Comparing C-41 chemicals?

What do people feel about the various C-41 chemicals? I'm likely
just going to order the kit from Fotochem but would the Kodak chemicals be
better? I've been very pleased with the RA-4 kit from Fotochem so I'm
assuming the C-41 kit is equally good.

For those that mix thier own how long do the raw chemicals keep?
I'm guessing from looking at the formulas that I would need a more accurate
scale for this.

Thanks
Nick

Hi Nick,


I make my own C-41 and RA-4 chemistry. Remember, the CD-3 and CD-4 are
Kodak made. The rest are generic, anyways, and only the formulas may
differ.


I refrigerate the developers at about 40 degrees F. They keep for 1 - 2
months. I will use it if it is still clear. If it changes color I
throw it out. I generally try to follow the rule of use once (though
that may be two rolls developed one after the other) and throw it out,
in order to preserve quality. If I remember to have two rolls ready to
develop at any one time, I can get 8 rolls of 35 mm film from just over
a liter of developer, and 6 rolls of 120 film. Otherwise it it 4 and 3
respectively. Even at that, the homemade chemistry is cheaper than
store bought.


The raw chemicals seem to keep indefinitely. I have never had any CD-3
or CD-4 go bad on me. The only troublesome chemical is Triethanolamine
99%, which solidifies in my cool (55 degree F) basement, and which I
must warm up to make it liquid again.


The scale I use is an O-Haus triple beam balance (bought on eBay for
$35), good to 0.1 gram. It suffices. Maybe, someday for Christmas or
my birthday, I will get a digital balance (about ($100 from
Photographers' Formulary).


Francis A. Miniter


Nick Zentena wrote:

What do people feel about the various C-41 chemicals? I'm likely
just going to order the kit from Fotochem but would the Kodak chemicals be
better? I've been very pleased with the RA-4 kit from Fotochem so I'm
assuming the C-41 kit is equally good.

For those that mix thier own how long do the raw chemicals keep?
I'm guessing from looking at the formulas that I would need a more accurate
scale for this.

Thanks
Nick

Francis A. Miniter wrote:

The raw chemicals seem to keep indefinitely. I have never had any CD-3
or CD-4 go bad on me.

Does anyone know where to get raw chemicals for C-41 in Europe?

Ralf

--
Ralf R. Radermacher - DL9KCG - Köln/Cologne, Germany
private homepage: http://www.fotoralf.de
manual cameras and photo galleries - updated March 30, 2004
Contarex - Kiev 60 - Horizon 202 - P6 mount lenses

Francis A. Miniter wrote:
Hi Nick,


I make my own C-41 and RA-4 chemistry. Remember, the CD-3 and CD-4 are
Kodak made. The rest are generic, anyways, and only the formulas may
differ.


I refrigerate the developers at about 40 degrees F. They keep for 1 - 2
months. I will use it if it is still clear. If it changes color I
throw it out. I generally try to follow the rule of use once (though
that may be two rolls developed one after the other) and throw it out,
in order to preserve quality. If I remember to have two rolls ready to
develop at any one time, I can get 8 rolls of 35 mm film from just over
a liter of developer, and 6 rolls of 120 film. Otherwise it it 4 and 3
respectively. Even at that, the homemade chemistry is cheaper than
store bought.

I was thinking of using it one shot made up just before use. I re-read the
Kodak C-41 manual a few nights ago and they mention that if you use the
developer in a rotary tube it should be tossed after one use. What I was
hoping for was one batch of C-41 film and then a couple rolls of
crossprocessed. Have to see how it works.

The formulas I looked at don't seem too bad if I go with a bleach and a
separate fix. The fixer formula mentions using 244ml of Kodak flexicolor
fixer. I assume they mean 244 of concentrate?





The scale I use is an O-Haus triple beam balance (bought on eBay for
$35), good to 0.1 gram. It suffices. Maybe, someday for Christmas or
my birthday, I will get a digital balance (about ($100 from
Photographers' Formulary).


I've been mostly using spoons for B&W. They are repeatable but I doubt
accurate enough for the small amounts in the formulas.

Thanks
Nick

"Ralf R. Radermacher" wrote in message
...
Francis A. Miniter wrote:

The raw chemicals seem to keep indefinitely. I have never had any CD-3
or CD-4 go bad on me.

Does anyone know where to get raw chemicals for C-41 in Europe?

Ralf

Ralf,

Brenner has many of them. But not cheap (what is here;~). Photographers
Formulary will ship internationally anything that's not hazardous. Art
Craft will as well. If you need something special from the USA, ping me
here and I'll see if I can help. I work in the Kaiserslautern area so to
Koeln, it's not far to send.

Jim



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Nick Zentena wrote:

Francis A. Miniter wrote:


Hi Nick,


I make my own C-41 and RA-4 chemistry. Remember, the CD-3 and CD-4 are
Kodak made. The rest are generic, anyways, and only the formulas may
differ.


I refrigerate the developers at about 40 degrees F. They keep for 1 - 2
months. I will use it if it is still clear. If it changes color I
throw it out. I generally try to follow the rule of use once (though
that may be two rolls developed one after the other) and throw it out,
in order to preserve quality. If I remember to have two rolls ready to
develop at any one time, I can get 8 rolls of 35 mm film from just over
a liter of developer, and 6 rolls of 120 film. Otherwise it it 4 and 3
respectively. Even at that, the homemade chemistry is cheaper than
store bought.



I was thinking of using it one shot made up just before use. I re-read the
Kodak C-41 manual a few nights ago and they mention that if you use the
developer in a rotary tube it should be tossed after one use. What I was
hoping for was one batch of C-41 film and then a couple rolls of
crossprocessed. Have to see how it works.

The formulas I looked at don't seem too bad if I go with a bleach and a
separate fix. The fixer formula mentions using 244ml of Kodak flexicolor
fixer. I assume they mean 244 of concentrate?




I believe so. I use reels in a steel tank. By the way, the bleach or
bleach-fix is reuseable for a substantial period of time. You can get
about 12 rolls out of it without worry and it will not decompose at room
termperature (for me, 55 degrees) for even more than six months.




The scale I use is an O-Haus triple beam balance (bought on eBay for
$35), good to 0.1 gram. It suffices. Maybe, someday for Christmas or
my birthday, I will get a digital balance (about ($100 from
Photographers' Formulary).




I've been mostly using spoons for B&W. They are repeatable but I doubt
accurate enough for the small amounts in the formulas.

Thanks
Nick


Agreed.


Francis A. Miniter

Ralf R. Radermacher wrote:

Francis A. Miniter wrote:

The raw chemicals seem to keep indefinitely. I have never had any CD-3
or CD-4 go bad on me.

Does anyone know where to get raw chemicals for C-41 in Europe?

Ralf


hi,

you can try www.prophot.com. It's a shop in Paris.

waiming

Nick Zentena wrote: I was thinking of using it one shot made up just before
use. I re-read the Kodak C-41 manual a few nights ago and they mention that if
you use the developer in a rotary tube it should be tossed after one use. What
I was hoping for was one batch of C-41 film and then a couple rolls of
crossprocessed.

Nick, the toss after one use is most critical for your developer. Most rotary
tubes are thought of as being for single-shot chemicals as you use such small
volumes per roll or sheet that you have exhausted the capacity of that
developer. In addition, you are exposing a large surface area of chemistry to
air while the tube or drum rotates, causing greater oxidation that if the
solution was in a small tank like a Paterson or Nikor.


Bernie

Jazztptman wrote:
Nick Zentena wrote: I was thinking of using it one shot made up just before
use. I re-read the Kodak C-41 manual a few nights ago and they mention that if
you use the developer in a rotary tube it should be tossed after one use. What
I was hoping for was one batch of C-41 film and then a couple rolls of
crossprocessed.

Nick, the toss after one use is most critical for your developer. Most rotary
tubes are thought of as being for single-shot chemicals as you use such small
volumes per roll or sheet that you have exhausted the capacity of that
developer. In addition, you are exposing a large surface area of chemistry to
air while the tube or drum rotates, causing greater oxidation that if the
solution was in a small tank like a Paterson or Nikor.


Thanks. From the sounds of it I'd be using the amount of film that almost
equals the capacity of the developer so it's not like I'll be wasting too
much.

Nick

Francis A. Miniter wrote:


I believe so. I use reels in a steel tank. By the way, the bleach or
bleach-fix is reuseable for a substantial period of time. You can get
about 12 rolls out of it without worry and it will not decompose at room
termperature (for me, 55 degrees) for even more than six months.

I've thought of just doing it inversion. It would make temperture control
less an issue but the tanks use alot more chemicals. I did a test last
night. I preheated a tank then put 700ml of water in it at the right temp.
After two minutes it was still right at the same temperture. I'm hoping that
on the motorbase the tank will be okay. Plus it's the only way I could even
try 4x5 colour processing. The bleach had seemed the most expensive part so
the longer life is a positive.



Thanks
Nick