Killing Batteries

On Sun, 16 Feb 2014 18:11:28 -0500, nospam wrote:
: In article , Robert Coe
: wrote:
:
: I don't have time just now to slog through the rest of this thread, but has
: anybody asked whether the problem could be with your battery charger, rather
: than with the battery?
:
: they're non-rechargeable batteries.

Well, that's a new one on me. I've never heard of a non-rechargeable lithium
battery.

Bob

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 16 Feb 2014 18:11:28 -0500, nospam wrote:
: In article , Robert Coe
: wrote:
:
: I don't have time just now to slog through the rest of this thread, but has
: anybody asked whether the problem could be with your battery charger, rather
: than with the battery?
:
: they're non-rechargeable batteries.

Well, that's a new one on me. I've never heard of a non-rechargeable lithium
battery.

Commonplace. Typical watch batteries for example are nonrechargeable
lithium and have been ever since mercury became politically incorrect.

In article , Robert Coe
wrote:

Well, that's a new one on me. I've never heard of a non-rechargeable lithium
battery.

they've been around for at least 25 years and come in the usual sizes,
including aa and 9v.

look for them wherever you buy batteries.

http://www.energizer.com/batteries/p...ges/default.as
px

On 2014-02-17 03:37:49 +0000, Robert Coe said:

On Sun, 16 Feb 2014 18:11:28 -0500, nospam wrote:
: In article , Robert Coe
: wrote:
:
: I don't have time just now to slog through the rest of this thread, but has
: anybody asked whether the problem could be with your battery
charger, rather
: than with the battery?
:
: they're non-rechargeable batteries.

Well, that's a new one on me. I've never heard of a non-rechargeable lithium
battery.

Bob

I've been using Surefire non-rechargeable lithium batteries for years
(since 1994 anyway) in my Surefire flashlights. They are a Law
Enforcement favorite.
http://www.surefire.com/batteries.html

--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 2014-02-17 03:55:47 +0000, nospam said:

In article , Robert Coe
wrote:

Well, that's a new one on me. I've never heard of a non-rechargeable lithium
battery.

they've been around for at least 25 years and come in the usual sizes,
including aa and 9v.

....and more Surefire uses their proprietary 3V SF123A for their
flashlights, laser sights and other stuff.
http://www.surefire.com/batteries.html

look for them wherever you buy batteries.

http://www.energizer.com/batteries/p...ges/default.as
px


--
Regards,

Savageduck

On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 17:12:24 -0600, Dudley Hanks
wrote:

But, have you ever heard of a Canon A2 or HP PDA that is
powered by a lead acid battery? Your observation is
irrelevant to the issue.

Do the batteries die in the cold if they are *NOT* in the
devices?

NAB

Nab wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 17:12:24 -0600, Dudley Hanks
wrote:

But, have you ever heard of a Canon A2 or HP PDA that is
powered by a lead acid battery? Your observation is
irrelevant to the issue.

Do the batteries die in the cold if they are *NOT* in the
devices?

NAB



Good point ...

I haven't checked that out. As much as I hate to put that $
100 HP battery outside for a couple of hours, that might be
the best next step to take ...

Thanks for that slant.

Take Care,
Dudley

On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 21:32:46 -0600, Dudley Hanks
wrote:
: "J. Clarke" wrote:
: In article ,
: says...
:
: nospam wrote:
: In article , J. Clarke
: wrote:
:
: Remember that with a lithium battery, once the voltage goes below a
: certain level, a protective circuit kicks in that prevents the battery
: from being charged, effectively disabling the battery.
:
: no. the protective circuit kicks in so that it *won't* get to that
: point. that's why it's called a protective circuit.
:
: Nospam is wrong as usual. The protective circuit disables the battery
: from being charged because once a lithium battery discharges below a
: certain point there is a fair chance that it will catch fire or explode
: on charging (I don't mean "leak", I mean a big enough bang to bring down
: an airplane).
:
: however, if the protective circuit kicks in and the user neglects to
: recharge it, the battery will continue to self-discharge to the point
: where it can no longer be charged, and then the battery is disabled.
:
: Ahhh, now we're getting somewhere...
:
: I wasn't aware that the user should charge a battery within a
: short time of exposure to cold temps. So, it's not the temps
: that killed the HP batteries; rather, it was my taking too
: much time to put it on a charger...
:
: Does that sound right?
:
: No, it's letting the voltage get low enough to trigger the protective
: circuit, which happens a lot faster if the battery is cold.
:
: There is another issue with lithium ion batteries. If their temperature
: is cold enough, attempting a charge will destroy the battery--the
: protective circuit may have additional features to prevent charging at
: extreme low temperatures.
:
: You might want to read the wikipedia entry for "lithium-ion battery"
: which has a lot of good information.
:
:
:
:
: Thanks for the info. I'll give it a read.
:
: Given I'm more interested in capturing images than charging
: batteries, I've never worried about anything other than
: battery basics. But, with the problems I've had with this HP,
: and the replacement cost, I thought it a good idea to get a
: handle on this issue, especially since the ST-E2 uses a type
: of battery I've had problems with in the past.
:
:
: Your comment about the Li being able to bring down a plane
: remind me of what the guy at Battery World said when I took a
: couple of the HP batteries in for him to look at. He said he
: had a charger that could probably bring it back to life, but
: he didn't want to chance it since the battery polarity wasn't
: clearly indicated. And, if he hooked it up incorrectly, it
: would go off like a bomb.
:
: I thought he was joking. But, maybe he wasn't ...

It surprises me that a battery without its polarity clearly indicated could be
sold for use in Canada.

Bob

In article , Robert Coe
wrote:

: Your comment about the Li being able to bring down a plane
: remind me of what the guy at Battery World said when I took a
: couple of the HP batteries in for him to look at. He said he
: had a charger that could probably bring it back to life, but
: he didn't want to chance it since the battery polarity wasn't
: clearly indicated. And, if he hooked it up incorrectly, it
: would go off like a bomb.
:
: I thought he was joking. But, maybe he wasn't ...

It surprises me that a battery without its polarity clearly indicated could be
sold for use in Canada.

since lithium ion batteries only work in the devices for which they
were designed and have dedicated chargers, there's no need to mark the
polarity. they can't be connected in reverse, in either the device or
the charger.

look at some lithium ion batteries. it's very likely there are no
polarity markings at all and there is almost certainly more than two
contacts anyway, sometimes 5 or 6.

charging lithium ion batteries can be extremely dangerous if you don't
use the proper charger, especially if you just hook it up to a power
source. that would be *really* bad.

On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 15:10:45 -0500, nospam wrote:
: In article , Robert Coe
: wrote:
:
: : Your comment about the Li being able to bring down a plane
: : remind me of what the guy at Battery World said when I took a
: : couple of the HP batteries in for him to look at. He said he
: : had a charger that could probably bring it back to life, but
: : he didn't want to chance it since the battery polarity wasn't
: : clearly indicated. And, if he hooked it up incorrectly, it
: : would go off like a bomb.
: :
: : I thought he was joking. But, maybe he wasn't ...
:
: It surprises me that a battery without its polarity clearly indicated
: could be sold for use in Canada.
:
: since lithium ion batteries only work in the devices for which they
: were designed and have dedicated chargers, there's no need to mark the
: polarity. they can't be connected in reverse, in either the device or
: the charger.
:
: look at some lithium ion batteries. it's very likely there are no
: polarity markings at all

Aw, c'mon, NS, you don't think I would have written that without looking at at
least one. Two contacts on the batteries for my Canon 7D's do indeed have
their polarity indicated.

: and there is almost certainly more than two contacts anyway,
: sometimes 5 or 6.

There will be a + and - input from the charger; those are probably the ones
with their polarity indicated. The others are presumably a ground and one or
more output voltages for components of the camera. If there are fewer than
four contacts, it's a good bet that the input and output share a common
ground.

: charging lithium ion batteries can be extremely dangerous if you don't
: use the proper charger, especially if you just hook it up to a power
: source. that would be *really* bad.

I guess you mean "hook it up to an unspecified power source". The charger *is*
a power source, of course.

Bob