Nikon made me buy Canon

"Mark B." wrote in message
...

Canon digitals don't support older manual focus lenses either, so I'm not
sure you made any kind of point.

Nikon claims backward compatibility. It's not quite true.

The lens mount will accept my MF lenses but they won't work with the camera.

Hence, I went Canon and any Canon AF lens will work with my D300.

--
Yours

Zebedee

(Claiming asylum in an attempt
to escape paying his debts to
Dougal and Florence)

"Mark B." wrote in message
...

Canon digitals don't support older manual focus lenses either, so I'm not
sure you made any kind of point.

Nikon claims backward compatibility. It's not quite true.

The lens mount will accept my MF lenses but they won't work with the camera.

Hence, I went Canon and any Canon AF lens will work with my D300.

--
Yours

Zebedee

(Claiming asylum in an attempt
to escape paying his debts to
Dougal and Florence)

I see your point Skip

You are experienced - but there has to be a draw for aspirants too before
brnd loyalties are formed

Catering for first time buyers? Brand switchers?

I think thos were the lines i was lokking to develpe - probably failing in
the communications bit too though

Artie

"Skip M" wrote in message
news:xnjJc.166$SD3.35@okepread06...
"Arte Phacting" wrote in message
...
As a mere novice to photography it seems a shame to see so much
anti-support
from such big names.

Digital photography is a sea-change in taking images - it is a shame to
see
a customer base being dumped so badly. Didn't N also charge their own
customers for proprietery software bundle too?

If so, that really does make my nipples hurt. A digital camera does
need
good software.

I'd like to see one of the big brands team up with PSCS as a bundle.
Then
I
may (emphasis on may) part with my hard earned spondoolies to DSLR -

I mean DSLR + Lenses + software sorta makes sense in a bundle and to
assist
conversion from 35mm to digital

Artie


Bundling lenses would be hard, since different photographers have
different
requirements. But you do see that done with Canon's Rebel D and the 18-55
EF-S, which by the way, only fits that camera, and Sigma bundling two of
their cheaper lenses with the SD10. But putting any more than one
everyday
lens in a package runs the risk of having a lens some photographers have
little or no use for, and leaving one or more out that some may really
want.
Fer instance, when I went to AF, I really wanted the Canon 100-400 IS, and
felt I had little need for wide angle zooms like the 17-35L, which at the
time was going for about $1200. I bought Canon's 28-135, 100-400, 100 f2
and 50 f1.8. (who could resist a fast lens for $70??) Then I bought
Sigma's
17-35, which sold for under $500. If any of those lenses were bundled
with
the camera I bought, that might have been nice, but what if one of them
had
been the Canon 17-35L?

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com

I see your point Skip

You are experienced - but there has to be a draw for aspirants too before
brnd loyalties are formed

Catering for first time buyers? Brand switchers?

I think thos were the lines i was lokking to develpe - probably failing in
the communications bit too though

Artie

"Skip M" wrote in message
news:xnjJc.166$SD3.35@okepread06...
"Arte Phacting" wrote in message
...
As a mere novice to photography it seems a shame to see so much
anti-support
from such big names.

Digital photography is a sea-change in taking images - it is a shame to
see
a customer base being dumped so badly. Didn't N also charge their own
customers for proprietery software bundle too?

If so, that really does make my nipples hurt. A digital camera does
need
good software.

I'd like to see one of the big brands team up with PSCS as a bundle.
Then
I
may (emphasis on may) part with my hard earned spondoolies to DSLR -

I mean DSLR + Lenses + software sorta makes sense in a bundle and to
assist
conversion from 35mm to digital

Artie


Bundling lenses would be hard, since different photographers have
different
requirements. But you do see that done with Canon's Rebel D and the 18-55
EF-S, which by the way, only fits that camera, and Sigma bundling two of
their cheaper lenses with the SD10. But putting any more than one
everyday
lens in a package runs the risk of having a lens some photographers have
little or no use for, and leaving one or more out that some may really
want.
Fer instance, when I went to AF, I really wanted the Canon 100-400 IS, and
felt I had little need for wide angle zooms like the 17-35L, which at the
time was going for about $1200. I bought Canon's 28-135, 100-400, 100 f2
and 50 f1.8. (who could resist a fast lens for $70??) Then I bought
Sigma's
17-35, which sold for under $500. If any of those lenses were bundled
with
the camera I bought, that might have been nice, but what if one of them
had
been the Canon 17-35L?

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com

From: David Dyer-Bennet

You do realize that Canon did a much worse thing a few years back,
right? When they went from the FD mount to whatever the auto-focus
system they use now is called, they made a *complete* flag-day change;
no forward or backward compatibility between the old and the new
systems.

Man, the same **** happened to me when I bought my first CD player. The dang
thing wouldn't even play my LP records! Boy, the music industry really messed
that up, huh?

(Philip Homburg) writes:

In article ,
David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
You do realize that Canon did a much worse thing a few years back,
right? When they went from the FD mount to whatever the auto-focus
system they use now is called, they made a *complete* flag-day change;
no forward or backward compatibility between the old and the new
systems.

Whereas I still use my AIS Nikon lenses on my digital SLR perfectly
happily. And I can use my Nikon auto-focus lenses on my FM, too.
Significant forward and backwards compatibility.

The problem is that Nikon considers the D70 and the D100 consumer electronics
and not a professional dSLR. The D1 works great with manual focus Nikkors
and I assume that the D1H, D1X, and D2H work just as well.

I'm using a Fuji S2, which has the same limitations as the D100 (and
N80).

It doesn't meter with the AIS lenses, but with a digital camera *who
cares*? If I need a perfect "first shot" I can do test shots ahead of
time (just the way I'd use a light meter ahead of time to prepare with
a film camera). If it's studio or a repeating event so I can home in
on the perfect exposure as I work, even easier. So the lack of
metering is a minor inconvenience. (The lack of TTL flash with those
lenses would be more annoying if TTL flash worked decently with the
digital SLRs to begin with....)

(Which still ****es me off; because it's pure marketing, as the
ability to meter with those lenses on all the cameras you list, and
the F-100 and F5, demonstrates.)
--
David Dyer-Bennet, , http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
RKBA: http://noguns-nomoney.com/ http://www.dd-b.net/carry/
Pics: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/
Dragaera/Steven Brust: http://dragaera.info/

"Zebedee" writes:

"David Dyer-Bennet" wrote in message
...

You do realize that Canon did a much worse thing a few years back,
right? When they went from the FD mount to whatever the auto-focus
system they use now is called, they made a *complete* flag-day change;
no forward or backward compatibility between the old and the new
systems.

Yes. They did BUT Nikon's F4 works with all Nikon MF lenses. So should the
D70 etc. They don't. I was forced to buy a new system so I voted with my
wallet and bought Canon.

Depends what you mean "works". I *use* those lenses with a Fuji S2
(same restrictions as the N80, D100, D70, etc.). I can't agree they
"don't work". Just that they don't work *as well as I'd like them
to*. But the problems they cause me are minimal; less than the fact
that they're manual focus.

Whereas I still use my AIS Nikon lenses on my digital SLR perfectly
happily. And I can use my Nikon auto-focus lenses on my FM, too.
Significant forward and backwards compatibility.

Sure. you can use dAF lenses on an FM but NAI lenses won't work on a D70
which makes the whole exercise utterly pointless. Sure the lenses will fit
physically but with no metering, what's the point? The system's as near as
dammit incompatible and hence useless.

What's NAI? Do you mean NOT AI? Or do you perhaps mean AI/AIS?

Anyway, I use AIS lenses on my S2 regularly, as I've said. Two of my
favorite lenses are AIS, and another couple I use fairly often. I
find the lack of metering a trivial issue. It's *digital*; instead of
metering, I shoot a test shot or two.

AI lenses go back to sometime in the late 1970s. Pre-AI lenses are
*really* old. (But I do have three bodies I can mount them on, two
FMs and an F).
--
David Dyer-Bennet, , http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
RKBA: http://noguns-nomoney.com/ http://www.dd-b.net/carry/
Pics: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/
Dragaera/Steven Brust: http://dragaera.info/

"Zebedee" writes:

"David Dyer-Bennet" wrote in message
...

You do realize that Canon did a much worse thing a few years back,
right? When they went from the FD mount to whatever the auto-focus
system they use now is called, they made a *complete* flag-day change;
no forward or backward compatibility between the old and the new
systems.

Yes. They did BUT Nikon's F4 works with all Nikon MF lenses. So should the
D70 etc. They don't. I was forced to buy a new system so I voted with my
wallet and bought Canon.

Depends what you mean "works". I *use* those lenses with a Fuji S2
(same restrictions as the N80, D100, D70, etc.). I can't agree they
"don't work". Just that they don't work *as well as I'd like them
to*. But the problems they cause me are minimal; less than the fact
that they're manual focus.

Whereas I still use my AIS Nikon lenses on my digital SLR perfectly
happily. And I can use my Nikon auto-focus lenses on my FM, too.
Significant forward and backwards compatibility.

Sure. you can use dAF lenses on an FM but NAI lenses won't work on a D70
which makes the whole exercise utterly pointless. Sure the lenses will fit
physically but with no metering, what's the point? The system's as near as
dammit incompatible and hence useless.

What's NAI? Do you mean NOT AI? Or do you perhaps mean AI/AIS?

Anyway, I use AIS lenses on my S2 regularly, as I've said. Two of my
favorite lenses are AIS, and another couple I use fairly often. I
find the lack of metering a trivial issue. It's *digital*; instead of
metering, I shoot a test shot or two.

AI lenses go back to sometime in the late 1970s. Pre-AI lenses are
*really* old. (But I do have three bodies I can mount them on, two
FMs and an F).
--
David Dyer-Bennet, , http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
RKBA: http://noguns-nomoney.com/ http://www.dd-b.net/carry/
Pics: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/
Dragaera/Steven Brust: http://dragaera.info/

Canon digitals don't support older manual focus lenses either, so I'm not
sure you made any kind of point.


I use my old preset lenses (Vivitar 300mm and 500mm) with a "t-mount" to EOS
adapter. I just put the camera in Av mode and let it choose the speed. The
focus is somewhat difficult to do but they work fine.

Jean

"Arte Phacting" wrote in
:

Digital photography is a sea-change in taking images - it is a shame
to see a customer base being dumped so badly. Didn't N also charge
their own customers for proprietery software bundle too?

If so, that really does make my nipples hurt. A digital camera does
need good software.

This is not a point I like to hammer. Being a Canon 10D user I don’t use
ANY of the software that came with my camera. I am told that for RAW
shooting the best conversion software is Capture one and that Photoshop CS
also does a good job (but with a slower workflow).

Whether you pay Nikon for software for a Nikon D-SLR or a third party for
the Canon D-SLR you still pay a bit more either way.


--
Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
See my pics at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~markh/
"There are 10 types of people, those that
understand binary and those that don't"