what light meter do you use?

Ed Margiewicz wrote:

Hello everyone,
I have been in a bit of a slump lately and would like for your help. Many
of my slides are either over exposed or under exposed. I have been shooting
with large format for about 4 years now (4x5 arca swiss with various lenses
from 90mm to 400mm using color transparencies, velvia and kodak vs).
Initially I used a polaris meter measuring reflective light of the scene ( I
forgot to mention I photograph primarily nature and landscapes). Then I
bought a pentax spot meter because it seemed that many of the professionals
used and liked it. This is when my problems started. Except for a neutral
or medium green to meter off of for a 18% grey I find it difficult to meter
off of other colors in a scene and how to determine the amount of exposure
compensation is required.

Well, I'd suggest you meter off the gray card with
a spot meter.

Normally I meter the area I want to have detail as a
highlight and then the shadow area and average the
readings. You have to remember you only have 5&1/2
stops with transparancy film so placement of
highlights and shadows where you want detail is
critical.

I also usually shoot 35mm at the same time and so
also get an average reading with the SLR. It usually
agrees pretty well with my spot meter readings.
FWIW, bracketing is a way of life with transparencies.
But usually I bracket one exposure 1/2 stop over my
calculated exposure. No need for umpteen bracketing.
I think properly exposing transparencies is largely a
matter of experience. Sudy the results you get under
various lighting and make copious exposure notes. Over
time you'll use less film.


Now I use both meters and get two different readings. This leaves me to
bracketing my exposures but this is getting kind of expensive with 4x5. I
carry a grey card with me and often meter off this. But this too has given
some disappointing results. I even metered each color on the macbeth color
chart against a grey card to determine the exposure compensation for each
color but this does not work all the time. It's getting pretty frustrating
especially after getting back from a distant photo trip and loosing some
nice opportunities because of my lack of skill in determining correct
exposure.

I would like to ask several questions. Which light meter you use? If it is
a spot meter what is your technique? I guess if it is a reflective type
meter what is your technique (i.e., different readings and averaging? etc).
Do you know of sources I can study up on? Thanks for your help.

Best Regards,
Ed Margiewicz
www.tranquilimages.com

Ed Margiewicz wrote:

Hello everyone,
I have been in a bit of a slump lately and would like for your help. Many
of my slides are either over exposed or under exposed. I have been shooting
with large format for about 4 years now (4x5 arca swiss with various lenses
from 90mm to 400mm using color transparencies, velvia and kodak vs).
Initially I used a polaris meter measuring reflective light of the scene ( I
forgot to mention I photograph primarily nature and landscapes). Then I
bought a pentax spot meter because it seemed that many of the professionals
used and liked it. This is when my problems started. Except for a neutral
or medium green to meter off of for a 18% grey I find it difficult to meter
off of other colors in a scene and how to determine the amount of exposure
compensation is required.

Well, I'd suggest you meter off the gray card with
a spot meter.

Normally I meter the area I want to have detail as a
highlight and then the shadow area and average the
readings. You have to remember you only have 5&1/2
stops with transparancy film so placement of
highlights and shadows where you want detail is
critical.

I also usually shoot 35mm at the same time and so
also get an average reading with the SLR. It usually
agrees pretty well with my spot meter readings.
FWIW, bracketing is a way of life with transparencies.
But usually I bracket one exposure 1/2 stop over my
calculated exposure. No need for umpteen bracketing.
I think properly exposing transparencies is largely a
matter of experience. Sudy the results you get under
various lighting and make copious exposure notes. Over
time you'll use less film.


Now I use both meters and get two different readings. This leaves me to
bracketing my exposures but this is getting kind of expensive with 4x5. I
carry a grey card with me and often meter off this. But this too has given
some disappointing results. I even metered each color on the macbeth color
chart against a grey card to determine the exposure compensation for each
color but this does not work all the time. It's getting pretty frustrating
especially after getting back from a distant photo trip and loosing some
nice opportunities because of my lack of skill in determining correct
exposure.

I would like to ask several questions. Which light meter you use? If it is
a spot meter what is your technique? I guess if it is a reflective type
meter what is your technique (i.e., different readings and averaging? etc).
Do you know of sources I can study up on? Thanks for your help.

Best Regards,
Ed Margiewicz
www.tranquilimages.com

Ed Margiewicz wrote:

Hello everyone,
I have been in a bit of a slump lately and would like for your help. Many
of my slides are either over exposed or under exposed. I have been shooting
with large format for about 4 years now (4x5 arca swiss with various lenses
from 90mm to 400mm using color transparencies, velvia and kodak vs).
Initially I used a polaris meter measuring reflective light of the scene ( I
forgot to mention I photograph primarily nature and landscapes). Then I
bought a pentax spot meter because it seemed that many of the professionals
used and liked it. This is when my problems started. Except for a neutral
or medium green to meter off of for a 18% grey I find it difficult to meter
off of other colors in a scene and how to determine the amount of exposure
compensation is required.

Well, I'd suggest you meter off the gray card with
a spot meter.

Normally I meter the area I want to have detail as a
highlight and then the shadow area and average the
readings. You have to remember you only have 5&1/2
stops with transparancy film so placement of
highlights and shadows where you want detail is
critical.

I also usually shoot 35mm at the same time and so
also get an average reading with the SLR. It usually
agrees pretty well with my spot meter readings.
FWIW, bracketing is a way of life with transparencies.
But usually I bracket one exposure 1/2 stop over my
calculated exposure. No need for umpteen bracketing.
I think properly exposing transparencies is largely a
matter of experience. Sudy the results you get under
various lighting and make copious exposure notes. Over
time you'll use less film.


Now I use both meters and get two different readings. This leaves me to
bracketing my exposures but this is getting kind of expensive with 4x5. I
carry a grey card with me and often meter off this. But this too has given
some disappointing results. I even metered each color on the macbeth color
chart against a grey card to determine the exposure compensation for each
color but this does not work all the time. It's getting pretty frustrating
especially after getting back from a distant photo trip and loosing some
nice opportunities because of my lack of skill in determining correct
exposure.

I would like to ask several questions. Which light meter you use? If it is
a spot meter what is your technique? I guess if it is a reflective type
meter what is your technique (i.e., different readings and averaging? etc).
Do you know of sources I can study up on? Thanks for your help.

Best Regards,
Ed Margiewicz
www.tranquilimages.com

Hello everyone,
I have been in a bit of a slump lately and would like for your help. Many
of my slides are either over exposed or under exposed. I have been shooting
with large format for about 4 years now (4x5 arca swiss with various lenses
from 90mm to 400mm using color transparencies, velvia and kodak vs).
Initially I used a polaris meter measuring reflective light of the scene ( I
forgot to mention I photograph primarily nature and landscapes). Then I
bought a pentax spot meter because it seemed that many of the professionals
used and liked it. This is when my problems started. Except for a neutral
or medium green to meter off of for a 18% grey I find it difficult to meter
off of other colors in a scene and how to determine the amount of exposure
compensation is required.

Now I use both meters and get two different readings. This leaves me to
bracketing my exposures but this is getting kind of expensive with 4x5. I
carry a grey card with me and often meter off this. But this too has given
some disappointing results. I even metered each color on the macbeth color
chart against a grey card to determine the exposure compensation for each
color but this does not work all the time. It's getting pretty frustrating
especially after getting back from a distant photo trip and loosing some
nice opportunities because of my lack of skill in determining correct
exposure.

I would like to ask several questions. Which light meter you use? If it is
a spot meter what is your technique? I guess if it is a reflective type
meter what is your technique (i.e., different readings and averaging? etc).
Do you know of sources I can study up on? Thanks for your help.

Best Regards,
Ed Margiewicz
www.tranquilimages.com

I use a Pentax spot meter. I do carry a gray card, and will meter off that
if convenient. More often I look for an area in the frame that is an
imporatnt Zone III value - should print as dark shadow with detail (not just
dark shadow or black). I meter on this, and then adjust the aperature or
shutter to close it two stops. If the scene seems contrasty, I will also
try to evaluate the bright end of the spectrum to see what I may lose and/or
consider changing development time.
"Ed Margiewicz" wrote in message
...
Hello everyone,
I have been in a bit of a slump lately and would like for your help. Many
of my slides are either over exposed or under exposed. I have been
shooting
with large format for about 4 years now (4x5 arca swiss with various
lenses
from 90mm to 400mm using color transparencies, velvia and kodak vs).
Initially I used a polaris meter measuring reflective light of the scene
( I
forgot to mention I photograph primarily nature and landscapes). Then I
bought a pentax spot meter because it seemed that many of the
professionals
used and liked it. This is when my problems started. Except for a
neutral
or medium green to meter off of for a 18% grey I find it difficult to
meter
off of other colors in a scene and how to determine the amount of exposure
compensation is required.

Now I use both meters and get two different readings. This leaves me to
bracketing my exposures but this is getting kind of expensive with 4x5. I
carry a grey card with me and often meter off this. But this too has given
some disappointing results. I even metered each color on the macbeth color
chart against a grey card to determine the exposure compensation for each
color but this does not work all the time. It's getting pretty
frustrating
especially after getting back from a distant photo trip and loosing some
nice opportunities because of my lack of skill in determining correct
exposure.

I would like to ask several questions. Which light meter you use? If it
is
a spot meter what is your technique? I guess if it is a reflective type
meter what is your technique (i.e., different readings and averaging?
etc).
Do you know of sources I can study up on? Thanks for your help.

Best Regards,
Ed Margiewicz
www.tranquilimages.com

I use a Pentax spot meter. I do carry a gray card, and will meter off that
if convenient. More often I look for an area in the frame that is an
imporatnt Zone III value - should print as dark shadow with detail (not just
dark shadow or black). I meter on this, and then adjust the aperature or
shutter to close it two stops. If the scene seems contrasty, I will also
try to evaluate the bright end of the spectrum to see what I may lose and/or
consider changing development time.
"Ed Margiewicz" wrote in message
...
Hello everyone,
I have been in a bit of a slump lately and would like for your help. Many
of my slides are either over exposed or under exposed. I have been
shooting
with large format for about 4 years now (4x5 arca swiss with various
lenses
from 90mm to 400mm using color transparencies, velvia and kodak vs).
Initially I used a polaris meter measuring reflective light of the scene
( I
forgot to mention I photograph primarily nature and landscapes). Then I
bought a pentax spot meter because it seemed that many of the
professionals
used and liked it. This is when my problems started. Except for a
neutral
or medium green to meter off of for a 18% grey I find it difficult to
meter
off of other colors in a scene and how to determine the amount of exposure
compensation is required.

Now I use both meters and get two different readings. This leaves me to
bracketing my exposures but this is getting kind of expensive with 4x5. I
carry a grey card with me and often meter off this. But this too has given
some disappointing results. I even metered each color on the macbeth color
chart against a grey card to determine the exposure compensation for each
color but this does not work all the time. It's getting pretty
frustrating
especially after getting back from a distant photo trip and loosing some
nice opportunities because of my lack of skill in determining correct
exposure.

I would like to ask several questions. Which light meter you use? If it
is
a spot meter what is your technique? I guess if it is a reflective type
meter what is your technique (i.e., different readings and averaging?
etc).
Do you know of sources I can study up on? Thanks for your help.

Best Regards,
Ed Margiewicz
www.tranquilimages.com

Ed Margiewicz wrote:
Hello everyone, I have been in a bit of a slump lately and would like
for your help. Many of my slides are either over exposed or under
exposed.

Is your shutter working properly? It _might be_ that your exposure meter
is correct and your shutter is letting you down. Because if the meter were
not working properly, I would expect _all_ your transparancies to be over,
or under, exposed, but yours are erratic.

The other possibilities include erractic processing, an erratic meter, or
an erratic meter operator.

I have been shooting with large format for about 4 years now (4x5 arca
swiss with various lenses from 90mm to 400mm using color
transparencies, velvia and kodak vs). Initially I used a polaris meter
measuring reflective light of the scene ( I forgot to mention I
photograph primarily nature and landscapes). Then I bought a pentax
spot meter because it seemed that many of the professionals used and
liked it. This is when my problems started. Except for a neutral or
medium green to meter off of for a 18% grey I find it difficult to
meter off of other colors in a scene and how to determine the amount of
exposure compensation is required.

Did you buy the meter new? The older Pentax meters had great reliability
problems. Fred Picker had a lot of trouble with them. I only had one (the
model called the 1/21), and it worked perfectly when it worked, but at
other times, it would give no reading at all. I replaced it with a Pentax
Digital (modified by Zone VI) and it worked perfectly, though it drifted
in the course of about 10 years and I had it recalibrated by Zone VI. I
now check it from time to time and it does not drift much anymore, but
perhaps that is because I do not fly with it in airplanes much anymore.

Now I use both meters and get two different readings.

Ah! Yes! As the late J.C. said, you cannot serve two masters for you will
love one and hate the other. Similarly for light meters. Each model meter
has different color sensitivity so unless you use light when testing
meters identical in color (preferably daylight or something like that),
you will probably not get meters to match unless you are metering a grey
card. I have a light meter in each of my 35mm cameras, the Zone VI Digital
Pentax spotmeter, and a LunaPro-F. Now if I meter the same grey card in
direct sunlight on a cloudless day, filling the frame (or the one degree
spot), the meters actually match within one stop. But if I measure colored
objects, or pick a day place where I get light only from the sky but not
direct sunlight, they differ by more, some by considerably more, than two
stops. Just the color.

This leaves me to bracketing my exposures but this is getting kind of
expensive with 4x5. I carry a grey card with me and often meter off
this. But this too has given some disappointing results. I even metered
each color on the macbeth color chart against a grey card to determine
the exposure compensation for each color but this does not work all the
time. It's getting pretty frustrating especially after getting back
from a distant photo trip and loosing some nice opportunities because
of my lack of skill in determining correct exposure.

I would like to ask several questions. Which light meter you use?

For 4x5 I use the Zone VI Pentax Digital. The only time when I use the
LunaPro-F is when making posed shots with electronic flash, and I then use
that in incident flash mode.

If it is a spot meter what is your technique?

For black and white, which is what I mostly do, I measure the darkest area
where I want detail, and usually put it on Zone III. I also measure the
lightest area and see if it falls in Zone VIII or a bit lower. If so, I
just shoot it.

If the lightest area is higher than Zone VIII, I have to compromise. If it
is only slightly higher, I consider if I can reduce the shadow area
exposure a little. I can always use a different paper grade (or filter)
when printing. If it is much higher than Zone VIII, I will have to give up
something. Sometimes, I do not shoot at all. Sometimes, I decide to let
either the highlights or the shadows take a beating. I do not normally do
zone system contractions because they always come out boring for me.

I guess if it is a reflective type meter what is your technique (i.e.,
different readings and averaging? etc).

IMAO, averaging the readings from a spot meter is always a mistake. You
have to decide where the most critical area of the image must be exposed
and expose for that. That is what I do. I then check the shadows and
highlights to make sure it will all fall on the film where I can print it.
For transparancies, it must all fall where the transparancy will look good.

Do you know of sources I can study up on? Thanks for your help.

Su Ansel Adams' book, "The Negative."

--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
/V\ Registered Machine 241939.
/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org
^^-^^ 06:55:00 up 10 days, 9:48, 4 users, load average: 4.27, 4.21, 4.19

Ed Margiewicz wrote:
Hello everyone, I have been in a bit of a slump lately and would like
for your help. Many of my slides are either over exposed or under
exposed.

Is your shutter working properly? It _might be_ that your exposure meter
is correct and your shutter is letting you down. Because if the meter were
not working properly, I would expect _all_ your transparancies to be over,
or under, exposed, but yours are erratic.

The other possibilities include erractic processing, an erratic meter, or
an erratic meter operator.

I have been shooting with large format for about 4 years now (4x5 arca
swiss with various lenses from 90mm to 400mm using color
transparencies, velvia and kodak vs). Initially I used a polaris meter
measuring reflective light of the scene ( I forgot to mention I
photograph primarily nature and landscapes). Then I bought a pentax
spot meter because it seemed that many of the professionals used and
liked it. This is when my problems started. Except for a neutral or
medium green to meter off of for a 18% grey I find it difficult to
meter off of other colors in a scene and how to determine the amount of
exposure compensation is required.

Did you buy the meter new? The older Pentax meters had great reliability
problems. Fred Picker had a lot of trouble with them. I only had one (the
model called the 1/21), and it worked perfectly when it worked, but at
other times, it would give no reading at all. I replaced it with a Pentax
Digital (modified by Zone VI) and it worked perfectly, though it drifted
in the course of about 10 years and I had it recalibrated by Zone VI. I
now check it from time to time and it does not drift much anymore, but
perhaps that is because I do not fly with it in airplanes much anymore.

Now I use both meters and get two different readings.

Ah! Yes! As the late J.C. said, you cannot serve two masters for you will
love one and hate the other. Similarly for light meters. Each model meter
has different color sensitivity so unless you use light when testing
meters identical in color (preferably daylight or something like that),
you will probably not get meters to match unless you are metering a grey
card. I have a light meter in each of my 35mm cameras, the Zone VI Digital
Pentax spotmeter, and a LunaPro-F. Now if I meter the same grey card in
direct sunlight on a cloudless day, filling the frame (or the one degree
spot), the meters actually match within one stop. But if I measure colored
objects, or pick a day place where I get light only from the sky but not
direct sunlight, they differ by more, some by considerably more, than two
stops. Just the color.

This leaves me to bracketing my exposures but this is getting kind of
expensive with 4x5. I carry a grey card with me and often meter off
this. But this too has given some disappointing results. I even metered
each color on the macbeth color chart against a grey card to determine
the exposure compensation for each color but this does not work all the
time. It's getting pretty frustrating especially after getting back
from a distant photo trip and loosing some nice opportunities because
of my lack of skill in determining correct exposure.

I would like to ask several questions. Which light meter you use?

For 4x5 I use the Zone VI Pentax Digital. The only time when I use the
LunaPro-F is when making posed shots with electronic flash, and I then use
that in incident flash mode.

If it is a spot meter what is your technique?

For black and white, which is what I mostly do, I measure the darkest area
where I want detail, and usually put it on Zone III. I also measure the
lightest area and see if it falls in Zone VIII or a bit lower. If so, I
just shoot it.

If the lightest area is higher than Zone VIII, I have to compromise. If it
is only slightly higher, I consider if I can reduce the shadow area
exposure a little. I can always use a different paper grade (or filter)
when printing. If it is much higher than Zone VIII, I will have to give up
something. Sometimes, I do not shoot at all. Sometimes, I decide to let
either the highlights or the shadows take a beating. I do not normally do
zone system contractions because they always come out boring for me.

I guess if it is a reflective type meter what is your technique (i.e.,
different readings and averaging? etc).

IMAO, averaging the readings from a spot meter is always a mistake. You
have to decide where the most critical area of the image must be exposed
and expose for that. That is what I do. I then check the shadows and
highlights to make sure it will all fall on the film where I can print it.
For transparancies, it must all fall where the transparancy will look good.

Do you know of sources I can study up on? Thanks for your help.

Su Ansel Adams' book, "The Negative."

--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
/V\ Registered Machine 241939.
/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org
^^-^^ 06:55:00 up 10 days, 9:48, 4 users, load average: 4.27, 4.21, 4.19

Now I use both meters and get two different readings. This leaves me to
bracketing my exposures but this is getting kind of expensive with 4x5. I
carry a grey card with me and often meter off this. But this too has given
some disappointing results. I even metered each color on the macbeth color
chart against a grey card to determine the exposure compensation for each
color but this does not work all the time.

This seems like a recipe for disaster. Two different meters, averaging
between them, bracketing (based on the average I assume) while also trying
to adjust exposures to compensate for different colors seems so complex and
involves so much room for error that it would almost certainly lead to the
inconsistent results you're getting. I'd suggest using only one meter. I'm
not familiar with the Polaris meter but which one you select doesn't seem
critical just so it works properly and you know how to use it. Then I'd
forget about trying to compensate for different colors. There are so many
variables involved with that (different hues of the same color, different
proportions of different colors in every scene, etc.) that it would seem
almost impossible to consistently make the correct adjustments. If you were
really hung up on color compensation you could let Calumet modify your
Pentax meter. One of the modifications made is to change the meter to
compensate for the sensitivity of the meter to different colors but this is
fairly expensive, about $200 IIRC, and I'm not sure there's a consensus that
it actually does what it is supposed to do with all films.

I use the modified Pentax spot meter but I don't use slide film so I can't
make any suggestions for a particular method of metering. FWIW, it's my
understanding that slide film is a problem with any scene having a contrast
range of more than 5 stops between the darkest important area and the
brightest important area so maybe part of your problem is just that you're
trying to get the film to do something it won't do, i.e. provide good detail
in both the darkest important area and the brightest important area when the
difference between them exceeds 5 stops (I'm assuming that you either don't
make prints at all or if you do you don't make them yourself so that you
aren't able to use contrast reducing masks to deal with this problem).

For about $5 Calumet will sell you a zone system sticker to put on your
Pentax meter. I have one on my meter and find it very useful, not just for
using the zone system which you don't necessarily need to do if you don't
use it already but also just for seeing easilty and quickly how great a
difference there is between the darkest and brightest important areas in the
scene.

It would also be a good idea to have your shutter speeds checked by a
competent repair person if you don't own your own shutter speed testing
equipment. One of the problems with large format photography is the fact
that we don't have focal plane shutters and most of us use three, four, or
more different lenses, some of which are almost certain to have differences
at some speeds between the indicated speed and the actual speed. When I
checked my five lenses (all relatively new) a couple years ago I found
differences between the indicated speed and the actual speed in several of
them. And the differences weren't consistent, at some speeds they would be
under and at some speeds they would be over.

As a last resort, if nothing else works you might consider switching to an
incident light meter and reading the chapter in Phil Davis' book "Beyond the
Zone System" on how to use that kind of meter. Several people I know who use
slide film use an incident meter and the methods recommended by Phil with
excellent results.

If you want to continue using your
"Ed Margiewicz" wrote in message
...
Hello everyone,
I have been in a bit of a slump lately and would like for your help. Many
of my slides are either over exposed or under exposed. I have been
shooting
with large format for about 4 years now (4x5 arca swiss with various
lenses
from 90mm to 400mm using color transparencies, velvia and kodak vs).
Initially I used a polaris meter measuring reflective light of the scene
( I
forgot to mention I photograph primarily nature and landscapes). Then I
bought a pentax spot meter because it seemed that many of the
professionals
used and liked it. This is when my problems started. Except for a
neutral
or medium green to meter off of for a 18% grey I find it difficult to
meter
off of other colors in a scene and how to determine the amount of exposure
compensation is required.

Now I use both meters and get two different readings. This leaves me to
bracketing my exposures but this is getting kind of expensive with 4x5. I
carry a grey card with me and often meter off this. But this too has given
some disappointing results. I even metered each color on the macbeth color
chart against a grey card to determine the exposure compensation for each
color but this does not work all the time. It's getting pretty
frustrating
especially after getting back from a distant photo trip and loosing some
nice opportunities because of my lack of skill in determining correct
exposure.

I would like to ask several questions. Which light meter you use? If it
is
a spot meter what is your technique? I guess if it is a reflective type
meter what is your technique (i.e., different readings and averaging?
etc).
Do you know of sources I can study up on? Thanks for your help.

Best Regards,
Ed Margiewicz
www.tranquilimages.com

On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 20:47:28 -0800, "Ed Margiewicz"
wrote:

Hello everyone,
I have been in a bit of a slump lately and would like for your help. Many
of my slides are either over exposed or under exposed.

snip

I would like to ask several questions. Which light meter you use? If it is
a spot meter what is your technique? I guess if it is a reflective type
meter what is your technique (i.e., different readings and averaging? etc).
Do you know of sources I can study up on? Thanks for your help.

For slides, I use an incident meter and adjust exposure according to
the subject -- increasing exposure for scenes with important detail
in dark areas, and decreasing exposure for scenes with important
detail in highlight areas.

To learn metering technique, I'd recommend experimenting with Polaroid
B&W film. Polaroid B&W materials have about the same exposure
latitude and range as transparency film, and provide "real time"
feedback. Once you establish an effective metering techinique with
Polaroid, it will apply equally well to color transparency film.

You might also be able to practice metering with a digital camera,
especially one that has a brightness histogram feature. If you
already have such a camera it might be a cheaper alternative to
Polaroid.

Chris Ellinger
Ann Arbor, MI