What's the best $30 digital camera (for pano wheel)?

I shoot a lot of panoramas ( http://www.templetons.com/brad/pano/ )
Using a variety of techiques. But some times because the platform
is moving or a lot of people or cars are moving, you just can't
shoot a panorama over the period of time it typically takes. You can
do one-shot panos with fish-eyes and curved mirrors, but these are not
hi res. (I do very hi-res, such as 1/4 gigapixel.) I have also shot
some from a helicopter ( http://www.templetons.com/brad/pano/sfba.html )
but it was lots of work to get this to work at all.

So one possible solution, build a wheel of cheap cameras. Get from
12 to 16 cameras and arrange them in a circle, and put them on remote
control so you can fire them off at once. You would have some paralax
but I don't plan to shoot things that are really close. I plan to
shoot from the top of long poles, from kites, from planes etc.

So I see that older generation digital cameras, not viewed as being of
much value, will often sell for quite cheap, and the price keeps
dwindling. But getting 12 (landscape) or 16 (portrait) with the
typical 35mm-equiv 35mm focal length lens found on these cameras is
still daunting.

So I am looking for votes from people who have used some of these older
generation cameras on what cameras to possibly seek.

One would imagine the "disposable digital" found at Ritz might be
suitable but in fact it's only 2MP, and you pay $30 for 25 shots by the
time you are done. You also have to remove the cameras from the wheel,
which means re-aligning with each new batch. Plus no remote, I think.

Requirements a

a) Fixed focal length lens, as wide as possible. Generally that's
a 35mmEq of 35mm, though there have been some cameras at 28mm.
Fixed lenses are much better than zooms, though in a pinch a
zoom with a decent wide end (rare) could do the job.

b) A good lens, of course.

c) I think at least 3MP. What matters actually is the height. I
like my panoramas to be hi-res (3500 pixels on my 20D) but I
would like to see almost 2,000. 2MP would give me about 1,500
in portrait, and perhaps I can consider that.

d) Some means of remote control. Perhaps they will all go at once
from the same IR? Or USB remote control with a big hub is also
possible and might even be preferable if you can then suck down
the pictures so that memory is not an issue.

However, in a pinch, I can break-open these cameras and solder
wires onto the shutter release!

e) Enough memory to take a couple-dozen shots at full res, since
transfer will be a pain if I have to remove flash cards. USB
control, where I can wire them all one a giant hub, could make
this easier.

f) The kicker -- manual exposure mode. I want all shots at manual
exposure. Once again, USB control would be a winner.


I can buy them used on eBay, or another thought would be some brand
where refurbs could be bought in bulk from some supplier. However, if
I need 16 cameras, that restricts the cost. Might go 12 cameras in
landscape mode, or 12 cameras with 28mm equiv lens.
--
Visit my blog, "Brad Ideas" -- http://ideas.4brad.com

In article , says...

I shoot a lot of panoramas ( http://www.templetons.com/brad/pano/ )
Using a variety of techiques. But some times because the platform
is moving or a lot of people or cars are moving, you just can't
shoot a panorama over the period of time it typically takes. You can
do one-shot panos with fish-eyes and curved mirrors, but these are not
hi res. (I do very hi-res, such as 1/4 gigapixel.) I have also shot
some from a helicopter ( http://www.templetons.com/brad/pano/sfba.html )
but it was lots of work to get this to work at all.

So one possible solution, build a wheel of cheap cameras. Get from
12 to 16 cameras and arrange them in a circle, and put them on remote
control so you can fire them off at once. You would have some paralax
but I don't plan to shoot things that are really close. I plan to
shoot from the top of long poles, from kites, from planes etc.

So I see that older generation digital cameras, not viewed as being of
much value, will often sell for quite cheap, and the price keeps
dwindling. But getting 12 (landscape) or 16 (portrait) with the
typical 35mm-equiv 35mm focal length lens found on these cameras is
still daunting.

So I am looking for votes from people who have used some of these older
generation cameras on what cameras to possibly seek.

One would imagine the "disposable digital" found at Ritz might be
suitable but in fact it's only 2MP, and you pay $30 for 25 shots by the
time you are done. You also have to remove the cameras from the wheel,
which means re-aligning with each new batch. Plus no remote, I think.

Requirements a

a) Fixed focal length lens, as wide as possible. Generally that's
a 35mmEq of 35mm, though there have been some cameras at 28mm.
Fixed lenses are much better than zooms, though in a pinch a
zoom with a decent wide end (rare) could do the job.

b) A good lens, of course.

c) I think at least 3MP. What matters actually is the height. I
like my panoramas to be hi-res (3500 pixels on my 20D) but I
would like to see almost 2,000. 2MP would give me about 1,500
in portrait, and perhaps I can consider that.

d) Some means of remote control. Perhaps they will all go at once
from the same IR? Or USB remote control with a big hub is also
possible and might even be preferable if you can then suck down
the pictures so that memory is not an issue.

However, in a pinch, I can break-open these cameras and solder
wires onto the shutter release!

e) Enough memory to take a couple-dozen shots at full res, since
transfer will be a pain if I have to remove flash cards. USB
control, where I can wire them all one a giant hub, could make
this easier.

f) The kicker -- manual exposure mode. I want all shots at manual
exposure. Once again, USB control would be a winner.


I can buy them used on eBay, or another thought would be some brand
where refurbs could be bought in bulk from some supplier. However, if
I need 16 cameras, that restricts the cost. Might go 12 cameras in
landscape mode, or 12 cameras with 28mm equiv lens.
--
Visit my blog, "Brad Ideas" -- http://ideas.4brad.com

I know you are looking for a digital solution, but have you though about one
of the Globus film cameras? Most of the older models could be set to pull the
film past the slit aperture, or to rotate the camera around the film. Once
leveled, and set for rotation, they did a wonderful 360 pano. Used the other
way, on a moving cart, timed to the speed of the film's passing the slit, they
did a great static pano, as along the face of a very long building.

Just a thought - though not digital,
Hunt

In article , says...

I shoot a lot of panoramas ( http://www.templetons.com/brad/pano/ )
Using a variety of techiques. But some times because the platform
is moving or a lot of people or cars are moving, you just can't
shoot a panorama over the period of time it typically takes. You can
do one-shot panos with fish-eyes and curved mirrors, but these are not
hi res. (I do very hi-res, such as 1/4 gigapixel.) I have also shot
some from a helicopter ( http://www.templetons.com/brad/pano/sfba.html )
but it was lots of work to get this to work at all.

So one possible solution, build a wheel of cheap cameras. Get from
12 to 16 cameras and arrange them in a circle, and put them on remote
control so you can fire them off at once. You would have some paralax
but I don't plan to shoot things that are really close. I plan to
shoot from the top of long poles, from kites, from planes etc.

So I see that older generation digital cameras, not viewed as being of
much value, will often sell for quite cheap, and the price keeps
dwindling. But getting 12 (landscape) or 16 (portrait) with the
typical 35mm-equiv 35mm focal length lens found on these cameras is
still daunting.

So I am looking for votes from people who have used some of these older
generation cameras on what cameras to possibly seek.

One would imagine the "disposable digital" found at Ritz might be
suitable but in fact it's only 2MP, and you pay $30 for 25 shots by the
time you are done. You also have to remove the cameras from the wheel,
which means re-aligning with each new batch. Plus no remote, I think.

Requirements a

a) Fixed focal length lens, as wide as possible. Generally that's
a 35mmEq of 35mm, though there have been some cameras at 28mm.
Fixed lenses are much better than zooms, though in a pinch a
zoom with a decent wide end (rare) could do the job.

b) A good lens, of course.

c) I think at least 3MP. What matters actually is the height. I
like my panoramas to be hi-res (3500 pixels on my 20D) but I
would like to see almost 2,000. 2MP would give me about 1,500
in portrait, and perhaps I can consider that.

d) Some means of remote control. Perhaps they will all go at once
from the same IR? Or USB remote control with a big hub is also
possible and might even be preferable if you can then suck down
the pictures so that memory is not an issue.

However, in a pinch, I can break-open these cameras and solder
wires onto the shutter release!

e) Enough memory to take a couple-dozen shots at full res, since
transfer will be a pain if I have to remove flash cards. USB
control, where I can wire them all one a giant hub, could make
this easier.

f) The kicker -- manual exposure mode. I want all shots at manual
exposure. Once again, USB control would be a winner.


I can buy them used on eBay, or another thought would be some brand
where refurbs could be bought in bulk from some supplier. However, if
I need 16 cameras, that restricts the cost. Might go 12 cameras in
landscape mode, or 12 cameras with 28mm equiv lens.
--
Visit my blog, "Brad Ideas" -- http://ideas.4brad.com

I know you are looking for a digital solution, but have you though about one
of the Globus film cameras? Most of the older models could be set to pull the
film past the slit aperture, or to rotate the camera around the film. Once
leveled, and set for rotation, they did a wonderful 360 pano. Used the other
way, on a moving cart, timed to the speed of the film's passing the slit, they
did a great static pano, as along the face of a very long building.

Just a thought - though not digital,
Hunt

In article , Hunt wrote:
I know you are looking for a digital solution, but have you though about one
of the Globus film cameras? Most of the older models could be set to pull the
film past the slit aperture, or to rotate the camera around the film. Once
leveled, and set for rotation, they did a wonderful 360 pano. Used the other
way, on a moving cart, timed to the speed of the film's passing the slit, they
did a great static pano, as along the face of a very long building.


You may have missed the part about wanting an instantaneous exposure,
because the camera is not on a stable platform (plane, helicopter, kite,
pole) etc. or there are many moving things in the picture (cars,
people.) The camera can't spin. I want the whole shot in a tiny
fraction of a second.

That's not going to work with a slit camera or scanning digital camera.

Of course my first thought in the old days was funsavers, which are
cheap, and hi-res. However, they don't tend to auto-wind nor do they
have an electronic shutter I can simultaneously trigger.

On the other hand, if I could get Olympus Stylus Epics for cheap, they
would be a fine camera, though there would be some downsides. You would
need to wait for a whole roll of shots to get out the picture, and you
would have to pay for processing and do a whole _mess_ of scanning.
--
Visit my blog, "Brad Ideas" -- http://ideas.4brad.com

Have you seen this software? It looks interesting.

http://www.short-media.com/review.php?r=257&p=1

Brad Templeton wrote:

I shoot a lot of panoramas ( http://www.templetons.com/brad/pano/ )
Using a variety of techiques. But some times because the platform
is moving or a lot of people or cars are moving, you just can't
shoot a panorama over the period of time it typically takes. You can
do one-shot panos with fish-eyes and curved mirrors, but these are not
hi res. (I do very hi-res, such as 1/4 gigapixel.) I have also shot
some from a helicopter ( http://www.templetons.com/brad/pano/sfba.html )
but it was lots of work to get this to work at all.

So one possible solution, build a wheel of cheap cameras. Get from
12 to 16 cameras and arrange them in a circle, and put them on remote
control so you can fire them off at once. You would have some paralax
but I don't plan to shoot things that are really close. I plan to
shoot from the top of long poles, from kites, from planes etc.

So I see that older generation digital cameras, not viewed as being of
much value, will often sell for quite cheap, and the price keeps
dwindling. But getting 12 (landscape) or 16 (portrait) with the
typical 35mm-equiv 35mm focal length lens found on these cameras is
still daunting.

So I am looking for votes from people who have used some of these older
generation cameras on what cameras to possibly seek.

One would imagine the "disposable digital" found at Ritz might be
suitable but in fact it's only 2MP, and you pay $30 for 25 shots by the
time you are done. You also have to remove the cameras from the wheel,
which means re-aligning with each new batch. Plus no remote, I think.

Requirements a

a) Fixed focal length lens, as wide as possible. Generally that's
a 35mmEq of 35mm, though there have been some cameras at 28mm.
Fixed lenses are much better than zooms, though in a pinch a
zoom with a decent wide end (rare) could do the job.

b) A good lens, of course.

c) I think at least 3MP. What matters actually is the height. I
like my panoramas to be hi-res (3500 pixels on my 20D) but I
would like to see almost 2,000. 2MP would give me about 1,500
in portrait, and perhaps I can consider that.

d) Some means of remote control. Perhaps they will all go at once
from the same IR? Or USB remote control with a big hub is also
possible and might even be preferable if you can then suck down
the pictures so that memory is not an issue.

However, in a pinch, I can break-open these cameras and solder
wires onto the shutter release!

e) Enough memory to take a couple-dozen shots at full res, since
transfer will be a pain if I have to remove flash cards. USB
control, where I can wire them all one a giant hub, could make
this easier.

f) The kicker -- manual exposure mode. I want all shots at manual
exposure. Once again, USB control would be a winner.

I can buy them used on eBay, or another thought would be some brand
where refurbs could be bought in bulk from some supplier. However, if
I need 16 cameras, that restricts the cost. Might go 12 cameras in
landscape mode, or 12 cameras with 28mm equiv lens.
--
Visit my blog, "Brad Ideas" -- http://ideas.4brad.com

Have you seen this software? It looks interesting.

http://www.short-media.com/review.php?r=257&p=1

Brad Templeton wrote:

I shoot a lot of panoramas ( http://www.templetons.com/brad/pano/ )
Using a variety of techiques. But some times because the platform
is moving or a lot of people or cars are moving, you just can't
shoot a panorama over the period of time it typically takes. You can
do one-shot panos with fish-eyes and curved mirrors, but these are not
hi res. (I do very hi-res, such as 1/4 gigapixel.) I have also shot
some from a helicopter ( http://www.templetons.com/brad/pano/sfba.html )
but it was lots of work to get this to work at all.

So one possible solution, build a wheel of cheap cameras. Get from
12 to 16 cameras and arrange them in a circle, and put them on remote
control so you can fire them off at once. You would have some paralax
but I don't plan to shoot things that are really close. I plan to
shoot from the top of long poles, from kites, from planes etc.

So I see that older generation digital cameras, not viewed as being of
much value, will often sell for quite cheap, and the price keeps
dwindling. But getting 12 (landscape) or 16 (portrait) with the
typical 35mm-equiv 35mm focal length lens found on these cameras is
still daunting.

So I am looking for votes from people who have used some of these older
generation cameras on what cameras to possibly seek.

One would imagine the "disposable digital" found at Ritz might be
suitable but in fact it's only 2MP, and you pay $30 for 25 shots by the
time you are done. You also have to remove the cameras from the wheel,
which means re-aligning with each new batch. Plus no remote, I think.

Requirements a

a) Fixed focal length lens, as wide as possible. Generally that's
a 35mmEq of 35mm, though there have been some cameras at 28mm.
Fixed lenses are much better than zooms, though in a pinch a
zoom with a decent wide end (rare) could do the job.

b) A good lens, of course.

c) I think at least 3MP. What matters actually is the height. I
like my panoramas to be hi-res (3500 pixels on my 20D) but I
would like to see almost 2,000. 2MP would give me about 1,500
in portrait, and perhaps I can consider that.

d) Some means of remote control. Perhaps they will all go at once
from the same IR? Or USB remote control with a big hub is also
possible and might even be preferable if you can then suck down
the pictures so that memory is not an issue.

However, in a pinch, I can break-open these cameras and solder
wires onto the shutter release!

e) Enough memory to take a couple-dozen shots at full res, since
transfer will be a pain if I have to remove flash cards. USB
control, where I can wire them all one a giant hub, could make
this easier.

f) The kicker -- manual exposure mode. I want all shots at manual
exposure. Once again, USB control would be a winner.

I can buy them used on eBay, or another thought would be some brand
where refurbs could be bought in bulk from some supplier. However, if
I need 16 cameras, that restricts the cost. Might go 12 cameras in
landscape mode, or 12 cameras with 28mm equiv lens.
--
Visit my blog, "Brad Ideas" -- http://ideas.4brad.com

I saw a website of a person doing that sort of thing....maybe someone can
help me remember it. By setting cameras in line he got a variety of
effects....including a scateboarder going off some steps into the air....and
stopping in mid-air....and the camera view went around him....the camera
seemed to move even though the scateboarder did not. Of course the camera
realy didn't move....it was a different camera in sequence. He got other
effects by doing just what you suggest.

Has anyone else seen that site? I go now to Google! If not back in an
hour....send the sniffer dogs.

Gene Palmiter wrote:

I saw a website of a person doing that sort of thing....maybe someone can
help me remember it. By setting cameras in line he got a variety of
effects....including a scateboarder going off some steps into the air....and
stopping in mid-air....and the camera view went around him....the camera
seemed to move even though the scateboarder did not. Of course the camera
realy didn't move....it was a different camera in sequence. He got other
effects by doing just what you suggest.

Has anyone else seen that site? I go now to Google! If not back in an
hour....send the sniffer dogs.



Well, Gene, we sent in the sniffer dogs... what'd they do? eat your
homework?

--
jer email reply - I am not a 'ten'

In article ,
Brad Templeton wrote:

One would imagine the "disposable digital" found at Ritz might be
suitable but in fact it's only 2MP, and you pay $30 for 25 shots by the
time you are done. You also have to remove the cameras from the wheel,
which means re-aligning with each new batch. Plus no remote, I think.

I would not be quite so quick to eliminate the disposable digital option
The hardware and firmware have been hacked and you can down-load the
pictures by USB.
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/11/12/2354206
http://cexx.org/dakota/
http://www.maushammer.com/systems/dakotadigital/DakotaDigital.html

This page describes the Hardware connections I would be
surprised if you couldn't hack an external shutter switch...
http://revjim.net/wiki/DakotaDigitalCamera

--
Michael
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~
NPC rights activist | Nameless Abominations are people too.

In article ,
Mr. M.J. Lush wrote:
In article ,
Brad Templeton wrote:

One would imagine the "disposable digital" found at Ritz might be
suitable but in fact it's only 2MP, and you pay $30 for 25 shots by the
time you are done. You also have to remove the cameras from the wheel,
which means re-aligning with each new batch. Plus no remote, I think.

I would not be quite so quick to eliminate the disposable digital option
The hardware and firmware have been hacked and you can down-load the
pictures by USB.
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/11/12/2354206
http://cexx.org/dakota/
http://www.maushammer.com/systems/dakotadigital/DakotaDigital.html

This page describes the Hardware connections I would be
surprised if you couldn't hack an external shutter switch...
http://revjim.net/wiki/DakotaDigitalCamera

Yes, I am aware of this. But it's just 2MP, and the lens is reportedly
unexciting to say the least. And don't forget the need for manual
exposure.

No, I'm more looking for the experiences of folks with the older
generation of what were once higher-end digicams, but now, because
they are only 3MP and prime lens, are cheap in the used market.
--
Let's return privacy to E-mail
http://www.templetons.com/brad/crypt.html