20D: Why not simple drag-and-drop download?

Recently got my new Canon 20D, which I am enjoying very much, but was
surprised to discover that I had to use imaging software to download the 20D
pictures to my computer.

This is about my 5th digital camera. As I recall, with all the others, I
just connected the USB cable, set the camera to its download setting, turned
it on and the camera came up in "My Computer" as an external USB drive.
Then, I could just drag and drop the picture files into a folder on my
desktop. But when I tried that with my Canon 20D, it did not show up as a
drive at all. Win XP, via the "New Hardware Found" program, said it needed
a driver to work. Finally, I went to the 20D manual (last resort, of
course) and installed their software and was able to download the pictures,
although still not via drag-and-drop.

Later, I found the other page in the manual (duh!) that showed me how to set
the camera to "PTP" and use the Win XP wizard to download. I like that
better.

The odd thing was that, a few days ago -- before I got my new camera -- my
son was here with his 20D and we downloaded some pictures he had taken to my
computer, without installing the 20D software on it. I recall that there
was some kind of minor hassle about recognizing new hardware but I also
remember that I was able to see his camera as a drive and drag-and-drop the
pictures to my desktop but I did not have to install any software to make
that happen. That's another reason why I was surprised that I could not do
that with my camera until I installed software. (Or did the "PTP" thing.)

I am sure someone knows why Canon chose to make downloading 20D pix (maybe
for other Canon cameras, too, I don't know) a more complicated deal than
other manufacturers do. I'd be interested to know that. Also, if someone
could pass along some understanding of how/why/when the 20D method of
downloading works, that would be helpful to me and would help me understand
what my choices are for downloading pictures.

mack
austin

In article , Mack McKinnon
wrote:

Recently got my new Canon 20D, which I am enjoying very much, but was
surprised to discover that I had to use imaging software to download the 20D
pictures to my computer.

Get a stick reader.

In article , Mack McKinnon
writes
Recently got my new Canon 20D, which I am enjoying very much, but was
surprised to discover that I had to use imaging software to download the 20D
pictures to my computer.

This is about my 5th digital camera. As I recall, with all the others, I
just connected the USB cable, set the camera to its download setting, turned
it on and the camera came up in "My Computer" as an external USB drive.
Then, I could just drag and drop the picture files into a folder on my
desktop. But when I tried that with my Canon 20D, it did not show up as a
drive at all. Win XP, via the "New Hardware Found" program, said it needed
a driver to work. Finally, I went to the 20D manual (last resort, of
course) and installed their software and was able to download the pictures,
although still not via drag-and-drop.

Later, I found the other page in the manual (duh!) that showed me how to set
the camera to "PTP" and use the Win XP wizard to download. I like that
better.

The odd thing was that, a few days ago -- before I got my new camera -- my
son was here with his 20D and we downloaded some pictures he had taken to my
computer, without installing the 20D software on it. I recall that there
was some kind of minor hassle about recognizing new hardware but I also
remember that I was able to see his camera as a drive and drag-and-drop the
pictures to my desktop but I did not have to install any software to make
that happen. That's another reason why I was surprised that I could not do
that with my camera until I installed software. (Or did the "PTP" thing.)

I am sure someone knows why Canon chose to make downloading 20D pix (maybe
for other Canon cameras, too, I don't know) a more complicated deal than
other manufacturers do. I'd be interested to know that. Also, if someone
could pass along some understanding of how/why/when the 20D method of
downloading works, that would be helpful to me and would help me understand
what my choices are for downloading pictures.

I can't speak of the 20D as I have never used one. With my 10D I had
used it for almost 2 years with no problem in downloading (I use the
File Viewer rather than Zoom Browser, which I find awkward). Then for
some reason a couple of months ago, on connecting the camera as usual,
the computer failed to see the camera. Reloading the software did not
cure this. It still worked fine on my daughter's PC - she also has the
software for her 300D - so I downloaded there and moved across on the
network.

I soon got tired of this, though, and went out and got a card reader. I
just remove the card, put it in the reader and drop and drag across.
Works fine (as Randall suggested) and is actually quicker (using USB 2).

I can still open the RAW files in File Viewer if I wish to use this to
convert. However, at the same time, I upgraded to Photoshop CS2, which I
find gives faster and more flexible conversion and a better work-flow
overall.

David
--
David Littlewood

It is the same with the 350D (Rebel XT), which I have. However, it does not
seem difficult, it is easy to switch and the manuals describe the difference
between the 2 methods. I suspect that 'PTP' is not the default setting
because it only works with Windows XP. It does not work with older versions
of Windows.

I personally like the automatic Canon download system (PC driver and
software mode). I have it set up to download into sub-directories by date of
taking the picture. In this way, I already have some sorting applied, which
can be a blessing when you have a couple of hundred pictures to download
after a 2 week holiday.

Mike Bernstein

"Mack McKinnon" wrote in
message ...
Recently got my new Canon 20D, which I am enjoying very much, but was
surprised to discover that I had to use imaging software to download the
20D pictures to my computer.

This is about my 5th digital camera. As I recall, with all the others, I
just connected the USB cable, set the camera to its download setting,
turned it on and the camera came up in "My Computer" as an external USB
drive. Then, I could just drag and drop the picture files into a folder on
my desktop. But when I tried that with my Canon 20D, it did not show up
as a drive at all. Win XP, via the "New Hardware Found" program, said it
needed a driver to work. Finally, I went to the 20D manual (last resort,
of course) and installed their software and was able to download the
pictures, although still not via drag-and-drop.

Later, I found the other page in the manual (duh!) that showed me how to
set the camera to "PTP" and use the Win XP wizard to download. I like
that better.

The odd thing was that, a few days ago -- before I got my new camera -- my
son was here with his 20D and we downloaded some pictures he had taken to
my computer, without installing the 20D software on it. I recall that
there was some kind of minor hassle about recognizing new hardware but I
also remember that I was able to see his camera as a drive and
drag-and-drop the pictures to my desktop but I did not have to install any
software to make that happen. That's another reason why I was surprised
that I could not do that with my camera until I installed software. (Or
did the "PTP" thing.)

I am sure someone knows why Canon chose to make downloading 20D pix (maybe
for other Canon cameras, too, I don't know) a more complicated deal than
other manufacturers do. I'd be interested to know that. Also, if someone
could pass along some understanding of how/why/when the 20D method of
downloading works, that would be helpful to me and would help me
understand what my choices are for downloading pictures.

mack
austin

"Mike Bernstein" wrote in message
...
It is the same with the 350D (Rebel XT), which I have. However, it does
not seem difficult, it is easy to switch and the manuals describe the
difference between the 2 methods. I suspect that 'PTP' is not the default
setting because it only works with Windows XP. It does not work with older
versions of Windows.

Yes IIRC there is a communication setting in the camera menu.
PTP (Picture Transfer Protocol) is something that XP recognises inherently.

Communication - USB: Normal, PTP




I personally like the automatic Canon download system (PC driver and
software mode). I have it set up to download into sub-directories by date
of taking the picture. In this way, I already have some sorting applied,
which can be a blessing when you have a couple of hundred pictures to
download after a 2 week holiday.

Mike Bernstein

"Mack McKinnon" wrote in
message ...
Recently got my new Canon 20D, which I am enjoying very much, but was
surprised to discover that I had to use imaging software to download the
20D pictures to my computer.

This is about my 5th digital camera. As I recall, with all the others, I
just connected the USB cable, set the camera to its download setting,
turned it on and the camera came up in "My Computer" as an external USB
drive. Then, I could just drag and drop the picture files into a folder
on my desktop. But when I tried that with my Canon 20D, it did not show
up as a drive at all. Win XP, via the "New Hardware Found" program, said
it needed a driver to work. Finally, I went to the 20D manual (last
resort, of course) and installed their software and was able to download
the pictures, although still not via drag-and-drop.

Later, I found the other page in the manual (duh!) that showed me how to
set the camera to "PTP" and use the Win XP wizard to download. I like
that better.

The odd thing was that, a few days ago -- before I got my new camera --
my son was here with his 20D and we downloaded some pictures he had taken
to my computer, without installing the 20D software on it. I recall that
there was some kind of minor hassle about recognizing new hardware but I
also remember that I was able to see his camera as a drive and
drag-and-drop the pictures to my desktop but I did not have to install
any software to make that happen. That's another reason why I was
surprised that I could not do that with my camera until I installed
software. (Or did the "PTP" thing.)

I am sure someone knows why Canon chose to make downloading 20D pix
(maybe for other Canon cameras, too, I don't know) a more complicated
deal than other manufacturers do. I'd be interested to know that. Also,
if someone could pass along some understanding of how/why/when the 20D
method of downloading works, that would be helpful to me and would help
me understand what my choices are for downloading pictures.

mack
austin

Recently got my new Canon 20D, which I am enjoying very much, but was
surprised to discover that I had to use imaging software to download the 20D
pictures to my computer.


Get a stick reader.

Yes I'll second that. If you buy a card reader you'll never want to go
back. They're pretty cheap and it's just so much more convenient than
having to plug in the camera. I generally don't even bother installing
the WIA drivers now. The only situation where I would use the cameras
USB cable is when I'm using a laptop and remote capture.

"Randall Ainsworth" wrote in message
...
In article , Mack McKinnon
wrote:

Recently got my new Canon 20D, which I am enjoying very much, but was
surprised to discover that I had to use imaging software to download the
20D
pictures to my computer.

Get a stick reader.

No kidding, the guy has had 5 digital cameras and he still doesn't have a
card reader?

Greg

The cost of a "stick reader" is so low as to be negligible. So, there is no
reason for anyone not to have one if he wants one. In fact, I think I may
have one somewhere around here.

But personally, I have never seen the advantage of opening the camera,
popping out the card, putting it into a reader, moving the pictures off, &
putting the card back into the camera -- over just plugging in the camera
and pulling the pictures off that way. If there IS a good reason -- if, for
example, I am doing something terrible to the camera by doing it this way --
then, please, enlighten me.

Had I read the manual before I posted the question, I would have found that
simply setting the 20D "Communications" menu setting to PTP would have
allowed me to use XP PTP where I can then simply click on the "Advanced"
link to get the same view of my camera card pictures I am used to from other
cameras.

So, please enlighten me as to the reason why popping out the card every time
is SO much better than the way I have done it that its worth all your
disdain over my sad methods. I'm happy to learn.

mack
austin




"G.T." wrote in message
...

"Randall Ainsworth" wrote in message
...
In article , Mack McKinnon
wrote:

Recently got my new Canon 20D, which I am enjoying very much, but was
surprised to discover that I had to use imaging software to download
the
20D
pictures to my computer.

Get a stick reader.

No kidding, the guy has had 5 digital cameras and he still doesn't have a
card reader?

Greg

Mack McKinnon wrote:
The cost of a "stick reader" is so low as to be negligible. So, there is no
reason for anyone not to have one if he wants one. In fact, I think I may
have one somewhere around here.

But personally, I have never seen the advantage of opening the camera,
popping out the card, putting it into a reader, moving the pictures off, &
putting the card back into the camera -- over just plugging in the camera
and pulling the pictures off that way. If there IS a good reason -- if, for
example, I am doing something terrible to the camera by doing it this way --
then, please, enlighten me.

On my dRebel, it was 2 orders of magnitude faster to make the copy
using a card reader. I know the 20D is faster than the dRebel, but I
doubt it's as fast as a card reader.

Dave

According to Mack McKinnon :
The cost of a "stick reader" is so low as to be negligible. So, there is no
reason for anyone not to have one if he wants one. In fact, I think I may
have one somewhere around here.

Well ... those which I have seen all require a USB port, so they
can't be used with all of my computers -- but I do have a SCSI PCMCIA
card reader, which will read the CF cards which I use with an adaptor,
so no problem.

This lack of a USB port also prevents me from transferring
directly from the camera for most situations. And -- I've never
actually done a transfer from the camera, because I'm usually working
with the older Sun Unix systems with no USB support.

But personally, I have never seen the advantage of opening the camera,
popping out the card, putting it into a reader, moving the pictures off, &
putting the card back into the camera -- over just plugging in the camera
and pulling the pictures off that way.

Do you have only a single CF card (or whatever format your 20D
uses)? Is it really that difficult to remove the card from the 20D?
With my Nikon D70, the door is on the back, right under my thumb, so it
is a simple matter of swinging the door open (with my thumb), pressing
the eject button (with the same thumb), and then gripping the CF card
with the same thumb and forefinger. I then put the card away until I
can get to my computers, or if I am right there, I reach over and plug
in the CF card to the adaptor. I then slip the spare CF card into the
camera, (if I intend to take some more shots while those are
downloading), and start up the script which copies the images from the
CF card to one directory, and then copies those images to the other
directory, thus making a backup before I format the CF card to clean it.

I can also plug a second CF card into a second adaptor in the
PCMICA reader, and it will copy images from both cards before I need to
pay attention to it again.

How difficult is it to remove the media from your 20D? If it is
awkward, I can perhaps see your reason for not doing so -- but then it
would also make it awkward to change CF cards in the field when one gets
full. I can't picture Cannon making so simple an error in design.

If there IS a good reason -- if, for
example, I am doing something terrible to the camera by doing it this way --
then, please, enlighten me.

Well ... unless the USB port can provide enough power to run the
camera, you are discharging the camera's battery more quickly while
doing the transfers. Not exactly in the "terrible" category, but
inconvenient if you have a bunch more shots to take. Or -- if you
connect to an AC adaptor -- that is a second thing to connect. (And, I
believe that if you are transferring under battery power and the battery
reaches the end of its charge it can corrupt the data on the CF card.

Had I read the manual before I posted the question, I would have found that
simply setting the 20D "Communications" menu setting to PTP would have
allowed me to use XP PTP where I can then simply click on the "Advanced"
link to get the same view of my camera card pictures I am used to from other
cameras.

So, please enlighten me as to the reason why popping out the card every time
is SO much better than the way I have done it that its worth all your
disdain over my sad methods. I'm happy to learn.

I don't know about *his* situation -- but it is a lot more
convenient for me with my camera and my situation.

Enjoy,
DoN.

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