Photoshop CC problem(s)

On Mon, 18 Jan 2021 17:11:38 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On Jan 18, 2021, Bill W wrote
(in ternal-september.org):

On Jan 18, 2021, Savageduck wrote
(in iganews.com):

On Jan 18, 2021, Alfred Molon wrote
(in s.net):

In ,
says...

Do you mean PS opens your RAW files without issue once they have been
processed by ACR?

Correct.

That is normal function.

Indeed. But my point simply is that these Wintel machines I'm
using perform reasonably well (Eric was complaining about Wintel
PCs).

...and so he should. He has related multiple Wintel issues over the years. ;-)

Yeah, me too, but I do admit that there might be some blame pointing at me. I
spent another couple of hours today with MS support, and they will be calling
back tomorrow. This is on the PC that I had finally fixed once and for all.
It’s at least 5 years now that Windows updates have occasionally wiped out
the boot process on this PC. This does help me understand the attraction of
the whole Apple system. No problems on my iPad or on the MacBook.
Coincidentally, I just use them, instead of constantly finding “better�
ways to do things, and to tweak them. Isn’t that odd?

Not odd at all. I like the idea of having a computer system that just works without the need for geekish tinkering.

And so do I. Virtually all of my problems can be traced back to
updates. Not just Microsofts but everyone who has written software I
have on my computer.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 12:28:47 +1300, Eric Stevens
wrote:

On Sun, 17 Jan 2021 22:46:55 -0600, Bill W
wrote:

On Jan 17, 2021, Eric Stevens wrote
(in ):

On Sat, 16 Jan 2021 16:12:42 -0600,
wrote:

Did the OP say what CPU and how much RAM he had? A year ago I replaced
my 15 year old AMD and Intel boxes with an AMD Ryzen 6 core CPU and
16 GB RAM motherboard. Things became much better. They became a lot
better, in general, when my bro upgraded my old GPU to later model. BTW,
I'm not a gamer. I only spent $500 including new power supply and a new
SATA drive. Boot time could be better but I have two SSD slots available.
My Dell laptop with SSD will boot in 10 seconds

I have an Asus X99-AII motherboard with an i&-6800 processor. I can't
remember the chipset I used but it was just new at the time. 32 GB of
RAM. NVidia GeForce GTX 1070. 476 GB SSD plus 1.79TB spinner. It
generally works like a charm.

Some years ago my old boxes worked very well for photo editing. Even large
files. Over the past few years things became slower and slower.
I upgraded(?) Win 7 x64 to Win 10. Didn't help at all. My old Intel had 4 GB
RAM and my old AMD had 6 GB and could tell little difference in the good
old days.

Later on 4GB was unbearable and 6GB was somewhat usable.
I would have to wait a very long time to view the 'properties' of a jpg.
I've wondered if having 5TB of harddrives online would slow things down
but never got around to checking it.

I have no idea what the problem was and don't really care anymore.
Nothing beats have a new car in the driveway.g

How much free space is left on the SSD? And did you manually change the page
file size in Windows settings? Also, are you sometimes using Bridge, and
other times using PS to open raw files? That might explains some of the
strange things you’ve said. And we do have very similar specs on our
PC’s.

I think I have found the explanation. I think that when I first
installed Photoshop I must have set to OFF for "PreferencesFile
HandlingFile CompatabilityPrefer Adobe Camera Raw for supported Raw
Files". So Adobe has been reading raw files without offering me the
editing part of ACR. There may be several reasons for this. Under the
heading "Skipping the Camera Raw Window altogether", Scott Kelby in
his Photoshop book wrote"
"If you have already applied a set of tweaks to a RAW photo, you
probably don't need the Camera Raw editing window opening
every time you open the file."
He goes on to describe one way to do it:
"So just press and hold the Shift key when you double on the raw
file in Mini Bridge, and the image will open in Photoshop, with the
last set of edits already applied, skipping the Camera Raw window
altogether"

You will find this listed in
https://helpx.adobe.com/nz/photoshop...shortcuts.html
under the heading of "Open selected images from Bridge bypassing
Camera Raw dialog box".

Also, as https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_2f77Ugdqg and other videos
demonstrate it is also possible to set this in the Preferences window.

I am now hazy as to why at the time I set it that way but clearly I
did and it has been carried forward ever since.

What concerned me about this most recently was, that not having used
Photoshop for several weeks, my most recent attempts found it to be
both very slow and launching in the 'Camera Raw dialog box'. I
associated the two changes.

In fact, I like it opening in ACR and I am interested to note that the
Preferences setting now seems to turn it off. I haven't yet tried the
Shift key when opening.

OOPS! The Preferences setting now no longer seems to turn it off.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On Mon, 18 Jan 2021 16:25:12 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On Jan 18, 2021, Eric Stevens wrote
(in ):

On Mon, 18 Jan 2021 09:46:18 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On Jan 18, 2021, Eric Stevens wrote
(in ):

On Sat, 16 Jan 2021 03:12:01 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On Jan 16, 2021, Eric Stevens wrote
(in ):

On Fri, 15 Jan 2021 17:21:01 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

But that is only part of the problem. Why does PS insist on starting
raw files in ACR, even when I have all the options switched off?

PS cannot open RAW files on its own. PS is assisted in that task by ACR, or ACR buried in LRc.

Why does it then run so slowly?

If you are somehow trying to force feed NEF files to PS without first having them digested by ACR or LR, PS will choke.

Why are the sliders not working?

I think you are experiencing pilot error.

Do you really imagine that after all these years I do not know how to
use the editing sliders in ACR?

What is the difference between loading an image in PS and ditto in LR?

PS does not run ACR natively, LR is built with ACR as its native processing engine.

PS has been unusable since before Christmas.

I believe it is your PS that has been unusable for you. I sugest that you try to work your NEF files via round trip from LR to PS and back. Then tell us whether or not PS is still not working for you.

I don't know how to make this more clear but PS exhibits the same
problems irrespective of whether I try to load images from PS, open
with, drag and drop, and Process In from LR.

At the moment I am pondering the multitude of warnings to the effect
that "ESENT 642 - Video.UI (11500,D,2)
{2147430D-0838-490D-93CB-91829C2C9DEF}: The database format feature
version 9080 (0x2378) could not be used due to the current database
format 1568.20.0, controlled by the parameter 0x410022D8 (8920 |
JET_efvAllowHigherPersistedFormat" and similar. I do know that my
problem is associated with a high error reporting load. Quite what, if
anything, this might have to do with Intel TBMT I do not know but the
two seemed to be tied together in some fashion.

Whatever the particular (peculiar) PS issue that you are experiencing is, it is unique to your setup, and usage. It seems that none of us here have the same problem, nor are any of us able to replicate your problem.
I beg to differ. Apart from the fact that neither of us yet know what
the problem actually is, in my searches of Google I have found many
people who over the years have had troubles with PS while LR runs
smoothly.

Well, OK then.


As for you ever being able to process/edit an NEF, or any other RAW file with PS without the intervention of ACR, that is not possible.

Of course not. I have never made that claim. Obviously there has to
be a raw convertor, but I have never seen the ACR image processing
sliders. Why that should be I do not know but I would rather you
didn't imply I've been somehow just not seeing them for all the years
I have been using Photoshop.

How I read your earlier description was that you somehow managed to open an NEF without initiating ACR. Now I understand that your dropping/opening an NEF with PS does initiate ACR(plugin) for demosaicing/processing prior to the file being opened in PS for further editing.

Well, obviously. Otherwise I would never have been able to process
them in Photoshop.

Directly opening a RAW file is beyond the capability of PS. ACR is needed. Drop a RAW file into PS and it will open ACR, a PS plugin, and depending on what options you used you can return to ACR from the filters menu to refine the process.
Irrespective of what you may believe, I have never previously dropped
into the ACR editing window when loading images in photoshop.

OK! I believe we might have been talking at cross purposes. There are of course three ways to use ACR. As a plugin for PS, as the processing engine of LR, via Adobe Bridge.

Your continuing refusal to believe me has not helped.

It wasn’t a matter of not believing you, I understood that you were experiencing a very real, and frustrating problem. For me it was a case of finding your problem difficult to fully comprehend as you detailed it. Especially since I could not find a logical reason for it in my macOS Adobe mind.

My Windows ignorance probably clouded my thinking on this.



At this point I can’t see what any of us could say, or do to explain, or fix your unique PS problem.

It would help if you were familiar with Windows.

I haven't used Windows since I retired 12 years ago, and my personal computing is Windows free. So from that position I can offer no advice on anything regarding Windows.


I have just read a suggestion that it may be my Acronis backup/etc
software which might be at the root of my problem. Lets see, but I
expect it to fight me.

And it was the Acronis, as I have now detailed elsewhere. And I have
also found the explanation for the ACR conundrum.

Well there always was an Adobe installation warning requiring AV and other third party system software to be turned off/disabled when installing PS. For macOS anyway.

It was nothing to do with installation. Photoshop clearly does
something which Acronis interprets as a bad actor trying to render
files incomprehensible. So Acronis steps in and stops and reverses
whatever PS is trying to do. So its an all in wrestling match between
them.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On Mon, 18 Jan 2021 16:31:23 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On Jan 18, 2021, Eric Stevens wrote
(in ):

On Mon, 18 Jan 2021 03:49:20 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On Jan 18, 2021, Eric Stevens wrote
(in ):

On Sat, 16 Jan 2021 22:00:34 +0000, Melanie van Buren
wrote:

On 16/01/2021 21:31, Savageduck wrote:
On Jan 16, 2021, Melanie van Buren wrote
(in article ):

This gearhead masturbation topic generated 66 replies. That's an order
of magnitude more than it would generate on a dedicated Adobe forum.
Meanwhile eff all response all week on topics on the actual subject of,
duh, photography.

This thread relates to Eric, a long time subscriber to this NG having a problem with Photoshop. If you hadn’t been paying attention you should be aware that Photoshop is an editing tool that most serious photographers, pro & amateur use as a fundamental part of their photography workflow.

As for photography, from time to time some of us actually post images, and sometimes we might get a comment or two.

*yawn* So what? I've said what I wanted to say and am sold on not
appeals to history and appeals to authority and general willy waving.
Any berk can obsess boys toys and there's eff all discussion about art
and photography which interests me more although, apparantly, none of
you lot. Maybe cuz you're **** at it.

Myself I can but don't use Photoshop. It's standard practice in my
industry not to alter photos apart from cropping.

This photograph has been cropped.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cyn4s5sjkm...99-br.jpg?dl=0
Does it meet your standards?

That tree is not wearing black stockings and stilettos, so other than having been cropped it misses her minimum standard.

I think we covered most of the other issues to be found in that image when you first posted it years ago. ;-)

You seem at the moment to be trying to be particularly unhelpful.
That's not your usual style.

I didn’t want to revisit the comments I made when you first shared that particular image, because that is history. Personally I found the image problematic, mainly due to what seemed like over sharpening, and noise. If I remember correctly, also something to do with shadow recovery.

Which is rather like someone criticising Shakespear for type setting
and book binding faults.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

...and so he should. He has related multiple Wintel issues over the
years. ;-)

Yeah, me too, but I do admit that there might be some blame pointing at
me. I
spent another couple of hours today with MS support, and they will be
calling
back tomorrow. This is on the PC that I had finally fixed once and for all.
It¹s at least 5 years now that Windows updates have occasionally wiped out
the boot process on this PC. This does help me understand the attraction of
the whole Apple system. No problems on my iPad or on the MacBook.
Coincidentally, I just use them, instead of constantly finding ³better²
ways to do things, and to tweak them. Isn¹t that odd?

Not odd at all. I like the idea of having a computer system that just works
without the need for geekish tinkering.

And so do I. Virtually all of my problems can be traced back to
updates. Not just Microsofts but everyone who has written software I
have on my computer.

except that just about everyone else who applied the same updates did
not have anywhere near the amount of problems.

On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 01:13:35 +0000, Melanie van Buren
wrote:

As for you photoshop problems:

I've been around tech for years and gearhead talk or offering free tech
support beyond an occasional minimum doesn't interest me one little bit.
Been there, done that. From experience: A.) If you cannot solve a
problem in the first 10 minutes in all likelyhood you never will. B.)
Most problems are caused by user error. I would also add C.) Most
general populations perform at the average hence 99% of the chat in this
topic is noise as random levers are pulled. This is often caused by D.)
Not having the correct understanding or information at stage one. Which
brings us to step E.) Wipe and reinstall. It's not ideal and nobody
learns anything and it covers up flawed products but solves a lot of
problems. Just don't do it again...

I am persistent. I have solved my problems (I think) not within 10
minutes but after several days. If somebody's problem doesn't interest
you and you can't help, then just ignore it. Don't let it worry you.
But it worried hell out of me. I was wanting to try something new and
the damned software wouldn't work!

Don't let Savage duck worry you either. He is a technical
perfectionist but hardly has an artistic bone in his body. :-)
Did you follow up the link to the tree that I gave you?
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On Jan 18, 2021, nospam wrote
(in ) :

In article
l-september.org, Bill
W wrote:

Indeed. But my point simply is that these Wintel machines I'm
using perform reasonably well (Eric was complaining about Wintel
PCs).

...and so he should. He has related multiple Wintel issues over the years.
;-)

Yeah, me too, but I do admit that there might be some blame pointing at me.
I
spent another couple of hours today with MS support, and they will be
calling
back tomorrow. This is on the PC that I had finally fixed once and for all.
It¹s at least 5 years now that Windows updates have occasionally wiped out
the boot process on this PC. This does help me understand the attraction of
the whole Apple system. No problems on my iPad or on the MacBook.
Coincidentally, I just use them, instead of constantly finding ³better²
ways to do things, and to tweak them. Isn¹t that odd?

not to those who use them.

but if you do want to tweak them, there are plenty of ways to do it,
more, actually, than on windows.

Yes, I did stumble across those “secret" areas... I think maybe I’ll just
stay out. I think sometimes about installing Windows on an external drive,
but then I think, “why�? I still haven’t found one thing I can’t do
with Mac apps.

In article
l-september.org, Bill
W wrote:

This does help me understand the attraction of
the whole Apple system. No problems on my iPad or on the MacBook.
Coincidentally, I just use them, instead of constantly finding 3better2
ways to do things, and to tweak them. Isn1t that odd?

not to those who use them.

but if you do want to tweak them, there are plenty of ways to do it,
more, actually, than on windows.

Yes, I did stumble across those ³secret" areas... I think maybe I¹ll just
stay out.

i was thinking more of various third party apps than 'secret areas'.

I think sometimes about installing Windows on an external drive,
but then I think, ³why²? I still haven¹t found one thing I can¹t do
with Mac apps.

how about being able to misconfigure it so much that photoshop takes 2
hours to open a photo...

On Jan 18, 2021, Eric Stevens wrote
(in ):

On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 12:28:47 +1300, Eric Stevens
wrote:

On Sun, 17 Jan 2021 22:46:55 -0600, Bill
wrote:

On Jan 17, 2021, Eric Stevens wrote
(in ):

On Sat, 16 Jan 2021 16:12:42 -0600,
wrote:

Did the OP say what CPU and how much RAM he had? A year ago I replaced
my 15 year old AMD and Intel boxes with an AMD Ryzen 6 core CPU and
16 GB RAM motherboard. Things became much better. They became a lot
better, in general, when my bro upgraded my old GPU to later model. BTW,
I'm not a gamer. I only spent $500 including new power supply and a new
SATA drive. Boot time could be better but I have two SSD slots available.
My Dell laptop with SSD will boot in 10 seconds

I have an Asus X99-AII motherboard with an i&-6800 processor. I can't
remember the chipset I used but it was just new at the time. 32 GB of
RAM. NVidia GeForce GTX 1070. 476 GB SSD plus 1.79TB spinner. It
generally works like a charm.

Some years ago my old boxes worked very well for photo editing. Even
large
files. Over the past few years things became slower and slower.
I upgraded(?) Win 7 x64 to Win 10. Didn't help at all. My old Intel had
4 GB
RAM and my old AMD had 6 GB and could tell little difference in the good
old days.

Later on 4GB was unbearable and 6GB was somewhat usable.
I would have to wait a very long time to view the 'properties' of a jpg.
I've wondered if having 5TB of harddrives online would slow things down
but never got around to checking it.

I have no idea what the problem was and don't really care anymore.
Nothing beats have a new car in the driveway.g

How much free space is left on the SSD? And did you manually change the
page
file size in Windows settings? Also, are you sometimes using Bridge, and
other times using PS to open raw files? That might explains some of the
strange things you’ve said. And we do have very similar specs on our
PC’s.

I think I have found the explanation. I think that when I first
installed Photoshop I must have set to OFF for "PreferencesFile
HandlingFile CompatabilityPrefer Adobe Camera Raw for supported Raw
Files". So Adobe has been reading raw files without offering me the
editing part of ACR. There may be several reasons for this. Under the
heading "Skipping the Camera Raw Window altogether", Scott Kelby in
his Photoshop book wrote"
"If you have already applied a set of tweaks to a RAW photo, you
probably don't need the Camera Raw editing window opening
every time you open the file."
He goes on to describe one way to do it:
"So just press and hold the Shift key when you double on the raw
file in Mini Bridge, and the image will open in Photoshop, with the
last set of edits already applied, skipping the Camera Raw window
altogether"

You will find this listed in
https://helpx.adobe.com/nz/photoshop...shortcuts.html
under the heading of "Open selected images from Bridge bypassing
Camera Raw dialog box".

Also, as https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_2f77Ugdqg and other videos
demonstrate it is also possible to set this in the Preferences window.

I am now hazy as to why at the time I set it that way but clearly I
did and it has been carried forward ever since.

What concerned me about this most recently was, that not having used
Photoshop for several weeks, my most recent attempts found it to be
both very slow and launching in the 'Camera Raw dialog box'. I
associated the two changes.

In fact, I like it opening in ACR and I am interested to note that the
Preferences setting now seems to turn it off. I haven't yet tried the
Shift key when opening.

OOPS! The Preferences setting now no longer seems to turn it off.

I still think that’s a system setting. You leave it checked if you want raw
files associated with PS/ACR. But either way, what happens when you simply
double click a raw file in Windows explorer both with it checked and with it
unchecked? And are you aware of the vertical menu bar along the upper right
in ACR? If you don’t have edit selected (I believe the top entry), you
might not get the sliders that you say are missing.

On Jan 18, 2021, Eric Stevens wrote
(in ):

On Mon, 18 Jan 2021 16:25:12 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On Jan 18, 2021, Eric Stevens wrote
(in ):

On Mon, 18 Jan 2021 09:46:18 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On Jan 18, 2021, Eric Stevens wrote
(in ):

On Sat, 16 Jan 2021 03:12:01 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On Jan 16, 2021, Eric Stevens wrote
(in ):

On Fri, 15 Jan 2021 17:21:01 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

But that is only part of the problem. Why does PS insist on starting
raw files in ACR, even when I have all the options switched off?

PS cannot open RAW files on its own. PS is assisted in that task by
ACR, or ACR buried in LRc.

Why does it then run so slowly?

If you are somehow trying to force feed NEF files to PS without first
having them digested by ACR or LR, PS will choke.

Why are the sliders not working?

I think you are experiencing pilot error.

Do you really imagine that after all these years I do not know how to
use the editing sliders in ACR?

What is the difference between loading an image in PS and ditto in
LR?

PS does not run ACR natively, LR is built with ACR as its native
processing engine.

PS has been unusable since before Christmas.

I believe it is your PS that has been unusable for you. I sugest that
you try to work your NEF files via round trip from LR to PS and back.
Then tell us whether or not PS is still not working for you.

I don't know how to make this more clear but PS exhibits the same
problems irrespective of whether I try to load images from PS, open
with, drag and drop, and Process In from LR.

At the moment I am pondering the multitude of warnings to the effect
that "ESENT 642 - Video.UI (11500,D,2)
{2147430D-0838-490D-93CB-91829C2C9DEF}: The database format feature
version 9080 (0x2378) could not be used due to the current database
format 1568.20.0, controlled by the parameter 0x410022D8 (8920 |
JET_efvAllowHigherPersistedFormat" and similar. I do know that my
problem is associated with a high error reporting load. Quite what, if
anything, this might have to do with Intel TBMT I do not know but the
two seemed to be tied together in some fashion.

Whatever the particular (peculiar) PS issue that you are experiencing
is, it is unique to your setup, and usage. It seems that none of us
here have the same problem, nor are any of us able to replicate your
problem.
I beg to differ. Apart from the fact that neither of us yet know what
the problem actually is, in my searches of Google I have found many
people who over the years have had troubles with PS while LR runs
smoothly.

Well, OK then.


As for you ever being able to process/edit an NEF, or any other RAW
file with PS without the intervention of ACR, that is not possible.

Of course not. I have never made that claim. Obviously there has to
be a raw convertor, but I have never seen the ACR image processing
sliders. Why that should be I do not know but I would rather you
didn't imply I've been somehow just not seeing them for all the years
I have been using Photoshop.

How I read your earlier description was that you somehow managed to open
an NEF without initiating ACR. Now I understand that your
dropping/opening an NEF with PS does initiate ACR(plugin) for
demosaicing/processing prior to the file being opened in PS for further
editing.

Well, obviously. Otherwise I would never have been able to process
them in Photoshop.

Directly opening a RAW file is beyond the capability of PS. ACR is
needed. Drop a RAW file into PS and it will open ACR, a PS plugin, and
depending on what options you used you can return to ACR from the
filters menu to refine the process.
Irrespective of what you may believe, I have never previously dropped
into the ACR editing window when loading images in photoshop.

OK! I believe we might have been talking at cross purposes. There are of
course three ways to use ACR. As a plugin for PS, as the processing
engine of LR, via Adobe Bridge.

Your continuing refusal to believe me has not helped.

It wasn’t a matter of not believing you, I understood that you were
experiencing a very real, and frustrating problem. For me it was a case of
finding your problem difficult to fully comprehend as you detailed it.
Especially since I could not find a logical reason for it in my macOS Adobe
mind.

My Windows ignorance probably clouded my thinking on this.



At this point I can’t see what any of us could say, or do to explain,
or fix your unique PS problem.

It would help if you were familiar with Windows.

I haven't used Windows since I retired 12 years ago, and my personal
computing is Windows free. So from that position I can offer no advice on
anything regarding Windows.


I have just read a suggestion that it may be my Acronis backup/etc
software which might be at the root of my problem. Lets see, but I
expect it to fight me.

And it was the Acronis, as I have now detailed elsewhere. And I have
also found the explanation for the ACR conundrum.

Well there always was an Adobe installation warning requiring AV and other
third party system software to be turned off/disabled when installing PS.
For macOS anyway.

It was nothing to do with installation. Photoshop clearly does
something which Acronis interprets as a bad actor trying to render
files incomprehensible. So Acronis steps in and stops and reverses
whatever PS is trying to do. So its an all in wrestling match between
them.

I think if that were the case, the file would not open at all, as opposed to
taking only an hour or so.