Questions on IPTC information

Hello,

Up to now, I have been using Canon Zoombrowser (ver. 3). I often use the
"photo title" in order so save some information on the pictures. Newer
versions of the Zoombrowser don't show this information completely anymore
and I have no confidence in its database that is not "standard". (And that
had some tendency to ... crash ; version 3 is better now)

Now, after some experimentation with picasa2, I discovered IPTC. Is this
really a standard ?
In any case, the caption information is not stored IN the picture data
itself, so there is still a kind of database, which should be backed-up.

I am very surprised to see that an other program, Irfanview sees the IPTC
information I have made with picasa2.
Is there some system setting that refers to the location of IPTC information
(which, in my case is in some Picasa called directory in documents and
settings) ?

Would you advice me to start using IPTC ?

And if yes, is there any tool to convert the old Zoombrowser data into IPTC
?

Thank you
R-ton

"R-ton" writes:

Up to now, I have been using Canon Zoombrowser (ver. 3). I often use the
"photo title" in order so save some information on the pictures. Newer
versions of the Zoombrowser don't show this information completely anymore
and I have no confidence in its database that is not "standard". (And that
had some tendency to ... crash ; version 3 is better now)

Now, after some experimentation with picasa2, I discovered IPTC. Is this
really a standard ?

Yes. It was developed over in the photojournalism industry, I think
by the magazines and/or wire services, to keep caption information
associated with pictures reliably as they're shipped around the
world. I'm using it a lot myself.

In any case, the caption information is not stored IN the picture data
itself, so there is still a kind of database, which should be backed-up.

The IPTC information *is* stored in the image file -- in JPEG and
TIFF, anyway. And PSD I think.

I am very surprised to see that an other program, Irfanview sees the IPTC
information I have made with picasa2.

You'll find that Thumbs Plus also sees it. Also various Perl modules
useful for writing web scripts :-). And Photoshop sees it, too.

Is there some system setting that refers to the location of IPTC
information (which, in my case is in some Picasa called directory in
documents and settings) ?

Would you advice me to start using IPTC ?

I'm using it myself. I think of it as the digital equivalent of
writing on the back of your snapshot prints. Remember how you cursed
the people who kept old family photos *but didn't label them*? :-)

And if yes, is there any tool to convert the old Zoombrowser data into IPTC
?

Sorry, I have not a clue about that point.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, , http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
RKBA: http://noguns-nomoney.com/ http://www.dd-b.net/carry/
Pics: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/
Dragaera/Steven Brust: http://dragaera.info/

"R-ton" writes:

Up to now, I have been using Canon Zoombrowser (ver. 3). I often use the
"photo title" in order so save some information on the pictures. Newer
versions of the Zoombrowser don't show this information completely anymore
and I have no confidence in its database that is not "standard". (And that
had some tendency to ... crash ; version 3 is better now)

Now, after some experimentation with picasa2, I discovered IPTC. Is this
really a standard ?

Yes. It was developed over in the photojournalism industry, I think
by the magazines and/or wire services, to keep caption information
associated with pictures reliably as they're shipped around the
world. I'm using it a lot myself.

In any case, the caption information is not stored IN the picture data
itself, so there is still a kind of database, which should be backed-up.

The IPTC information *is* stored in the image file -- in JPEG and
TIFF, anyway. And PSD I think.

I am very surprised to see that an other program, Irfanview sees the IPTC
information I have made with picasa2.

You'll find that Thumbs Plus also sees it. Also various Perl modules
useful for writing web scripts :-). And Photoshop sees it, too.

Is there some system setting that refers to the location of IPTC
information (which, in my case is in some Picasa called directory in
documents and settings) ?

Would you advice me to start using IPTC ?

I'm using it myself. I think of it as the digital equivalent of
writing on the back of your snapshot prints. Remember how you cursed
the people who kept old family photos *but didn't label them*? :-)

And if yes, is there any tool to convert the old Zoombrowser data into IPTC
?

Sorry, I have not a clue about that point.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, , http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
RKBA: http://noguns-nomoney.com/ http://www.dd-b.net/carry/
Pics: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/
Dragaera/Steven Brust: http://dragaera.info/

Hello David,
thanks for your reply !

I don't mean to make this a "yes-no" discussion but...

If , as you say, "The IPTC information *is* stored in the image file -- in
JPEG and
TIFF, anyway. . "
.... then I don't understand that, after changing the caption, the JPG file
does not obtain a new version date ;

and I don' t understand that, If I take a copy of image 0001 for example ;
then I change the caption of image 0001
and then I replace image 0001 with its copy ...-- the caption remains ???

Best Regards,
R-ton



"David Dyer-Bennet" schreef in bericht
...
"R-ton" writes:

Up to now, I have been using Canon Zoombrowser (ver. 3). I often use the
"photo title" in order so save some information on the pictures. Newer
versions of the Zoombrowser don't show this information completely
anymore
and I have no confidence in its database that is not "standard". (And
that
had some tendency to ... crash ; version 3 is better now)

Now, after some experimentation with picasa2, I discovered IPTC. Is
this
really a standard ?

Yes. It was developed over in the photojournalism industry, I think
by the magazines and/or wire services, to keep caption information
associated with pictures reliably as they're shipped around the
world. I'm using it a lot myself.

In any case, the caption information is not stored IN the picture data
itself, so there is still a kind of database, which should be backed-up.

The IPTC information *is* stored in the image file -- in JPEG and
TIFF, anyway. And PSD I think.

I am very surprised to see that an other program, Irfanview sees the
IPTC
information I have made with picasa2.

You'll find that Thumbs Plus also sees it. Also various Perl modules
useful for writing web scripts :-). And Photoshop sees it, too.

Is there some system setting that refers to the location of IPTC
information (which, in my case is in some Picasa called directory in
documents and settings) ?

Would you advice me to start using IPTC ?

I'm using it myself. I think of it as the digital equivalent of
writing on the back of your snapshot prints. Remember how you cursed
the people who kept old family photos *but didn't label them*? :-)

And if yes, is there any tool to convert the old Zoombrowser data into
IPTC
?

Sorry, I have not a clue about that point.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, , http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
RKBA: http://noguns-nomoney.com/ http://www.dd-b.net/carry/
Pics: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/
http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/
Dragaera/Steven Brust: http://dragaera.info/

Hello David,
thanks for your reply !

I don't mean to make this a "yes-no" discussion but...

If , as you say, "The IPTC information *is* stored in the image file -- in
JPEG and
TIFF, anyway. . "
.... then I don't understand that, after changing the caption, the JPG file
does not obtain a new version date ;

and I don' t understand that, If I take a copy of image 0001 for example ;
then I change the caption of image 0001
and then I replace image 0001 with its copy ...-- the caption remains ???

Best Regards,
R-ton



"David Dyer-Bennet" schreef in bericht
...
"R-ton" writes:

Up to now, I have been using Canon Zoombrowser (ver. 3). I often use the
"photo title" in order so save some information on the pictures. Newer
versions of the Zoombrowser don't show this information completely
anymore
and I have no confidence in its database that is not "standard". (And
that
had some tendency to ... crash ; version 3 is better now)

Now, after some experimentation with picasa2, I discovered IPTC. Is
this
really a standard ?

Yes. It was developed over in the photojournalism industry, I think
by the magazines and/or wire services, to keep caption information
associated with pictures reliably as they're shipped around the
world. I'm using it a lot myself.

In any case, the caption information is not stored IN the picture data
itself, so there is still a kind of database, which should be backed-up.

The IPTC information *is* stored in the image file -- in JPEG and
TIFF, anyway. And PSD I think.

I am very surprised to see that an other program, Irfanview sees the
IPTC
information I have made with picasa2.

You'll find that Thumbs Plus also sees it. Also various Perl modules
useful for writing web scripts :-). And Photoshop sees it, too.

Is there some system setting that refers to the location of IPTC
information (which, in my case is in some Picasa called directory in
documents and settings) ?

Would you advice me to start using IPTC ?

I'm using it myself. I think of it as the digital equivalent of
writing on the back of your snapshot prints. Remember how you cursed
the people who kept old family photos *but didn't label them*? :-)

And if yes, is there any tool to convert the old Zoombrowser data into
IPTC
?

Sorry, I have not a clue about that point.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, , http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
RKBA: http://noguns-nomoney.com/ http://www.dd-b.net/carry/
Pics: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/
http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/
Dragaera/Steven Brust: http://dragaera.info/

"R-ton" wrote:

If , as you say, "The IPTC information *is* stored in the image file -- in
JPEG and
TIFF, anyway. . "
... then I don't understand that, after changing the caption, the JPG file
does not obtain a new version date ;

Date stamps on files can be changed to anything you want them to be.
When you add a caption, do lossless rotation, modify exif data, your
software is keeping track of what the date/time was and then setting
it back to original time.

In *nux there is a command named touch, in the windows world I think a
program just makes a OS call.


Wes

--
Reply to:
Whiskey Echo Sierra Sierra AT Alpha Charlie Echo Golf Romeo Oscar Paul dot Charlie Charlie
Lycos address is a spam trap.

"R-ton" writes:

Hello David,
thanks for your reply !

I don't mean to make this a "yes-no" discussion but...

If , as you say, "The IPTC information *is* stored in the image file -- in
JPEG and
TIFF, anyway. . "
... then I don't understand that, after changing the caption, the JPG file
does not obtain a new version date ;

The software is probably written to restore the file date, since for
image files people often want the original date kept on it. Most of
the software I've seen has this at least as an option.

and I don' t understand that, If I take a copy of image 0001 for example ;
then I change the caption of image 0001
and then I replace image 0001 with its copy ...-- the caption remains ???

If I put IPTC info into a file, transfer that file to my web server,
with appropriate HTML, view that page, save a copy of the file locally
on a third system, and examine the IPTC info -- it'll be exactly what
I put into the file initially on that first system. The information
is stored in the file. I've read through the PERL code to read and
write it. I've used a "hex editor" to look at the JPEG files and see
the text of the IPTC information sitting there among the unreadable
binary parts.

Are you sure that the particular field you're altering, in the way
you're altering it, is actually stored in the IPTC fields? I know I
can put keywords either into IPTC fields, or into the Thumbs Plus
database directly, or tell it to do both at once. It's easy for me to
not actually be doing what I *think* I'm doing, and my strangest
results have always turned out to be caused by something like that.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, , http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
RKBA: http://noguns-nomoney.com/ http://www.dd-b.net/carry/
Pics: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/
Dragaera/Steven Brust: http://dragaera.info/

Yes, you're right, David and Wes !! !! !! It *is* stored in the image
file.

Actually, after replacing a picture with a different version (with a
different caption)
Picasa does not show the renewed caption immediately. Some time, or an
explicit "refresh thumbnails" is needed.
That's why I was misled.
Picasa is holding a copy of the captions in the file imagedata_captions.pmp,
probably for quick display of thumbnails.

Now I'm convinced.
This seems to be a much better system than keeping metadata in a separate
Canon-made data base.

Now I may hope to find some conversion program from Canon Database to IPTC.
Otherwise .... : copy -- paste ...?

Good "educational" remark, David :
"It's easy for me to
not actually be doing what I *think* I'm doing, and my strangest
results have always turned out to be caused by something like that. "

Thanks
R-ton



"David Dyer-Bennet" schreef in bericht
...
"R-ton" writes:

Hello David,
thanks for your reply !

I don't mean to make this a "yes-no" discussion but...

If , as you say, "The IPTC information *is* stored in the image file --
in
JPEG and
TIFF, anyway. . "
... then I don't understand that, after changing the caption, the JPG
file
does not obtain a new version date ;

The software is probably written to restore the file date, since for
image files people often want the original date kept on it. Most of
the software I've seen has this at least as an option.

and I don' t understand that, If I take a copy of image 0001 for example
;
then I change the caption of image 0001
and then I replace image 0001 with its copy ...-- the caption remains
???

If I put IPTC info into a file, transfer that file to my web server,
with appropriate HTML, view that page, save a copy of the file locally
on a third system, and examine the IPTC info -- it'll be exactly what
I put into the file initially on that first system. The information
is stored in the file. I've read through the PERL code to read and
write it. I've used a "hex editor" to look at the JPEG files and see
the text of the IPTC information sitting there among the unreadable
binary parts.

Are you sure that the particular field you're altering, in the way
you're altering it, is actually stored in the IPTC fields? I know I
can put keywords either into IPTC fields, or into the Thumbs Plus
database directly, or tell it to do both at once. It's easy for me to
not actually be doing what I *think* I'm doing, and my strangest
results have always turned out to be caused by something like that.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, , http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
RKBA: http://noguns-nomoney.com/ http://www.dd-b.net/carry/
Pics: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/
http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/
Dragaera/Steven Brust: http://dragaera.info/

"R-ton" writes:

Yes, you're right, David and Wes !! !! !! It *is* stored in the image
file.

Actually, after replacing a picture with a different version (with a
different caption)
Picasa does not show the renewed caption immediately. Some time, or an
explicit "refresh thumbnails" is needed.
That's why I was misled.
Picasa is holding a copy of the captions in the file imagedata_captions.pmp,
probably for quick display of thumbnails.

Now I'm convinced.
This seems to be a much better system than keeping metadata in a separate
Canon-made data base.

Good! I'd hate to think that I'd gone *completely* delusional so
young.

Now I may hope to find some conversion program from Canon Database to IPTC.
Otherwise .... : copy -- paste ...?

Good "educational" remark, David :
"It's easy for me to
not actually be doing what I *think* I'm doing, and my strangest
results have always turned out to be caused by something like that. "

Thanks; glad it helped.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, , http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
RKBA: http://noguns-nomoney.com/ http://www.dd-b.net/carry/
Pics: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/
Dragaera/Steven Brust: http://dragaera.info/

"R-ton" writes:

Yes, you're right, David and Wes !! !! !! It *is* stored in the image
file.

Actually, after replacing a picture with a different version (with a
different caption)
Picasa does not show the renewed caption immediately. Some time, or an
explicit "refresh thumbnails" is needed.
That's why I was misled.
Picasa is holding a copy of the captions in the file imagedata_captions.pmp,
probably for quick display of thumbnails.

Now I'm convinced.
This seems to be a much better system than keeping metadata in a separate
Canon-made data base.

Good! I'd hate to think that I'd gone *completely* delusional so
young.

Now I may hope to find some conversion program from Canon Database to IPTC.
Otherwise .... : copy -- paste ...?

Good "educational" remark, David :
"It's easy for me to
not actually be doing what I *think* I'm doing, and my strangest
results have always turned out to be caused by something like that. "

Thanks; glad it helped.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, , http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
RKBA: http://noguns-nomoney.com/ http://www.dd-b.net/carry/
Pics: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/
Dragaera/Steven Brust: http://dragaera.info/