economy in developing paper

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 23:53:39 -0500, John
wrote:

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 05:09:13 -0400, Robert Vervoordt
wrote:

Good for a few years, I
found.

Same here. I wonder why it's so durable ?

I dunno. The stuff I used was about 15 years old when I employed it
in mived developers, something like 125g Sulfite, 250 g Carbonate and
25-50 g Blycin for a stock solution. I think it was diluted 1:3 or
1:7 for working strength. It was alright, nothing special. Well, the
working solution never seemed to go bad, just got used up.

I tried the formula in the Ilford patent where they got some
superadditivity between Phenidone and Glycin. That one looked like
ID-11, sort of. It was nice.

Later, when I got a nearly real darkroom, I started experimenting with
a lot of stuff, and began to rely on percentage solutions. That's
when I did the Lye/Bisulfite trick such as you di with Carbonate. I
was now using 30 something year old dark brown stuff; the same stuff I
bought when a teenager. The stuff sizzled going into the Lye and the
solution cleared after the Bisufite. It worked for about 5 years,
perfectly. Recently, I came across a bottle that had been used, about
60% left. It was still clear. I had to chuck it because of packing
for a move.

I still have a few experiments to complete, and I just ran across the
original container, half full with dark Brown Glycin powder.

Dare I?


Regards,

John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.puresilver.org
Please remove the "_" when replying via email

Robert Vervoordt, MFA

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 23:59:24 -0500, John
wrote:

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:33:51 -0400, Robert Vervoordt
wrote:


That one threw me the same way as it did John. Of course it is an
agent with a tendency to "smooth" out those Silver grains by solvent
action in some developers, but is that always so? There are a number
of formulae with low solvent action incorporating Glycin. Perhaps
this "solvent" reputation is not so deserved.

Robert Vervoordt, MFA

It's not the case. Most of the "fine grain" formulas used PPD
along with glycin.

Right, along with a truckload of Sulfite. Look at the 777
formulations. Metol, Sulfite Glycin and PPD. It's good stuff. Lasts
forever, too.

BTW, my promising experiments were with Glycin, Phenidone and color
developing agents. Just updated Sease variants. There was a speed
increase, so that's why I want to get back to them.

Cheers.


Robert Vervoordt, MFA

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 23:59:24 -0500, John
wrote:

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:33:51 -0400, Robert Vervoordt
wrote:


That one threw me the same way as it did John. Of course it is an
agent with a tendency to "smooth" out those Silver grains by solvent
action in some developers, but is that always so? There are a number
of formulae with low solvent action incorporating Glycin. Perhaps
this "solvent" reputation is not so deserved.

Robert Vervoordt, MFA

It's not the case. Most of the "fine grain" formulas used PPD
along with glycin.

Right, along with a truckload of Sulfite. Look at the 777
formulations. Metol, Sulfite Glycin and PPD. It's good stuff. Lasts
forever, too.

BTW, my promising experiments were with Glycin, Phenidone and color
developing agents. Just updated Sease variants. There was a speed
increase, so that's why I want to get back to them.

Cheers.


Robert Vervoordt, MFA

stefano bramato wrote in message . it...
ok friends, I always develop in dektol but this is a time that I use a
massive develop soup.
I was searching for more economy developer, I was thinking about agfa
Neutol.
Anyone has tryed this developer (sounds good)?

Any other suggestions for more economy in developer?

lookin for suggestions!!

Stefano

Ciao Stefano,

Many mentioned the fact you can mix your own.
Although I've everything needed to do it (chemicals, balance, ...), I
do it only for special products and very simple ones (stop bath, wash
aid) which are usually overpriced.

For standard print developer and fixer, I found Agfa has very good
quality/price here in Europe.
I use Neutol NE liquid (neutral tone, very similar to Dektol) and
Agefix.
Both are liquid so you can mix them very quickly.
Prices in France (http://www.prophot.fr or http://www.nighlight.fr)
are 5.50 Euros (1.25 liters bottle, without VAT) and 3.60 Euros for
the fixer (1 liter pack, without VAT). You can check also with german
distributor who should have similar or perhaps lower prices.
Neutol exists also in warmtone and several other packages (I think
powder is also available).

Just a word about Agfa, the new entity has opened its website:
http://www.agfaphoto.com
You can see the administrators are also among the serious shareholders
....

Un salutone,
Claudio Bonavolta
http://www.bonavolta.ch

stefano bramato wrote in message . it...
ok friends, I always develop in dektol but this is a time that I use a
massive develop soup.
I was searching for more economy developer, I was thinking about agfa
Neutol.
Anyone has tryed this developer (sounds good)?

Any other suggestions for more economy in developer?

lookin for suggestions!!

Stefano

Ciao Stefano,

Many mentioned the fact you can mix your own.
Although I've everything needed to do it (chemicals, balance, ...), I
do it only for special products and very simple ones (stop bath, wash
aid) which are usually overpriced.

For standard print developer and fixer, I found Agfa has very good
quality/price here in Europe.
I use Neutol NE liquid (neutral tone, very similar to Dektol) and
Agefix.
Both are liquid so you can mix them very quickly.
Prices in France (http://www.prophot.fr or http://www.nighlight.fr)
are 5.50 Euros (1.25 liters bottle, without VAT) and 3.60 Euros for
the fixer (1 liter pack, without VAT). You can check also with german
distributor who should have similar or perhaps lower prices.
Neutol exists also in warmtone and several other packages (I think
powder is also available).

Just a word about Agfa, the new entity has opened its website:
http://www.agfaphoto.com
You can see the administrators are also among the serious shareholders
....

Un salutone,
Claudio Bonavolta
http://www.bonavolta.ch

John wrote:

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:08:22 GMT, "Dickless Cheney"
wrote:

Where does one find this chemical, as well as other photo chemicals? I only
remember seeing one place on the interenet, and after shipping, etc, it was
not worth the bother. Are there any local places in southern California?

Might be in California but given the socialist government
there I kinda think you might have better luck in Nevada.

Anyway ....

You wouldn't say that if you lived in my state, once a moderate
stronghold but since taken over by right wing robots from Orange
County :-)

And just who is governor in CA?



http://www.artcraftchemicals.com/

1191 Metol 1 lb. 1.3 29.00
+ 6.00 shipping.

Note that shipping prices drop significantly for 3+ pounds.

U.S.A Ground 7 days [3-5.9 lbs.] ($7.00)


Cheaper than formulary but surprised no one mentioned
www.photoformulary.com

There's also www.techcheminc.com 800-852-5641. Cheaper
but limited chems. Forumlary has about anything you need
in stock so overhead is higher.

John wrote:

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:08:22 GMT, "Dickless Cheney"
wrote:

Where does one find this chemical, as well as other photo chemicals? I only
remember seeing one place on the interenet, and after shipping, etc, it was
not worth the bother. Are there any local places in southern California?

Might be in California but given the socialist government
there I kinda think you might have better luck in Nevada.

Anyway ....

You wouldn't say that if you lived in my state, once a moderate
stronghold but since taken over by right wing robots from Orange
County :-)

And just who is governor in CA?



http://www.artcraftchemicals.com/

1191 Metol 1 lb. 1.3 29.00
+ 6.00 shipping.

Note that shipping prices drop significantly for 3+ pounds.

U.S.A Ground 7 days [3-5.9 lbs.] ($7.00)


Cheaper than formulary but surprised no one mentioned
www.photoformulary.com

There's also www.techcheminc.com 800-852-5641. Cheaper
but limited chems. Forumlary has about anything you need
in stock so overhead is higher.

Dan Quinn wrote:

stefano bramato wrote

Any other suggestions for more economy in developer?


I will add a little more to my post of 10/13. Using the least
fluid practicle, lfp, you can use the developer and fixer one-shot.
Determine the amount of Neutol needed to fully develop one sheet of
paper. Use no more than that, then discard.

All you need is enough fluid to cover the paper. You can also
do this with dektol, which I conserve by mixing the least
I need to cover paper at 1:2 or 1:3. You can use highly dilute
paper developers (dektol can be used at 1:8 so if you develop
only 2-3 8x10s you can use 1 oz dektol + 8 ounces of water.)
The only drawback to this is that while you just need to
extend the developing times to develop to completion, at
higher dilutions maximum blacks (the D-max of the paper) will
be less than if used at standard dilutions.

Haven't used Neutol though.


Do the same with the fixer. I think you will find that you do
not need a stop bath. Only one tray is needed to develop and fix.
No tired developer, and no tired fixer. Dan

Dan Quinn wrote:

stefano bramato wrote

Any other suggestions for more economy in developer?


I will add a little more to my post of 10/13. Using the least
fluid practicle, lfp, you can use the developer and fixer one-shot.
Determine the amount of Neutol needed to fully develop one sheet of
paper. Use no more than that, then discard.

All you need is enough fluid to cover the paper. You can also
do this with dektol, which I conserve by mixing the least
I need to cover paper at 1:2 or 1:3. You can use highly dilute
paper developers (dektol can be used at 1:8 so if you develop
only 2-3 8x10s you can use 1 oz dektol + 8 ounces of water.)
The only drawback to this is that while you just need to
extend the developing times to develop to completion, at
higher dilutions maximum blacks (the D-max of the paper) will
be less than if used at standard dilutions.

Haven't used Neutol though.


Do the same with the fixer. I think you will find that you do
not need a stop bath. Only one tray is needed to develop and fix.
No tired developer, and no tired fixer. Dan

"Dickless Cheney" wrote

Where does one find this chemical, as well as other photo chemicals?


There is more than one good source. I favor Photographer's
Formulary because they supply a very large selection of chemicals
and they do so sell each in small to large amounts.
There are five essential chemicals for film and paper developing.
The five are; metol, sodium sulfite, sodium carbonate, sodium or
potassium bromide, and sodium or ammonium thiosulfate.
For those new to Homebrew I suggest these quantities in the
above order; 100 grams, 1 lb, 1 lb, 100 grams, and 1 lb of the
sodium.
I suggest sodium thiosulfate anhydrous because it does not spoil
and is easy to mix fresh when ready to use. Dan