete in
1948. Undoubtably a work of art, but the record breaking bikes of the
1948 and early fifties were all custom frame bikes with custom forks.

Not so. I worked with Bob Burns and Russel Wright on Russel's record
breaking Vincent. It was standard forks and frame. The connecting rods
were ex the Vincent Picador engine designed for drone aircraft, and
were worth another 1000rpm. Both cylinders were fitted with ported
rear cylinder heads which gave a better air flow. The gear box was the
standard Vincent close-ratio box. The clutch may have been modified,
but I can't remember.The fuel tank was a special. The oil tank was the
main frame member as in the standard bike.

OK! Not that I doubt you in anyway, but just which "record breaking
Vincent" was that? ...and when was it you did this work?

Garn - you do doubt me, and why not? Several generations ago I was an
engineering student at the University of Canterbury in Christchurch
New Zealand. I was a regular participant in the flying mile events
held on the long flat 'Tram Road' on the outskirts of Christchurch. I
had my 500 Triumph up to 102 mph fairly early in the pice which was
much faster than most of the other road bikes at the time (I
eventually got to 118 mph, but that's another story). Russel Wright
and Bob Burns were running Russel's Vincent there and I became good
fiends with Bob Burns. They set a record of 186 mph on the Tram Road
and later took the bike to Bonneville where they ran it at 198 mph.
Unfortunately about two weeks previously NSU had taken the 'Flying
Deckchair' to Bonneville and set a new record of (I think) 202 mph.
Bob's explanation of why they didn't go faster is that they were just
learning about Nitro fuel and didn't have the courage to tip the jug
over far enough.

Aah! 1955! Actually 184.83 MPH I see. The NSU World Record run in 1956
was 211.4 MPH.

I've also seen 185.xx so I'm not sure what the actual speed might have
been.


http://www.jockeyjournal.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=73122 has a number
of pictures of the bike as I remember it except that the rear
suspension units have been replaced by solid struts. I don't know when
that was done. The front brakes have also gone.


In that case this Kiwi immigrant to California should interest you;

http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/Munro-5825w.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/Munro-5920w.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/Munro-5947w.jpg

That is Bert Munro's record breaking alcohol fueled 1920 Indian Scout.
In 1967 he set the record for streamlined/alcohol 1000cc class, at
183.586 MPH with a one way run of 190.7 MPH. Not quite the machine
movie goers saw Anthony Hopkins riding!

I think Anthony Hopkins was riding a much modified Ducatti. Burt (note
the spelling)

My goof!

Munro used to turn up on the tram road also. I only saw
the streamliner once and it was much rougher than the example you have
just cited. The first time I saw the Indian he brought it along sans
body. I remember he had carburettor problems and it kept flooding. It
was OK once he got the engine started. Burt's (typical) answer was to
use a pair of vicegrip pliers to pinch the fuel line flat. That would
let him get the engine started: the only problem was getting the
pliers off before the engine stopped for lack of fuel. He didn't have
the training wheels on the Indian at that time. To hold the bike
upright at rest he would put his left hand on the ground.

The streamling for the 1967 Bonneville runs was done by Pierce in San
Gabriel California. That included the addition of retractible "training
wheels". Also I was amazed at the riding position, where he had his
chest on a metal plate on top of the motor.

http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/Munro-5935w.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/Munro-5948w.jpg

Gawd! Thats much more tidy and clean and shiny than when I last saw
it! I do remember that there was only abou 1.5" clearance between the
bottom of the engine and the road. The frame members almost touched
the road when he leaned the machine over.

http://theselvedgeyard.files.wordpre...pg?w=600&h=442
shows the riding position and the standard of finish with which I was
familiar. I think the seat was the fuel tank.

Yup! The filler cap is just off center to the right behind the opening
in the shell.

I think since he actually made 10 trips to Bonneville starting in 1962
and developed a working relationship with Pierce, who was an Indian
tuner in San Gabriel, there was a little embroidery to his legend.
It seems that after his introduction to the Salt Flats with his
original back yard build and those first runs, there were two more
"Munro Specials" built, not in NZ, but in California.

I believe his original is in NZ and is the bike which set the 1962
record (also the bike in your shot). He also set records in 1966, and
1967. The 1967 record bike is the one in the shots I posted, and is
owned by Pierce's heirs.

The Burt Munro story is an amazing one, but there is more to it than
the simple tinkerer who makes one trip to Bonneville, and is then done
after setting the record.

The movie didn't quite tell the whole story. It got turned into an
"under dog against all odds - Cinderella" story, and that was not the
reality. Perhaps his first trip to Bonneville might have resembled some
of that story line, but after that it goes astray.
...and I suspect he was not the simple guy as portrayed by Hopkins.



--
Regards,

Savageduck

On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 15:05:31 +1300, Eric Stevens
wrote:
: On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 17:25:31 -0500, peter
: wrote:
:
: That was the real problem. The British motorcycle industry was stuck
: with what were basically pre-war designs because they were stuck with
: pre-war machine tools and manufacturing methods. To some extent the
: continuance of obsolete designs could be blamed on the government of
: the time which would not allow new models to be introduced until after
: 1949.
:
:
: How do you explain the mechanical issues with the Jag. I know about 10
: people who had them and all have had mechanical issues. The car was
: great when it ran, but IIRC required frequent servicing.
:
: Of course that was another problem. Then, the Roots group (Humber,
: Hillman) couldn't control cylinder bore diameter to better than .010"
: so that when choosing pistons, all engines had to be selectively
: assembled. Ford had similar problems when machining blocks for
: crankshaft bearings. Those, too, had to be selectively assembled and
: bearing shells had a 'fit' code which had to match the housing in the
: block and the cap (often different). Rover decided to take advantage
: of generous tolerances to use Loctite to secure cylinder liners in
: place. But they couldn't machine all blocks/liners sufficiently
: accurately and liners used to move in the block. On occasion a liner
: would drop to the point where the top ring on the piston would snap
: out over the top. Things stopped rather suddenly once that happened.
:
: These days I shudder when the British talk of British Craftsmanship.
: I'll take Japanese craftmanship any time.

To be fair about it, I don't believe I've heard anyone mention British
craftsmanship since I was in college and the favorite conveyance of the
spoiled rich kids was the Austin-Healy 3000.

Bob

On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 16:08:03 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2010-12-21 15:19:51 -0800, Eric Stevens said:

On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 14:07:29 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2010-12-21 13:23:52 -0800, Eric Stevens said:

On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 04:00:17 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2010-12-21 02:43:36 -0800, Eric Stevens said:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 19:03:32 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2010-12-20 18:16:12 -0800, Eric Stevens said:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 14:40:25 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2010-12-20 13:40:46 -0800, Eric Stevens said:
Le Snip

A Vincent Black Lightning for me.


Eric Stevens

Now there was a case of 1930's tech taken to its limits. The Vincent BL
was an amazing machine, but even though it had that powerful motor, it
was a 1930's bike (Vincent's 1936 Brough Superior beater) trying to
survive into the fifties and it failed early. The frame, forks, and
suspension were not a good match for the motor, and were obsolete in
1948. Undoubtably a work of art, but the record breaking bikes of the
1948 and early fifties were all custom frame bikes with custom forks.

Not so. I worked with Bob Burns and Russel Wright on Russel's record
breaking Vincent. It was standard forks and frame. The connecting rods
were ex the Vincent Picador engine designed for drone aircraft, and
were worth another 1000rpm. Both cylinders were fitted with ported
rear cylinder heads which gave a better air flow. The gear box was the
standard Vincent close-ratio box. The clutch may have been modified,
but I can't remember.The fuel tank was a special. The oil tank was the
main frame member as in the standard bike.

OK! Not that I doubt you in anyway, but just which "record breaking
Vincent" was that? ...and when was it you did this work?

Garn - you do doubt me, and why not? Several generations ago I was an
engineering student at the University of Canterbury in Christchurch
New Zealand. I was a regular participant in the flying mile events
held on the long flat 'Tram Road' on the outskirts of Christchurch. I
had my 500 Triumph up to 102 mph fairly early in the pice which was
much faster than most of the other road bikes at the time (I
eventually got to 118 mph, but that's another story). Russel Wright
and Bob Burns were running Russel's Vincent there and I became good
fiends with Bob Burns. They set a record of 186 mph on the Tram Road
and later took the bike to Bonneville where they ran it at 198 mph.
Unfortunately about two weeks previously NSU had taken the 'Flying
Deckchair' to Bonneville and set a new record of (I think) 202 mph.
Bob's explanation of why they didn't go faster is that they were just
learning about Nitro fuel and didn't have the courage to tip the jug
over far enough.

Aah! 1955! Actually 184.83 MPH I see. The NSU World Record run in 1956
was 211.4 MPH.

I've also seen 185.xx so I'm not sure what the actual speed might have
been.


http://www.jockeyjournal.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=73122 has a number
of pictures of the bike as I remember it except that the rear
suspension units have been replaced by solid struts. I don't know when
that was done. The front brakes have also gone.


In that case this Kiwi immigrant to California should interest you;

http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/Munro-5825w.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/Munro-5920w.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/Munro-5947w.jpg

That is Bert Munro's record breaking alcohol fueled 1920 Indian Scout.
In 1967 he set the record for streamlined/alcohol 1000cc class, at
183.586 MPH with a one way run of 190.7 MPH. Not quite the machine
movie goers saw Anthony Hopkins riding!

I think Anthony Hopkins was riding a much modified Ducatti. Burt (note
the spelling)

My goof!

Munro used to turn up on the tram road also. I only saw
the streamliner once and it was much rougher than the example you have
just cited. The first time I saw the Indian he brought it along sans
body. I remember he had carburettor problems and it kept flooding. It
was OK once he got the engine started. Burt's (typical) answer was to
use a pair of vicegrip pliers to pinch the fuel line flat. That would
let him get the engine started: the only problem was getting the
pliers off before the engine stopped for lack of fuel. He didn't have
the training wheels on the Indian at that time. To hold the bike
upright at rest he would put his left hand on the ground.

The streamling for the 1967 Bonneville runs was done by Pierce in San
Gabriel California. That included the addition of retractible "training
wheels". Also I was amazed at the riding position, where he had his
chest on a metal plate on top of the motor.

http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/Munro-5935w.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/Munro-5948w.jpg

Gawd! Thats much more tidy and clean and shiny than when I last saw
it! I do remember that there was only abou 1.5" clearance between the
bottom of the engine and the road. The frame members almost touched
the road when he leaned the machine over.

http://theselvedgeyard.files.wordpre...pg?w=600&h=442
shows the riding position and the standard of finish with which I was
familiar. I think the seat was the fuel tank.

Yup! The filler cap is just off center to the right behind the opening
in the shell.

I think since he actually made 10 trips to Bonneville starting in 1962
and developed a working relationship with Pierce, who was an Indian
tuner in San Gabriel, there was a little embroidery to his legend.
It seems that after his introduction to the Salt Flats with his
original back yard build and those first runs, there were two more
"Munro Specials" built, not in NZ, but in California.

That's true. He used to leave the bike in the US and take the engine
home in his luggage.

I believe his original is in NZ and is the bike which set the 1962
record (also the bike in your shot). He also set records in 1966, and
1967. The 1967 record bike is the one in the shots I posted, and is
owned by Pierce's heirs.

The Burt Munro story is an amazing one, but there is more to it than
the simple tinkerer who makes one trip to Bonneville, and is then done
after setting the record.

The movie didn't quite tell the whole story. It got turned into an
"under dog against all odds - Cinderella" story, and that was not the
reality. Perhaps his first trip to Bonneville might have resembled some
of that story line, but after that it goes astray.
..and I suspect he was not the simple guy as portrayed by Hopkins.

I remember him describing his first qualifying run under the eyes of a
car load of officials. They really felt they had to confirm he could
actually ride at speed. They were following him across the salt at the
stipulated 90 mph when all of a sudden there was a loud noise and a
spray of salt from the back wheel of the Indian and he metaphorically
disappeared over the horizon. When they eventually caught up with him
at the end of the run they congratulated him on the performance of the
Indian but admonished him for going to full speed before he was
qualified. In his inimitable drawl he replied "Hell no, that wasn't
full speed! I was only in second gear and the plugs were starting to
foul up so I just gave her a little blip to clear them".



Eric Stevens

Eric Stevens wrote:

http://theselvedgeyard.files.wordpre...pg?w=600&h=442
shows the riding position and the standard of finish with which I was
familiar. I think the seat was the fuel tank.

Looks like an EJ Holden ('62) in the background.

On 2010-12-21 19:26:46 -0800, Eric Stevens said:

On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 16:08:03 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2010-12-21 15:19:51 -0800, Eric Stevens said:

On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 14:07:29 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2010-12-21 13:23:52 -0800, Eric Stevens said:

On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 04:00:17 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2010-12-21 02:43:36 -0800, Eric Stevens said:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 19:03:32 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2010-12-20 18:16:12 -0800, Eric Stevens said:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 14:40:25 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2010-12-20 13:40:46 -0800, Eric Stevens said:
Le Snip

A Vincent Black Lightning for me.


Eric Stevens

Now there was a case of 1930's tech taken to its limits. The Vincent BL
was an amazing machine, but even though it had that powerful motor, it
was a 1930's bike (Vincent's 1936 Brough Superior beater) trying to
survive into the fifties and it failed early. The frame, forks, and
suspension were not a good match for the motor, and were obsolete in
1948. Undoubtably a work of art, but the record breaking bikes of the
1948 and early fifties were all custom frame bikes with custom forks.

Not so. I worked with Bob Burns and Russel Wright on Russel's record
breaking Vincent. It was standard forks and frame. The connecting rods
were ex the Vincent Picador engine designed for drone aircraft, and
were worth another 1000rpm. Both cylinders were fitted with ported
rear cylinder heads which gave a better air flow. The gear box was the
standard Vincent close-ratio box. The clutch may have been modified,
but I can't remember.The fuel tank was a special. The oil tank was the
main frame member as in the standard bike.

OK! Not that I doubt you in anyway, but just which "record breaking
Vincent" was that? ...and when was it you did this work?

Garn - you do doubt me, and why not? Several generations ago I was an
engineering student at the University of Canterbury in Christchurch
New Zealand. I was a regular participant in the flying mile events
held on the long flat 'Tram Road' on the outskirts of Christchurch. I
had my 500 Triumph up to 102 mph fairly early in the pice which was
much faster than most of the other road bikes at the time (I
eventually got to 118 mph, but that's another story). Russel Wright
and Bob Burns were running Russel's Vincent there and I became good
fiends with Bob Burns. They set a record of 186 mph on the Tram Road
and later took the bike to Bonneville where they ran it at 198 mph.
Unfortunately about two weeks previously NSU had taken the 'Flying
Deckchair' to Bonneville and set a new record of (I think) 202 mph.
Bob's explanation of why they didn't go faster is that they were just
learning about Nitro fuel and didn't have the courage to tip the jug
over far enough.

Aah! 1955! Actually 184.83 MPH I see. The NSU World Record run in 1956
was 211.4 MPH.

I've also seen 185.xx so I'm not sure what the actual speed might have
been.


http://www.jockeyjournal.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=73122 has a number
of pictures of the bike as I remember it except that the rear
suspension units have been replaced by solid struts. I don't know when
that was done. The front brakes have also gone.


In that case this Kiwi immigrant to California should interest you;

http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/Munro-5825w.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/Munro-5920w.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/Munro-5947w.jpg

That is Bert Munro's record breaking alcohol fueled 1920 Indian Scout.
In 1967 he set the record for streamlined/alcohol 1000cc class, at
183.586 MPH with a one way run of 190.7 MPH. Not quite the machine
movie goers saw Anthony Hopkins riding!

I think Anthony Hopkins was riding a much modified Ducatti. Burt (note
the spelling)

My goof!

Munro used to turn up on the tram road also. I only saw
the streamliner once and it was much rougher than the example you have
just cited. The first time I saw the Indian he brought it along sans
body. I remember he had carburettor problems and it kept flooding. It
was OK once he got the engine started. Burt's (typical) answer was to
use a pair of vicegrip pliers to pinch the fuel line flat. That would
let him get the engine started: the only problem was getting the
pliers off before the engine stopped for lack of fuel. He didn't have
the training wheels on the Indian at that time. To hold the bike
upright at rest he would put his left hand on the ground.

The streamling for the 1967 Bonneville runs was done by Pierce in San
Gabriel California. That included the addition of retractible "training
wheels". Also I was amazed at the riding position, where he had his
chest on a metal plate on top of the motor.

http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/Munro-5935w.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/Munro-5948w.jpg

Gawd! Thats much more tidy and clean and shiny than when I last saw
it! I do remember that there was only abou 1.5" clearance between the
bottom of the engine and the road. The frame members almost touched
the road when he leaned the machine over.

http://theselvedgeyard.files.wordpre...pg?w=600&h=442
shows the riding position and the standard of finish with which I was
familiar. I think the seat was the fuel tank.

Yup! The filler cap is just off center to the right behind the opening
in the shell.

I think since he actually made 10 trips to Bonneville starting in 1962
and developed a working relationship with Pierce, who was an Indian
tuner in San Gabriel, there was a little embroidery to his legend.
It seems that after his introduction to the Salt Flats with his
original back yard build and those first runs, there were two more
"Munro Specials" built, not in NZ, but in California.

That's true. He used to leave the bike in the US and take the engine
home in his luggage.

I believe his original is in NZ and is the bike which set the 1962
record (also the bike in your shot). He also set records in 1966, and
1967. The 1967 record bike is the one in the shots I posted, and is
owned by Pierce's heirs.

The Burt Munro story is an amazing one, but there is more to it than
the simple tinkerer who makes one trip to Bonneville, and is then done
after setting the record.

The movie didn't quite tell the whole story. It got turned into an
"under dog against all odds - Cinderella" story, and that was not the
reality. Perhaps his first trip to Bonneville might have resembled some
of that story line, but after that it goes astray.
..and I suspect he was not the simple guy as portrayed by Hopkins.

I remember him describing his first qualifying run under the eyes of a
car load of officials. They really felt they had to confirm he could
actually ride at speed. They were following him across the salt at the
stipulated 90 mph when all of a sudden there was a loud noise and a
spray of salt from the back wheel of the Indian and he metaphorically
disappeared over the horizon. When they eventually caught up with him
at the end of the run they congratulated him on the performance of the
Indian but admonished him for going to full speed before he was
qualified. In his inimitable drawl he replied "Hell no, that wasn't
full speed! I was only in second gear and the plugs were starting to
foul up so I just gave her a little blip to clear them".



Eric Stevens

Loud noise! I like that.
They fired that bike up at the Avila Beach Concours, where I took those
shots, and "loud noise" does not even begin to describe the unique,
sharp, explosive symphony which echoed across that golf course.

The Pierces also had a 1928 Indian 101 Scout built by Sammy Pierce, and
a 1915 Indian 8 valve flat tracker which they fired up. Just amazing
pieces of mechanical history.

http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/Indian-5903w.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/Indian-5914w.jpg

--
Regards,

Savageduck