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Nikon D600 a compromise but ok



 
 
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  #11  
Old September 15th 12, 03:09 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Floyd L. Davidson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,138
Default Nikon D600 a compromise but ok

PeterN wrote:
On 9/14/2012 9:15 PM, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
PeterN wrote:
On 9/14/2012 8:05 PM, RichA wrote:
On Sep 14, 3:47 am, (Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:
RichA wrote:
On Sep 13, 3:01 am, Me wrote:
On 13/09/2012 6:19 p.m., Rich wrote: Yes, it has a FF sensor, 24mp. But, you don't get it for $2099 and not
suffer some compromises. 1/2 plastic body, 0.7x viewfinder, D7000 body
ergonomics (Yeesh! I hope it's closer to the D300 body) but for someone who
needs FF on the cheap, this is it. The kit lens, if it's as good as the
16-85DX for $600 should be good though.

The VF is 100% -

VF magnification is 0.7.

Just like all of Nikon's top of the line FX bodies, the
D3, the D3s, the D3X, the D4. The D800 and now the
D600 too.

The D700 is different, it's 95% and 0.72x magnification.

Other than that you don't know what that means, did you
have a point?

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

Fanboy alert. Never mention anything even seemingly negative.


Exactly when did you give anything a positive review?


When did he give anything a *valid* review!


I don't believe you actually agree with something I posted. G


I didn't. Can't you read anything right? Your article
is as non-responive as his. Non-sequiturs are not
debating points!

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
  #12  
Old September 15th 12, 04:56 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Rob
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 236
Default Nikon D600 a compromise but ok

On 15/09/2012 12:06 PM, Rich wrote:
PeterN wrote in
:

On 9/14/2012 8:05 PM, RichA wrote:
On Sep 14, 3:47 am, (Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:
RichA wrote:
On Sep 13, 3:01 am, Me wrote:
On 13/09/2012 6:19 p.m., Rich wrote: Yes, it has a FF sensor,
24mp. But, you don't get it for $2099 and not
suffer some compromises. 1/2 plastic body, 0.7x viewfinder,
D7000 body ergonomics (Yeesh! I hope it's closer to the D300
body) but for someone who needs FF on the cheap, this is it. The
kit lens, if it's as good as the 16-85DX for $600 should be good
though.

The VF is 100% -

VF magnification is 0.7.

Just like all of Nikon's top of the line FX bodies, the
D3, the D3s, the D3X, the D4. The D800 and now the
D600 too.

The D700 is different, it's 95% and 0.72x magnification.

Other than that you don't know what that means, did you
have a point?

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

Fanboy alert. Never mention anything even seemingly negative.


Exactly when did you give anything a positive review?


Most cameras today function well enough when they work that anyone can
take a decent image. Low-light capability is very good, focusing (in
most cases is very good). So, the only differentiators are the problems
and the short-comings. $2100 for a 1/2 plastic body when the D300 was
$1700 and all metal, 4 years ago? Counter-balancing this is that it's a
$2100 FF. The D800 and it's horrible focusing problems, a deal-killer
for many a new Canon owner. These are the only things that really make a
difference, not whether a D600 and D7000 have fractionally different high
ISO capability.


Where did you get the horrible focus problems from?? So you own a D800
then.? or just read about them?

For a start its a not bad just a few rants and lots of BS you don't have
to use the LHS for the focus, its not a sports action camera. Not all
cameras came with the problem. There have been no cameras released since
mid year with the problem and those which did have them, have had
firmware updates.

I have read some reviews and can't see why DOF can't pull the problem
back into focus.

The D800 makes you think more about how you take the shot, as its a lot
more defining on ones own neglect.






  #13  
Old September 15th 12, 08:11 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Floyd L. Davidson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,138
Default Nikon D600 a compromise but ok

Rob wrote:
On 15/09/2012 12:06 PM, Rich wrote:

Most cameras today function well enough when they work that anyone can
take a decent image. Low-light capability is very good, focusing (in
most cases is very good). So, the only differentiators are the problems
and the short-comings. $2100 for a 1/2 plastic body when the D300 was
$1700 and all metal, 4 years ago? Counter-balancing this is that it's a
$2100 FF. The D800 and it's horrible focusing problems, a deal-killer
for many a new Canon owner. These are the only things that really make a
difference, not whether a D600 and D7000 have fractionally different high
ISO capability.


Where did you get the horrible focus problems from?? So you own a D800
then.? or just read about them?


I've read about the D800 too!

It's very interesting to read about them, and to then
compare a real camera to what clowns like Rich say.

For a start its a not bad just a few rants and lots of BS you don't have
to use the LHS for the focus, its not a sports action camera. Not all
cameras came with the problem. There have been no cameras released since
mid year with the problem and those which did have them, have had
firmware updates.


In fact though, very few people have ever been able to
factually determine if their camera has the problem!

It requires using a pretty special chart and technique to
get everything just right to even see it. It flat is not
something normal photography will bring about.

I have read some reviews and can't see why DOF can't pull the problem
back into focus.


Exactly! In fact, I did check my cameras to see if I
could see anything that made a difference. Now, that's
not saying I went to the trouble to see if the left side
is less accurate with an f/1.4 aperture than the right
side. I only checked to see if it would affect my
photography.

I can't see any difference in the various high end Nikon
models that I have access to. And one specific reason
is that I am well aware that I will *never ever* take a
shot using the far left side (or right for that matter)
focus point when shooting wide open with an f/1.4 lens.

If the issue was missing focus targets at f/2.8, or for
that matter even at f/1.8, I might be upset. But that
isn't what happens so I'm happy enough.

The D800 makes you think more about how you take the shot, as its a lot
more defining on ones own neglect.


The photographer has to redefine where limits are for
various parameters, simply because the D800 moves them
significantly away from where we've generally thought
our "rules of thumb" put them. But a lot of folks are
misunderstanding that too! Not getting "best results"
doesn't mean results not as good as any other camera, it
just means that using the same technique will restrict
the results to being no better than other cameras. To
get *better* results, better techniques are required
because the camera is indeed that much better.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
  #14  
Old September 16th 12, 02:10 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
PeterN
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,039
Default Nikon D600 a compromise but ok

On 9/14/2012 10:06 PM, Rich wrote:
PeterN wrote in
:

On 9/14/2012 8:05 PM, RichA wrote:
On Sep 14, 3:47 am, (Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:
RichA wrote:
On Sep 13, 3:01 am, Me wrote:
On 13/09/2012 6:19 p.m., Rich wrote: Yes, it has a FF sensor,
24mp. But, you don't get it for $2099 and not
suffer some compromises. 1/2 plastic body, 0.7x viewfinder,
D7000 body ergonomics (Yeesh! I hope it's closer to the D300
body) but for someone who needs FF on the cheap, this is it. The
kit lens, if it's as good as the 16-85DX for $600 should be good
though.

The VF is 100% -

VF magnification is 0.7.

Just like all of Nikon's top of the line FX bodies, the
D3, the D3s, the D3X, the D4. The D800 and now the
D600 too.

The D700 is different, it's 95% and 0.72x magnification.

Other than that you don't know what that means, did you
have a point?

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

Fanboy alert. Never mention anything even seemingly negative.


Exactly when did you give anything a positive review?


Most cameras today function well enough when they work that anyone can
take a decent image. Low-light capability is very good, focusing (in
most cases is very good). So, the only differentiators are the problems
and the short-comings. $2100 for a 1/2 plastic body when the D300 was
$1700 and all metal, 4 years ago? Counter-balancing this is that it's a
$2100 FF. The D800 and it's horrible focusing problems, a deal-killer
for many a new Canon owner. These are the only things that really make a
difference, not whether a D600 and D7000 have fractionally different high
ISO capability.


Plastic is good. Weighs less, and more comfortable to hold.

I am more interested in hearing about the focusing issues with the D800,
as I am torn between that and a D4.

--
Peter
  #15  
Old September 16th 12, 02:12 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
PeterN
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,039
Default Nikon D600 a compromise but ok

On 9/14/2012 10:09 PM, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
PeterN wrote:
On 9/14/2012 9:15 PM, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
PeterN wrote:
On 9/14/2012 8:05 PM, RichA wrote:
On Sep 14, 3:47 am, (Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:
RichA wrote:
On Sep 13, 3:01 am, Me wrote:
On 13/09/2012 6:19 p.m., Rich wrote: Yes, it has a FF sensor, 24mp. But, you don't get it for $2099 and not
suffer some compromises. 1/2 plastic body, 0.7x viewfinder, D7000 body
ergonomics (Yeesh! I hope it's closer to the D300 body) but for someone who
needs FF on the cheap, this is it. The kit lens, if it's as good as the
16-85DX for $600 should be good though.

The VF is 100% -

VF magnification is 0.7.

Just like all of Nikon's top of the line FX bodies, the
D3, the D3s, the D3X, the D4. The D800 and now the
D600 too.

The D700 is different, it's 95% and 0.72x magnification.

Other than that you don't know what that means, did you
have a point?

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

Fanboy alert. Never mention anything even seemingly negative.


Exactly when did you give anything a positive review?

When did he give anything a *valid* review!


I don't believe you actually agree with something I posted. G


I didn't. Can't you read anything right? Your article
is as non-responive as his. Non-sequiturs are not
debating points!


I can relax now. You really didn't agree.

--
Peter
  #16  
Old September 16th 12, 03:12 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Robert Coe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,901
Default Nikon D600 a compromise but ok

On Sat, 15 Sep 2012 13:56:23 +1000, Rob wrote:
: On 15/09/2012 12:06 PM, Rich wrote:
: PeterN wrote in
: :
:
: On 9/14/2012 8:05 PM, RichA wrote:
: On Sep 14, 3:47 am, (Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:
: RichA wrote:
: On Sep 13, 3:01 am, Me wrote:
: On 13/09/2012 6:19 p.m., Rich wrote: Yes, it has a FF sensor,
: 24mp. But, you don't get it for $2099 and not
: suffer some compromises. 1/2 plastic body, 0.7x viewfinder,
: D7000 body ergonomics (Yeesh! I hope it's closer to the D300
: body) but for someone who needs FF on the cheap, this is it. The
: kit lens, if it's as good as the 16-85DX for $600 should be good
: though.
:
: The VF is 100% -
:
: VF magnification is 0.7.
:
: Just like all of Nikon's top of the line FX bodies, the
: D3, the D3s, the D3X, the D4. The D800 and now the
: D600 too.
:
: The D700 is different, it's 95% and 0.72x magnification.
:
: Other than that you don't know what that means, did you
: have a point?
:
: --
: Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
: Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
:
: Fanboy alert. Never mention anything even seemingly negative.
:
:
: Exactly when did you give anything a positive review?
:
:
: Most cameras today function well enough when they work that anyone can
: take a decent image. Low-light capability is very good, focusing (in
: most cases is very good). So, the only differentiators are the problems
: and the short-comings. $2100 for a 1/2 plastic body when the D300 was
: $1700 and all metal, 4 years ago? Counter-balancing this is that it's a
: $2100 FF. The D800 and it's horrible focusing problems, a deal-killer
: for many a new Canon owner. These are the only things that really make a
: difference, not whether a D600 and D7000 have fractionally different high
: ISO capability.
:
:
: Where did you get the horrible focus problems from?? So you own a D800
: then.? or just read about them?
:
: For a start its a not bad just a few rants and lots of BS you don't have
: to use the LHS for the focus, its not a sports action camera. Not all
: cameras came with the problem. There have been no cameras released since
: mid year with the problem and those which did have them, have had
: firmware updates.
:
: I have read some reviews and can't see why DOF can't pull the problem
: back into focus.
:
: The D800 makes you think more about how you take the shot, as its a lot
: more defining on ones own neglect.

I'm having some difficulty parsing that last sentence. Is it a roundabout way
of saying that the D800 is harder to use than the D600?

Bob
  #17  
Old September 16th 12, 03:18 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Rob
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 236
Default Nikon D600 a compromise but ok

On 15/09/2012 5:11 PM, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
Rob wrote:
On 15/09/2012 12:06 PM, Rich wrote:

Most cameras today function well enough when they work that anyone can
take a decent image. Low-light capability is very good, focusing (in
most cases is very good). So, the only differentiators are the problems
and the short-comings. $2100 for a 1/2 plastic body when the D300 was
$1700 and all metal, 4 years ago? Counter-balancing this is that it's a
$2100 FF. The D800 and it's horrible focusing problems, a deal-killer
for many a new Canon owner. These are the only things that really make a
difference, not whether a D600 and D7000 have fractionally different high
ISO capability.


Where did you get the horrible focus problems from?? So you own a D800
then.? or just read about them?


I've read about the D800 too!

It's very interesting to read about them, and to then
compare a real camera to what clowns like Rich say.

For a start its a not bad just a few rants and lots of BS you don't have
to use the LHS for the focus, its not a sports action camera. Not all
cameras came with the problem. There have been no cameras released since
mid year with the problem and those which did have them, have had
firmware updates.


In fact though, very few people have ever been able to
factually determine if their camera has the problem!

It requires using a pretty special chart and technique to
get everything just right to even see it. It flat is not
something normal photography will bring about.

I have read some reviews and can't see why DOF can't pull the problem
back into focus.


Exactly! In fact, I did check my cameras to see if I
could see anything that made a difference. Now, that's
not saying I went to the trouble to see if the left side
is less accurate with an f/1.4 aperture than the right
side. I only checked to see if it would affect my
photography.

I can't see any difference in the various high end Nikon
models that I have access to. And one specific reason
is that I am well aware that I will *never ever* take a
shot using the far left side (or right for that matter)
focus point when shooting wide open with an f/1.4 lens.

If the issue was missing focus targets at f/2.8, or for
that matter even at f/1.8, I might be upset. But that
isn't what happens so I'm happy enough.

The D800 makes you think more about how you take the shot, as its a lot
more defining on ones own neglect.


The photographer has to redefine where limits are for
various parameters, simply because the D800 moves them
significantly away from where we've generally thought
our "rules of thumb" put them. But a lot of folks are
misunderstanding that too! Not getting "best results"
doesn't mean results not as good as any other camera, it
just means that using the same technique will restrict
the results to being no better than other cameras. To
get *better* results, better techniques are required
because the camera is indeed that much better.


Oh BTW I have the 800E
  #18  
Old September 16th 12, 03:24 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Robert Coe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,901
Default Nikon D600 a compromise but ok

On Fri, 14 Sep 2012 21:06:50 -0500, Rich wrote:
: Most cameras today function well enough when they work that anyone can
: take a decent image. Low-light capability is very good, focusing (in
: most cases is very good). So, the only differentiators are the problems
: and the short-comings. $2100 for a 1/2 plastic body when the D300 was
: $1700 and all metal, 4 years ago? Counter-balancing this is that it's a
: $2100 FF. The D800 and it's horrible focusing problems, a deal-killer
: for many a new Canon owner. ...

Why should a Canon owner, new or old, give a rip about the D800's alleged
focusing problems?

Bob
  #19  
Old September 16th 12, 03:30 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Robert Coe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,901
Default Nikon D600 a compromise but ok

On Thu, 13 Sep 2012 16:33:14 -0700 (PDT), RichA wrote:
: On Sep 13, 3:01*am, Me wrote:
: On 13/09/2012 6:19 p.m., Rich wrote: Yes, it has a FF sensor, 24mp. *But, you don't get it for $2099 and not
: suffer some compromises. *1/2 plastic body, 0.7x viewfinder, D7000 body
: ergonomics (Yeesh! I hope it's closer to the D300 body) but for someone who
: needs FF on the cheap, this is it. *The kit lens, if it's as good as the
: 16-85DX for $600 should be good though.
:
: The VF is 100% - and exactly the same spec as the D4/D800.
: It doesn't have the round eyepiece that other FX slrs do, but probably
: not much of an issue as there seem to be plenty of 3rd part accessories
: on ebay etc which will slot in to the eyepiece frame if you feel the need.
:
: It is a bit larger than the D7000, perhaps the same size as a D300.
:
: There's no AF-ON button - that, the different AF module, and the "new
: improved" (arguable) AF mode selector are the main differences from
: D300/700. *Plastic-schmastic. *If it breaks, my insurance will pay for it.
:
:
: Good for those carrying a back-up body, but cold comfort if you are in
: the middle of doing something.
: The two things I hope is doesn't have are the D7000/D800 focus
: problems and hot pixels.

The D7000 and D800 have hot pixels? Where? In the viewing screen? I can't
remember the last time I heard of a serious camera having hot pixels in the
sensor.

Bob
  #20  
Old September 16th 12, 03:41 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Floyd L. Davidson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,138
Default Nikon D600 a compromise but ok

PeterN wrote:
Plastic is good. Weighs less, and more comfortable to hold.


True.

I am more interested in hearing about the focusing issues with the D800,
as I am torn between that and a D4.


That should not really be too hard to decide (unless
what you really want to have is both of them!).

The D4 shines for event photography where higher ISO's
are the norm and for sports photography or photo journalism
where faster operation and frame rates are the norm. It
is also a more rugged camera, hence for field work that
may involve some abuse of the equipment (nature
photography comes to mind), the D4 is better.

The D800 has more pixels. It has better dynamic range
too. Hence if large prints or cropping of images is
important, or if producing the highest quality image
with the least noise is significant, the D800 is better.
Landscapes, fashion, glamour, and portrait work are
examples of where the D800 shines over the D4.

I use both models. If I could only have one it would
have to be the D4, but the fact is that I shoot the D800
probably 2/3rds of the time. But when I need a D4 the
D800 just won't do (event and sports), while if the D800
was not available the D4 will not be quite as good but
will provide very usable results (people pictures,
portraits, street photography, etc).

One other point that I think is significant too... is
that no matter what you have now, waiting to upgrade to
either a D800 or a D4 is an unfortunate loss of time. A
D3S is the only camera that comes close to comparing
with them (specifically with the D4, not the D800), and
either camera over everything else is a massive leap
towards better photography (assuming you do have the
time and talent to make use of such cameras).

Ohh... Unless you typically mount f/1.4 lenses and shoot
focus chart wide open, there isn't a focus problem. If
you do shoot charts, there might be.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
 




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