(update) Protest against CPE law

Draco wrote:
Good going Daniel. Now that is
photojournalism.

Thanks Draco !

http://www.monochromatique.com/anticpe/

--
Daniel Rocha | Photographie
http://www.monochromatique.com

Randy Howard wrote:
I should have been more specific, but there was a smiley, which
you snipped.

Don't worry... I have not taken your comments as an attack for
my photographs !

Nothing against the pictures, they do a great job of conveying
the situation, which led me to that response.

Thanks Randy !

If anyone needs a clearer example of how messed up the labor
system is there, they need to only look at your pictures.

Thanks again... In France the movement or protest were the
bigger... In all the France, and not just in Paris. Universities,
Colleges stop their activities to go in the streets for shouting
their opinion, to the government.

Thanks for your comments.

http://www.monochromatique.com/anticpe/

--
Daniel Rocha | Photographie
http://www.monochromatique.com

David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
Every job I've had in my life has been that type of "at-will"
employment, and I've been working now for 37 years. Most jobs are
like that in the US.

In France it's not the case.

In France and in Europe, nobody can fire anyone for _no_ reason.
There is a law.

What's the big deal? In practice, employers
don't fire people who are being productive; and if you get fired one

Not only... An employer can fire anybody for various of "personal"
reasons, because he can find a lot of people to take the place.

place, there are lots of others around. (And I've never been close to
being fired anywhere yet, despite being fairly loud-mouthed.)

A lot of people is not satisfied with this precarity.
It's the reason of the protest !

http://www.monochromatique.com/anticpe/

--
Daniel Rocha | Photographie
http://www.monochromatique.com

William Graham wrote:
Most good jobs require on-the-job training. Sometimes extensive
training that doesn't begin to pay your employer back for several
months. So they aren't anxious to let you go and throw all that
training away......

Why are you telling me that ?!

I have not organized the protest in the entire France ! )

But I'm not convinced that this is the case for the jobs for the
less of 26 years old.

http://www.monochromatique.com/anticpe/

--
Daniel Rocha | Photographie
http://www.monochromatique.com

"Draco" wrote in news:1147888990.014456.145900
@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Good going Daniel. Now that is
photojournalism.


Draco


Getting even isn't good enough.



Indeed, I'm always waiting for the next one!!

"Daniel Rocha" writes:

David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
Every job I've had in my life has been that type of "at-will"
employment, and I've been working now for 37 years. Most jobs are
like that in the US.

In France it's not the case.

In France and in Europe, nobody can fire anyone for _no_ reason.
There is a law.

Which means you have to work with lots of incompetent malcontents,
right? I'd rather risk being fired myself sometimes than put up with
having to work with people who *should* be fired all the time.

What's the big deal? In practice, employers
don't fire people who are being productive; and if you get fired one

Not only... An employer can fire anybody for various of "personal"
reasons, because he can find a lot of people to take the place.

place, there are lots of others around. (And I've never been close to
being fired anywhere yet, despite being fairly loud-mouthed.)

A lot of people is not satisfied with this precarity.
It's the reason of the protest !

Security and freedom are often in conflict.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, , http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
RKBA: http://www.dd-b.net/carry/
Pics: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/
Dragaera/Steven Brust: http://dragaera.info/

"David Dyer-Bennet" wrote in message
...
"Daniel Rocha" writes:

David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
Every job I've had in my life has been that type of "at-will"
employment, and I've been working now for 37 years. Most jobs are
like that in the US.

In France it's not the case.

In France and in Europe, nobody can fire anyone for _no_ reason.
There is a law.

Which means you have to work with lots of incompetent malcontents,
right? I'd rather risk being fired myself sometimes than put up with
having to work with people who *should* be fired all the time.

Exactly. Back in the 70's I had to put up with working with incompetents in
a very dangerous job. They were hired because of the "Affirmative Action
Program", which I knew nothing about at the time. All I knew was that my
employer had, for some inexplicable reason lost his mind, and hired people
who were totally incompetent to assist me while working with very high
voltage and high current systems. - I speak of power supplies that used
12.47 kilovolt AC inputs, and in some cases put out over 3.0 megawatts of DC
power. These people were no help at all. As a matter of fact, I had to do
two jobs. My regular job, as well as watching these people all the time to
keep them from killing themselves and/or others. One of these guys took
elementary algebra 6 times and flunked it every time......To give you an
example of his incompetence, one evening we were asked to turn off one of
our supplies. I told him where it was, and asked him to go to that building
and turn it off. (I thought this would be a job that hi might be able to
handle on his own) On his way over to the building, he forgot which supply
he was supposed to turn off. So, instead of coming back to ask me again, he
went into a building at random, (we had about two dozen of them, with 8
supplies in each one) and picked a supply at random, and turned it
off......:^)

David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
Which means you have to work with lots of incompetent malcontents,
right?

Not right at all...

In all contracts of employment there is a tryout period which is done
to "test". It's easy to detect an incompetent.

After that, it's possible to fire anybody which makes errors.
It's in the labour law.

--
Daniel Rocha | Photographie
http://www.monochromatique.com

David Dyer-Bennet wrote:

"Daniel Rocha" writes:


David Dyer-Bennet wrote:

Every job I've had in my life has been that type of "at-will"
employment, and I've been working now for 37 years. Most jobs are
like that in the US.

In France it's not the case.

In France and in Europe, nobody can fire anyone for _no_ reason.
There is a law.


Which means you have to work with lots of incompetent malcontents,
right? I'd rather risk being fired myself sometimes than put up with
having to work with people who *should* be fired all the time.

You're confusing "cannot be fired for NO reason" with "cannot be fired
for ANY reason".

You can be fired in France.

But the employer would have to demonstrate sufficient "cause"
(misconduct or documented failure to perform the work for which you were
hired, or a layoff - "lack of work" i.e. the company has no work for you
to do).

What they cannot do is fire you and hire someone else just because they
can pay the new hire less money; so the CEO can line his own pockets at
the expense of productive employees.

Under current French law you have a 90 day probationary period where you
can be let go with no reason given. But after that first 90 days an
employer would have to show cause for terminating you.

The proposed law would set up a new under-class of employees, based on
age; workers who would have less protection. Instead of 90 days, the
probationary period for this under-class would be 2 years.

Such employees would be generally paid less than longer term employees,
and corporations could churn employees from this under-class to keep
from ever having to pay higher wages. It's a foot in the door for the
kind of outsourcing we've seen here in the states where vested employees
are replaced by temporary employees who are paid less and enjoy fewer
benefits.

It's a hidden "tax" transfering wealth from workers to managers.

Which is why the French labor unions & student unions oppose it.

no_name wrote:
David Dyer-Bennet wrote:

"Daniel Rocha" writes:

David Dyer-Bennet wrote:

Every job I've had in my life has been that type of "at-will"
employment, and I've been working now for 37 years. Most jobs are
like that in the US.

In France it's not the case.

In France and in Europe, nobody can fire anyone for _no_ reason.
There is a law.

Which means you have to work with lots of incompetent malcontents,
right? I'd rather risk being fired myself sometimes than put up with
having to work with people who *should* be fired all the time.

You're confusing "cannot be fired for NO reason" with "cannot be fired
for ANY reason".

You can be fired in France.

But the employer would have to demonstrate sufficient "cause"
(misconduct or documented failure to perform the work for which you were
hired, or a layoff - "lack of work" i.e. the company has no work for you
to do).

In California the enforcement is achieved through the employer's
Worker's Compensation insurance rates go up if they 'lay off' too many
people due to erratic workload & scheduling. Some will call it firing,
then the employee can fight that and the employer has to provide some
evidence of incompetence and having given notice of the problem and a
chance to correct it. Worker's Compensation insurance (UI/Unemployment
Insurance) is mandated, I'm not sure exactly how that works, it looks
like government welfare but comes from insurance paid by employers.
Employment contracts often specify an initial probation period.

What they cannot do is fire you and hire someone else just because they
can pay the new hire less money; so the CEO can line his own pockets at
the expense of productive employees.

Under current French law you have a 90 day probationary period where you
can be let go with no reason given. But after that first 90 days an
employer would have to show cause for terminating you.

The proposed law would set up a new under-class of employees, based on
age; workers who would have less protection. Instead of 90 days, the
probationary period for this under-class would be 2 years.

Such employees would be generally paid less than longer term employees,
and corporations could churn employees from this under-class to keep
from ever having to pay higher wages. It's a foot in the door for the
kind of outsourcing we've seen here in the states where vested employees
are replaced by temporary employees who are paid less and enjoy fewer
benefits.

It's a hidden "tax" transfering wealth from workers to managers.

Which is why the French labor unions & student unions oppose it.