Nikon D200 vs. D80

"ASAAR" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 22:00:43 -0400, Bill wrote:

Really? Show us one single mistake in his comparison.

Start at the top:

"D80 has the D200's 10 MP image sensor".

ACK....wrong.

That's probably a clumsy way of saying that both sensors have 10
million pixels, not that they're identical.

The sensors are not at all similar. The only similarity is the
manufacturer and the approximate number of pixels, beyond that they're
quite different.

Jump down to the first comparison list where he has side-by-side
data
and you find more errors. Let's start at the third item in the
list:

Weight 20 oz. (575g) [D80]

ACK...wrong.

Weight 29 oz. (825g) [D200]

ACK...wrong.

The rest you can find on your own...

Off by 10 grams
and 5 grams. You think that's a sufficient discrepancy to justify
calling Rockwell a flake and a liar? Sheesh. Take a look at
yourself before you cast out any more Persians.

Like I said, that's only the beginning. Take the time to look and
learn, and you'll see a lot more and you'll start to realize why I
feel this way. Hint - it's not just the comparison data.

I should mention that my girlfriend tells me all the time that I'm a
pretty easy going guy, and it takes a lot to get me riled up - and
she's tried on several occasions. But when it comes to twits spouting
off about things that they clearly do not have a complete grasp upon,
it irks me to no end.

Rockwell is one of those twits.

"ASAAR" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 21:43:18 -0400, Pie Crust Bill wrote:

For comparison to see if you need the D200 over the D80, perhaps.
But
there are factual errors, such as the sensor being the same as the
D200 (it is not), no mirror lockup (it has it), etc.

Didn't he say that they both had mirror lockup, but the D80's was
more limited, being that it was really just for sensor cleaning?

Yes, which is bullsh!t.

While the D200 can hold the mirror up for an extended period, the
difference is merely a period of time. The purpose is to eliminate
mirror slap vibrations, and both do that exactly the same way.

True mirror lockup means the mirror is locked up out of the way before
a lense is even attached so that a lense with a protruding rear
element does not get hit by the mirror when it moves, then stays up
AFTER the exposure so the mirror doesn't fall on the rear of a lense.

This isn't a big deal these days as most lenses don't protrude into
the mirror chamber.

The comment about the D80 is only for sensor cleaning is VERY
misleading. Also in the comparsion chart he says "no" for mirror
lockup, which is wrong since the D80 clearly does have the same delay
lockup as the D200.

It's all these little things that add up to one big twit.

I'm not familiar with the differences between the sensors. If
they're significant enough to matter, what would they be?
Sensitivity? Speed? Power consumption? Something else?

The sensors are not the same pixel count, which means they're not from
the same dies. The D200 has 4-channel output for higher frame rate and
buffering. It appears the AA filter may also be different in that the
D80 has better high ISO performance but perhaps at the cost of
slightly less sharpness.

The D50 was similar to the D70 in this regard.

I fully admit I have an agenda - to help new people looking for
honest
advice.

Ken Rockwell is a flake and I don't like to see people get misled
by
his delusional reviews. Usually people learn quickly on their own
that
he's not someone to trust for accurate or honest info. I like to
give
them a head-start though.

Your comments may have a different effect than the ones you
intended. Guess why?

Because my mom said I talk too loud?

Hey I can't help that, I was trained that way...

:-)

"ASAAR" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 21:43:18 -0400, Pie Crust Bill wrote:

For comparison to see if you need the D200 over the D80, perhaps.
But
there are factual errors, such as the sensor being the same as the
D200 (it is not), no mirror lockup (it has it), etc.

I forgot something in my last post...at the end of the comparison,
Rockwell thanks some person for help.

Given his history of deceitful "reviews", it makes me wonder if he
wrote it or had any real input at all. Heck, maybe the twit had
someone else write it up and he's never even seen a D80. With him, who
knows...

In rec.photo.digital.slr-systems Bill wrote:

You are full of ****!

I can't be...I went the bathroom earlier.

:-)

Did you read the article?

Of course, and I handled the D80 on the weekend, that's why I know his
so-called "review" is suspect.

Did you read it?


Yes ... did you?

He did a direct comparison,
and any opinion stated in there is clearly his.

Opinions are fine, until they misguide innocent others looking for
good advice.


As I stated, it was primarily a feature comparison. Any conclusions he makes
on those comparisons are clearly his opinion, but the feature comparisons
themself are accurate; which is the subject of the article.

As far as the article's
accuracy, it appears to be quite accurate. All stats are tabulated
and
compared precisely. That link was indeed a decent post.

For comparison to see if you need the D200 over the D80, perhaps. But
there are factual errors, such as the sensor being the same as the
D200 (it is not), no mirror lockup (it has it), etc.


I can't find in the specs from Nikon where it says the D80 has mirror lockup.
Also, both the D80 and the D200 sport a 10.2MP sensor 3872x2592 pixels. Seems
the same to me.

Please keep your agenda to yourself.

I fully admit I have an agenda - to help new people looking for honest
advice.


Yeah, right.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1

In rec.photo.digital.slr-systems Bill wrote:

Yes, which is bullsh!t.

While the D200 can hold the mirror up for an extended period, the
difference is merely a period of time. The purpose is to eliminate
mirror slap vibrations, and both do that exactly the same way.


If the lockup is the same as for the D70(s) then it is indeed only for
cleaning. You can't use it to photograph an image and avoid mirror slap
vibration. I admit that I am not sure about this feature without doing more
research.

I'm not familiar with the differences between the sensors. If
they're significant enough to matter, what would they be?
Sensitivity? Speed? Power consumption? Something else?

The sensors are not the same pixel count, which means they're not from
the same dies. The D200 has 4-channel output for higher frame rate and
buffering. It appears the AA filter may also be different in that the
D80 has better high ISO performance but perhaps at the cost of
slightly less sharpness.


The pixel count is identical on both the D80 and the D200; which is 3872x2592
pixels on a 10.2MP sensor.

Compare the D80

http://www.nikonusa.com/template.php...roductNr=25412

to the D200

http://www.nikonusa.com/template.php...roductNr=25235

for yourself. Same pixel count to be sure.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1

In rec.photo.digital.slr-systems Little Green Eyed Dragon wrote:

I was talking with someone the other day boasting to be a personal
friend of his, I thought "idiot" after much sputtering from him I was
convinced.


I love hearsay ... I make judgements based upon it too; especially when we get
it thirdhand in a newsgroup. Awesome!

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1

In rec.photo.digital.slr-systems Bill wrote:
"cjcampbell" wrote in message
ps.com...

Bill wrote:
His so-called "review" is full of misinformation and bias.

Really? Show us one single mistake in his comparison.

Start at the top:

"D80 has the D200's 10 MP image sensor".

ACK....wrong.

Really? They both have a 10.2MP 3872x2592 sensor. Care to refute that?


"look, quality and color of the D200's images"

ACK...wrong.

Jump down to the first comparison list where he has side-by-side data
and you find more errors. Let's start at the third item in the list:

Weight 20 oz. (575g) [D80]

ACK...wrong.

Eh? Looks like Nikon aggrees with our buddy and not you:

"Weight: Approximately 1 lb. 5 oz. (585g) without battery, memory card, body
cap, or monitor cover"


Weight 29 oz. (825g) [D200]

ACK...wrong.


Wrong ... here is what is listed on Nikon's site:

"Weight: Approx. 830g without battery, memory card, body cap, or monitor
cover"

Seems about right to me ....

The rest you can find on your own...I don't time to find and
copy&paste everything that Rockwell posts incorrectly - I'd be sitting
here all week.


Your agenda misrepresents your case.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1

In rec.photo.digital.slr-systems Bill wrote:

That's probably a clumsy way of saying that both sensors have 10
million pixels, not that they're identical.

The sensors are not at all similar. The only similarity is the
manufacturer and the approximate number of pixels, beyond that they're
quite different.


You REALLY REALLY need to back up your answers. They have the exact same
number of pixels according to Nikon @ 3872x2592. That is pretty specific ...
to the pixel, don't you think?

Like I said, that's only the beginning. Take the time to look and
learn, and you'll see a lot more and you'll start to realize why I
feel this way. Hint - it's not just the comparison data.


So, far every one of your accusations has been refuted as incorrect and you
have yet to discredit Ken's comparison values.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1

Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
As I stated, it was primarily a feature comparison. Any conclusions he makes
on those comparisons are clearly his opinion, but the feature comparisons
themself are accurate; which is the subject of the article.

The D200 is 120 better than the D80.

In rec.photo.digital.slr-systems Cynicor wrote:
Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
As I stated, it was primarily a feature comparison. Any conclusions he makes
on those comparisons are clearly his opinion, but the feature comparisons
themself are accurate; which is the subject of the article.

The D200 is 120 better than the D80.

Hehe ... good one.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1