negatives last longer?

so whats the storage shelf life of negatives compared to CD-Rs?

dont risk storing your photos on CD-Rs:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/ptech/05/06/disc.rot.ap/

"I'm hoping they'll hold out till that next medium gets popular, and everyone
gets to buy everything over again," he says.

yep, like having to copy your photos/data/games/porn from ZIP/JAZ/SYQUEST
to CD-R and now to DVD...
.... and then once again to something else as PCs soon wont read CDs and DVDs.
so it's back to using film if you want to reprint your photos in 10 years.

On 10 Nov 2004 04:42:00 GMT, ATSPAM
(Developwebsites) wrote:

so whats the storage shelf life of negatives compared to CD-Rs?

The short answer is ... No one knows for sure.


dont risk storing your photos on CD-Rs:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/ptech/05/06/disc.rot.ap/


Within the industry that is not typical although that is not the only
case I've read about.

Currently CDs and DVDs are the longest lived digital storage medium
available.

"I'm hoping they'll hold out till that next medium gets popular, and everyone
gets to buy everything over again," he says.

Something to remember. No storage medium last forever. Each type has
its own problems.

Although it pertains to scanning slides the storage information might
be of interest http://www.rogerhalstead.com/scanning.htm


yep, like having to copy your photos/data/games/porn from ZIP/JAZ/SYQUEST
to CD-R and now to DVD...

I have not had any problems with CDs and I've been using DVDs for a
couple of years now, BUT DVDs have their own set of problems. The
storage medium is *between* two layers of plastic. Bending DVDs can
easily create fractures in the coating. Bending as in the way most
people take them out of the case instead of just pressing in the
center.

The storage conditions are much the same as CDs. Keep them stored on
edge and in a jewel case. Do not store them in stacks. Keep them out
of direct sunlight. Keep them cool and in a low humidity environment.
Do not store with old books and papers and handle them by the edges
(with clean hands).

... and then once again to something else as PCs soon wont read CDs and DVDs.
so it's back to using film if you want to reprint your photos in 10 years.

Properly processed and stored negatives as well as transparencies
should last 50 years plus. I just finished copying a bunch of slides
that are over 50 years old. Most look just like they did originally,
BUT some have faded, some have a color shift and some have handeling
damage (dirt and fingerprints) Some were cooked in a slide projector.

Quality CDs *should* last that long as well, but economics has won out
and the really good ones are no longer available. Still, the projected
life based on accelerated aging says 50 to 100 years.

Although digital storage is much more compact and easier to handle it
is also much more prone to becoming corrupt, or lost.

Both film and digital storage are fragile when handled. Both have
their own storage requirements. Barring something causing
contamination either in manufacture, processing, or storage, both
should last a very long time. (50 years or more) Unfortunately people
have stored prints in the old albums that had an adhesive which caused
rapid deteriorate or fading or with papers that have unfriendly
chemicals in them. Slides and negatives, even though left in the box
or package are susceptible to the fumes from old papers and the mildew
that goes along with them.

I don't think any one has pinned down the reasons for some of the
premature aging/failure of optical storage. At least I've not seen
anything definitive.

Good Luck

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On 10 Nov 2004 04:42:00 GMT, ATSPAM
(Developwebsites) wrote:

so whats the storage shelf life of negatives compared to CD-Rs?

The short answer is ... No one knows for sure.


dont risk storing your photos on CD-Rs:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/ptech/05/06/disc.rot.ap/


Within the industry that is not typical although that is not the only
case I've read about.

Currently CDs and DVDs are the longest lived digital storage medium
available.

"I'm hoping they'll hold out till that next medium gets popular, and everyone
gets to buy everything over again," he says.

Something to remember. No storage medium last forever. Each type has
its own problems.

Although it pertains to scanning slides the storage information might
be of interest http://www.rogerhalstead.com/scanning.htm


yep, like having to copy your photos/data/games/porn from ZIP/JAZ/SYQUEST
to CD-R and now to DVD...

I have not had any problems with CDs and I've been using DVDs for a
couple of years now, BUT DVDs have their own set of problems. The
storage medium is *between* two layers of plastic. Bending DVDs can
easily create fractures in the coating. Bending as in the way most
people take them out of the case instead of just pressing in the
center.

The storage conditions are much the same as CDs. Keep them stored on
edge and in a jewel case. Do not store them in stacks. Keep them out
of direct sunlight. Keep them cool and in a low humidity environment.
Do not store with old books and papers and handle them by the edges
(with clean hands).

... and then once again to something else as PCs soon wont read CDs and DVDs.
so it's back to using film if you want to reprint your photos in 10 years.

Properly processed and stored negatives as well as transparencies
should last 50 years plus. I just finished copying a bunch of slides
that are over 50 years old. Most look just like they did originally,
BUT some have faded, some have a color shift and some have handeling
damage (dirt and fingerprints) Some were cooked in a slide projector.

Quality CDs *should* last that long as well, but economics has won out
and the really good ones are no longer available. Still, the projected
life based on accelerated aging says 50 to 100 years.

Although digital storage is much more compact and easier to handle it
is also much more prone to becoming corrupt, or lost.

Both film and digital storage are fragile when handled. Both have
their own storage requirements. Barring something causing
contamination either in manufacture, processing, or storage, both
should last a very long time. (50 years or more) Unfortunately people
have stored prints in the old albums that had an adhesive which caused
rapid deteriorate or fading or with papers that have unfriendly
chemicals in them. Slides and negatives, even though left in the box
or package are susceptible to the fumes from old papers and the mildew
that goes along with them.

I don't think any one has pinned down the reasons for some of the
premature aging/failure of optical storage. At least I've not seen
anything definitive.

Good Luck

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

ATSPAM (Developwebsites) writes:

so whats the storage shelf life of negatives compared to CD-Rs?

dont risk storing your photos on CD-Rs:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/ptech/05/06/disc.rot.ap/

That article isn't about CD-Rs; it's about pressed CDs, which are a
completely different technology (in terms of media life). And it's
the result of manufacturing defects.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, , http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
RKBA: http://noguns-nomoney.com/ http://www.dd-b.net/carry/
Pics: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/
Dragaera/Steven Brust: http://dragaera.info/

Developwebsites wrote:
so whats the storage shelf life of negatives compared to CD-Rs?

dont risk storing your photos on CD-Rs:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/ptech/05/06/disc.rot.ap/

"I'm hoping they'll hold out till that next medium gets popular, and
everyone gets to buy everything over again," he says.

yep, like having to copy your photos/data/games/porn from ZIP/JAZ/SYQUEST
to CD-R and now to DVD...
... and then once again to something else as PCs soon wont read CDs and
DVDs. so it's back to using film if you want to reprint your photos in 10
years.

It is hard to say. Negatives come in many flavors and some last longer
than others. Most color negatives properly processed will last a long time,
but there will be some color and other effects showing up in only a few
years. Most people well be able to see the loss in as little as ten.

The same is true of CD's. Some will likely last a long time, and some a
short time. In any group one many fail suddenly at any time resulting in a
total loss. CD's don't tend to loose quality, they just loose the whole
thing. Since no one has 50 years of experience with the current CD
technology, there is no way of knowing what it really will do in 50 years,
we can only guess based on accelerated testing that may or may not be valid.


--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

In article ,
"Joseph Meehan" wrote:

It is hard to say. Negatives come in many flavors and some last longer
than others. Most color negatives properly processed will last a long time,
but there will be some color and other effects showing up in only a few
years. Most people well be able to see the loss in as little as ten.

Depends on the film base, roll film that maybe somewhat true.
I have stacks of 4x5 negatives from almost 20 years ago that print the same
as when they were processed.

To the OP: look up the writings of Douglas Nishamora (Spelling?)
you'll get better info on film archivability than here on this group.
--
LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

In article ,
"Joseph Meehan" wrote:

It is hard to say. Negatives come in many flavors and some last longer
than others. Most color negatives properly processed will last a long time,
but there will be some color and other effects showing up in only a few
years. Most people well be able to see the loss in as little as ten.

Depends on the film base, roll film that maybe somewhat true.
I have stacks of 4x5 negatives from almost 20 years ago that print the same
as when they were processed.

To the OP: look up the writings of Douglas Nishamora (Spelling?)
you'll get better info on film archivability than here on this group.
--
LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

"David Dyer-Bennet" wrote in message
...
ATSPAM (Developwebsites) writes:

so whats the storage shelf life of negatives compared to CD-Rs?

dont risk storing your photos on CD-Rs:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/ptech/05/06/disc.rot.ap/

That article isn't about CD-Rs; it's about pressed CDs, which are a
completely different technology (in terms of media life). And it's
the result of manufacturing defects.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, , http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
RKBA: http://noguns-nomoney.com/ http://www.dd-b.net/carry/
Pics: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/
http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/
Dragaera/Steven Brust: http://dragaera.info/


Saying things like that to Developwebsites is like ****ing in the wind. It
may be a relief to you, but overall, it only has a negative result.
This is a guy who claims to develop websites, but only on Yahoo. He's also
the guy that claimed digital was only a fad, and compared film to a 2 mp
camera that he thought was state of the art. He probably lives under a
large rock with several luddite friends.

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:21:56 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:

Most color negatives properly processed will last a long time,
but there will be some color and other effects showing up in only a few
years. Most people well be able to see the loss in as little as ten.

So, Negatives = a few years. CD's = Ten years and counting. Assuming
of course we wanted to retain the color information captured on the
day the photo was taken.

Glad that's settled.

--
Owamanga!

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:21:56 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:

Most color negatives properly processed will last a long time,
but there will be some color and other effects showing up in only a few
years. Most people well be able to see the loss in as little as ten.

So, Negatives = a few years. CD's = Ten years and counting. Assuming
of course we wanted to retain the color information captured on the
day the photo was taken.

Glad that's settled.

--
Owamanga!