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Lens advice, please



 
 
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  #41  
Old April 11th 05, 12:29 PM
PWW
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On 4/10/05 6:11 PM, in article ,
"Kate" wrote:


For the hide in the garden I have now bought a camping toilet tent and
have draped the frame with the camouflage net we already have. As it
is free-standing now, I have been able to move it closer to the bird
feeders, but the wretched birds haven`t been back since so I haven`t
been able to see if my images will be better.


It takes a little while for them to get accustomed to a new object near
their feeders. You might not need the camouflage net. They will get use to
almost anything. Plus you need to make sure the netting doesn't flap in the
breeze. As movement like that can scare the birds.

Do you know the trick of putting a small branch or twig within a foot or two
of feet of the feeder. Many birds will fly to and from this branch to go to
and then leave the feeder. Take the pictures when they land and fly off this
branch. This also makes the bird portraits look a lot more natural and not
so obvious that it was shot at a feeder. Plus you can change the branch
every so often for different looks. Put it into the best position for great
bird portraits.

I have started using RAW mode, although it is agonisingly slow through
the buffer. It may be that I have been losing some sharpness by the
way in which I was processing the images, but until I can get some
more shots from this new hide, I cannot tell for sure. There is no
getting away from the fact that a better lens would make a lot of
difference, but if I can improve my technique with the lens I have at
the moment, it should stand me in good stead for the future.


Make sure that incamera settings are set correctly. It could be that your
camera is set for "No Sharpening."

Good lenses are very important.

--
PWW (Paul Wayne Wilson)
Over 1,000 Photographs Online at,
http://PhotoStockFile.com

  #42  
Old April 11th 05, 06:13 PM
Kate
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"PWW" wrote in message
...
On 4/10/05 6:11 PM, in article
,
"Kate" wrote:


For the hide in the garden I have now bought a camping toilet tent
and
have draped the frame with the camouflage net we already have. As
it
is free-standing now, I have been able to move it closer to the
bird
feeders, but the wretched birds haven`t been back since so I
haven`t
been able to see if my images will be better.


It takes a little while for them to get accustomed to a new object
near
their feeders. You might not need the camouflage net. They will get
use to
almost anything. Plus you need to make sure the netting doesn't flap
in the
breeze. As movement like that can scare the birds.

Do you know the trick of putting a small branch or twig within a
foot or two
of feet of the feeder. Many birds will fly to and from this branch
to go to
and then leave the feeder. Take the pictures when they land and fly
off this
branch. This also makes the bird portraits look a lot more natural
and not
so obvious that it was shot at a feeder. Plus you can change the
branch
every so often for different looks. Put it into the best position
for great
bird portraits.

I have started using RAW mode, although it is agonisingly slow
through
the buffer. It may be that I have been losing some sharpness by
the
way in which I was processing the images, but until I can get some
more shots from this new hide, I cannot tell for sure. There is no
getting away from the fact that a better lens would make a lot of
difference, but if I can improve my technique with the lens I have
at
the moment, it should stand me in good stead for the future.


Make sure that incamera settings are set correctly. It could be that
your
camera is set for "No Sharpening."

Good lenses are very important.

--
PWW (Paul Wayne Wilson)
Over 1,000 Photographs Online at,
http://PhotoStockFile.com


The hide has been in the garden for several weeks, and it is only
recently that we have built a portable one. Previously it had been
fixed to the fence, but was too far away from the feeders for sharp
pictures. I have pinned the camouflage net down with tent pegs to
stop it flapping. The idea of using a twig for the birds to perch on
prior to visiting the feeders is a good one. However, what seems to
happen is that the birds fly into the garden from the trees at the
back and straight on to the feeder perches, then back the way they
came.

Today I was able to get some better shots of a greenfinch, and some
even better ones of a robin. The greenfinch was about 10 feet away
but the robin only about 6 ft. It does seem as though at 6ft, objects
are _much_ sharper, but as the distance increases, sharpness drops
off. This is all at 300mm BTW. The in-camera sharpness setting was
plus 1, so I have pushed it up to plus 2 and hope noise isn`t
increased.

My tripod, although a heavy one, _is_ a bit unstable, particularly as
it is standing on loose gravel, and I did take two identical shots,
one with IS enabled and one without, both with the camera on the
tripod. The light was good and I was able to shoot at 1/200th f/8.
There was very little difference, with maybe just a little more
sharpness with IS turned on. I did read the manual grin regarding
turning IS off if the camera is tripod-mounted, but surely wobbly is
wobbly, whether hand-generated or tripod-generated. I haven`t yet
tried with the camera resting on a solid object, but will do so
shortly. I expect when I go out in the field, I shall have to use a
monopod, as carrying a tripod as well as camera and lens(es) will be
difficult, as will hand-holding the camera for any length of time
because of the arthritis in my hands.

Regarding shutter speed and f stops, I have read that, as birds move
so quickly, even when feeding, anything less than 1/160th will not do.
Elsewhere I also read that the "sweet spot" for sharpness is f8.
Also, that to increase DOF, an f stop of between 11 and 13 is
necessary. I do try to shoot at above 1/160th and at around f8, but
sharpness always seems to come down to how far away I am from the -
admittedly - small subject. As I mentioned above, 6ft seems ideal
with this lens at maximum zoom.

Roger : does the minimum focussing distance of the 300mm prime remain
the same, then, whether a TC is attached or not, please? As I always
seem to be shooting at 300mm, it does seem rather pointless to have a
zoom after all. Also, will AF still work with this lens and a 1.4x TC
attached to a Canon EOS 300D do you know?

My husband is getting a bit grumpy with me because I want a new lens,
a new tripod, a new this, a new that, and I`ve only had this camera
and lens since Christmas!

Thank you for your help.
Kate


  #43  
Old April 12th 05, 07:11 AM
Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark)
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Kate wrote:


The in-camera sharpness setting was
plus 1, so I have pushed it up to plus 2 and hope noise isn`t
increased.


I suggest no in camera sharpening. Do it post processing where
you have more control.

My tripod, although a heavy one, _is_ a bit unstable, particularly as
it is standing on loose gravel,


Hang a bucket from the tripod and fill it with rocks, dirt or
something else heavy. That will improve stability.

I expect when I go out in the field, I shall have to use a
monopod, as carrying a tripod as well as camera and lens(es) will be
difficult, as will hand-holding the camera for any length of time
because of the arthritis in my hands.


That is an advantage of carbon fiber tripods as they are much
lighter as well as sturdier and dampen vibrations.

Regarding shutter speed and f stops, I have read that, as birds move
so quickly, even when feeding, anything less than 1/160th will not do.
Elsewhere I also read that the "sweet spot" for sharpness is f8.
Also, that to increase DOF, an f stop of between 11 and 13 is
necessary. I do try to shoot at above 1/160th and at around f8, but
sharpness always seems to come down to how far away I am from the -
admittedly - small subject. As I mentioned above, 6ft seems ideal
with this lens at maximum zoom.


While the sweet spot for sharpness for many lenses is f/8, the telephoto
pro primes by canon, nikon and others often are as sharp wide open as
at f/8. For Canon, this is the L series lenses (which technically does
not mean pro, but means low dispersion glass is used in a more
exotic design which tends to give better image quality).

My experience with birds, unless they are completely still, is that
shutter speed is paramount. The percentage of soft images I get goes up
rapidly as shutter speed drops below 1/500 second. Try imaging at f/5.6
or f/4 (if you can). Boost ISO until you get 1/500 second or faster.
For movement (and small birds move really fast, 1/1500 or faster is needed.

Second, change the autofocus sensors to use only one sensor, and
keep that sensor on the bird's eye(s).

A sharp bird photo will usually show feather detail, and that is
quite small. A sharp lens and fast shutter is critical to freezing
any movement. Check the shutter speeds on my website:
http://www.clarkvision.com/galleries/gallery.bird

Last week in Australia, I found a fair number of Cockatoo images are
not sharp due to movement; I was imaging in shade and not watching
my shutter speeds. Now I find I was only at 1/200 to 1/400 second.
I should have boosted the ISO (I was at 100).

Roger : does the minimum focussing distance of the 300mm prime remain
the same, then, whether a TC is attached or not, please? As I always
seem to be shooting at 300mm, it does seem rather pointless to have a
zoom after all. Also, will AF still work with this lens and a 1.4x TC
attached to a Canon EOS 300D do you know?


I do believe the minimum distance is the same (seemed like it was last
week when I was in Australia). I do not have it with me, but can check
it in a couple of days. The 300D, like all canon consumer SLR bodies,
needs f/5.6 or faster to autofocus well (some 3rd party TCs will still
autofocus at f/8, but often the camera does not do well, hunting and missing
focus). I use Kenko pro 300 TCs which are very sharp and a little cheaper
than the canon TCs. So the 300 f/4 will autofocus with a 1.4x TC giving
f/5.6 at 420 mm.

My husband is getting a bit grumpy with me because I want a new lens,
a new tripod, a new this, a new that, and I`ve only had this camera
and lens since Christmas!


Good luck!

Roger
  #44  
Old April 12th 05, 11:21 PM
Kate
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"Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark)"
wrote in message ...

I suggest no in camera sharpening. Do it post processing where
you have more control.


I`ll give it a try, or go back to the default of plus 1.

Hang a bucket from the tripod and fill it with rocks, dirt or
something else heavy. That will improve stability.


I`ll try that, too, although it wouldn`t be very practical away from
the garden!

That is an advantage of carbon fiber tripods as they are much
lighter as well as sturdier and dampen vibrations.


I would like a carbon fibre monopod, but don`t think my husband would
spring for a tripod, unfortunately.

My experience with birds, unless they are completely still, is that
shutter speed is paramount. The percentage of soft images I get
goes up rapidly as shutter speed drops below 1/500 second. Try
imaging at f/5.6 or f/4 (if you can). Boost ISO until you get 1/500
second or faster. For movement (and small birds move really fast,
1/1500 or faster is needed.


I try to increase shutter speed as much as possible, although I do
find at f/5.6, say, the DOF is so shallow that the beak of the bird
will be sharp, but the feet won`t, or vice versa. I have tried
increasing ISO but don`t like all the noise that appears. When the
background is blurry it shows. I have tried some demo versions of
plug-ins and stand-alone programs that remove noise, but find they can
make things "blocky".

Second, change the autofocus sensors to use only one sensor, and
keep that sensor on the bird's eye(s).


I have already selected the centre spot for autofocus - did that very
soon after getting the camera - and focus on the bird`s head. If
the bird is sideways on, everything is OK, but face on and the feet
are out of focus (see above).

A sharp bird photo will usually show feather detail, and that is
quite small. A sharp lens and fast shutter is critical to freezing
any movement. Check the shutter speeds on my website:
http://www.clarkvision.com/galleries/gallery.bird


I have managed to get some images which show the feather detail, even
the little wispy bits, but that has been when I was only 6 ft away.

The 300D, like all canon consumer SLR bodies,
needs f/5.6 or faster to autofocus well (some 3rd party TCs will
still autofocus at f/8, but often the camera does not do well,
hunting and missing focus).


If I find that autofocus is having difficulties, I try to find another
object the same distance away, focus on that and then re-focus on the
original subject and the camera seems to find it more easily. Doesn`t
always work though, because sometimes the subject has flown away by
the time I am ready!

My husband is getting a bit grumpy with me because I want a new
lens, a new tripod, a new this, a new that, and I`ve only had this
camera and lens since Christmas!


Good luck!


I`m working on it...grin

Kate





  #45  
Old April 12th 05, 11:51 PM
Kate
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"Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark)"
wrote in message ...
A sharp bird photo will usually show feather detail, and that is
quite small. A sharp lens and fast shutter is critical to freezing
any movement. Check the shutter speeds on my website:
http://www.clarkvision.com/galleries/gallery.bird

Just had a look at your photos. They are quite beautiful. I did
notice, though, that they were taken with longer telephotos than the
300mm that I aspire to. I know you said that you took only the 300mm
with TCs on your latest trip to Australia, so look forward to seeing
the results. Would you post on this thread when they are ready to
view, please, Roger?

Many thanks
Kate


  #46  
Old April 13th 05, 01:34 AM
Roger Whitehead
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In article , Kate wrote:
Hang a bucket from the tripod and fill it with rocks, dirt or
something else heavy. That will improve stability.


I`ll try that, too, although it wouldn`t be very practical away from
the garden!


If you hang your camera bag, or similar, from the tripod that'll help
stabilise it.

Roger

  #47  
Old April 18th 05, 04:34 AM
Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark)
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Kate wrote:
"Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark)"
wrote in message ...

A sharp bird photo will usually show feather detail, and that is
quite small. A sharp lens and fast shutter is critical to freezing
any movement. Check the shutter speeds on my website:
http://www.clarkvision.com/galleries/gallery.bird


Just had a look at your photos. They are quite beautiful. I did
notice, though, that they were taken with longer telephotos than the
300mm that I aspire to. I know you said that you took only the 300mm
with TCs on your latest trip to Australia, so look forward to seeing
the results. Would you post on this thread when they are ready to
view, please, Roger?


Kate,
I have gotten a first peak at my trip photos. I did process one
image and included full resolution sections so you can see the
sharpness. It is an image of a Rainbow Lorikeet (parrot)
with the 300 mm f/4 L IS + 1.4x TC (Kenko pro 300) on
a tripod with IS on:

http://www.clarkvision.com/galleries...962.b-700.html

There are edges in the image where intensities change by a factor
of 10 within 2 pixels and where adjacent pixels have factors
of 3 to 4 change in intensity (an indicator of very good
sharpness).

Roger
  #48  
Old April 18th 05, 06:56 AM
Ken Ellis
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On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:08:30 -0600, "Roger N. Clark (change username
to rnclark)" wrote:

Kate wrote:

This will be my third year photographing odonata, but the first using
a digital SLR with zoom. I have been using a Coolpix 4500 which is
very good for close-ups, but it was because I had to stalk them in
order to get close that I decided to get a camera to which I could
attach a long lens. I did get lucky several times - one dragonfly
even landed on my knee so I got some good `portrait` shots, and a pair
of Anax Imperators `in cop` were so engrossed I could have shoved the
lens up the male`s nose, if it had one! I have not taken any shots of
dragonflies in flight, or even attempted it, although I might try this
year. I do get somewhat despondent if I am out for hours and don`t
get anything, but the sense of achievement when I do is very
satisfying. That is why I prefer to take my photos in the wild. If I
went to an aviary or butterfly house, or photographed captive
dragonflies, I wouldn`t get that feeling of accomplishment.

I have only just started photographing birds, and we do have feeders
in the garden, but the species of birds visiting is quite limited. I
intend to get out and about to find more species, so a long lens will
be important unless I am very lucky indeed.

I have never had such an expensive hobby (obsession?) before, so I
have to think very hard before buying extra equipment. I can
understand the need to always want something better or different to
get that elusive shot. However, I have always said that in order to
do the job properly, you have to have the right tools, otherwise you
usually end up bodging it, which is what I feel I am doing at the
moment.

I have been on a very steep learning curve for the past few weeks and
all the responses to my original query have given me plenty to think
about. Improving my technique should be my first priority, I suspect,
but I still feel that better glass will give me sharper shots,
regardless of which length I eventually decide to go for. Maybe then,
if I do have to crop, there won`t be so many imperfections to
exaggerate by having to sharpen so much.

with thanks and best wishes to all
Kate


Hi Kate. I like to do bugs and birds. I have previously used a sony
f707 for bugs because of the really short focus distance. On my
20d i have a 75x300 is ef lens. It doesn't make it - particularly
with birds - they are a bit more sentient. The people i see getting
nice macros use a 300 and up with generally a 1.4 teleconverter.
The faster the lens, the better. Ususally they manually focus because
the auto takes too long and isn't as consistent.. Sooo..more than 300
and fast...better than f4 if you can afford it . I suspect a tripod
when possible is the way yo go. Alot of patience..and perhaps
bait. I agree with your conclusion on glass.

If you can kill a particular bug...a really great technique is to pin
it down and take 6 or 20 shots with varying focus lengths. Then
composit them to get really super dof. That's part of it right there.

Good luck and if in your search you have any suggestions, would
be glad to hear them.

rgds
Ken





  #49  
Old April 20th 05, 06:32 AM
Ken Ellis
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On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 12:48:14 +0100, "Kate"
wrote:


"Ken Ellis" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:08:30 -0600, "Roger N. Clark (change username
to rnclark)" wrote:

Hi Kate. I like to do bugs and birds. I have previously used a sony
f707 for bugs because of the really short focus distance. On my
20d i have a 75x300 is ef lens. It doesn't make it - particularly
with birds - they are a bit more sentient. The people i see getting
nice macros use a 300 and up with generally a 1.4 teleconverter.
The faster the lens, the better. Ususally they manually focus
because
the auto takes too long and isn't as consistent.. Sooo..more than
300
and fast...better than f4 if you can afford it . I suspect a tripod
when possible is the way yo go. Alot of patience..and perhaps
bait. I agree with your conclusion on glass.

If you can kill a particular bug...a really great technique is to
pin
it down and take 6 or 20 shots with varying focus lengths. Then
composit them to get really super dof. That's part of it right
there.

Good luck and if in your search you have any suggestions, would
be glad to hear them.

rgds
Ken


Firstly, to Roger : thank you for letting me see the images of the
lorikeet. They look super so I think that the 300mm L prime with TC
could be the way for me to go, although I shall probably keep the
75-300 IS USM for use at the lower end, where it is supposed to be
sharper. Thank you for all your help.

Ken : last year I was using a Nikon Coolpix 4500 for the dragonflies
and got some good, sharp images - whenever I could get close enough.
For macro work, the Nikon is very good, I think, and it will focus at
2cm from the subject. I shall probably only use it for that now. I
caught a hovering Southern Hawker dragonfly last year (fastest hand in
the west - of England!) and held it in the prescribed manner in one
hand, while taking shots with the Coolpix with the other. I couldn`t
have done that with the Canon. Nor could I haved killed it; also, most
dragonflies lose their colours very rapidly after death. One of the
difficulties I have is the unreliability of the English summer
weather, but, although I would not say that I am a particularly
patient person, I am very tenacious and won`t give up until I`ve got
the shot I want. I am hoping that with a telephoto I won`t have to
wait so long...

best wishes
Kate


Sounds like you'll be happy with a good telephoto of sufficient
length. Alas...i think this year will see me using the f707 yet
againt (nice color though). Actually...forgive me.. i like
d-flys too much to kill them. Thinking more of beetles and
bees. The great thing about a good tele will be you probably
can take your time and focus really nice..and then i know
one of the first things i would like to try would be a composit
foto and try to amplify the dof. Like i said..i've seen it done
by a fellow out in washington with pinned bees. Fab shots.

Well good luck, let us know what lens works for you. Dump
a pic or two to alt.binaries.photos.original if you've no site
and would like to share them.

rgds - Ta
Ken




















 




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