Two questions in one Pentax - Canon - Nikon

SMS wrote:
Sander wrote:

SMS wrote:

Just avoid the K100D and D40/D40x at all costs. These are seriously
de-featured models, and you'll regret not moving up the product line
one step.


What is it about the K100D that makes you call it "seriously
de-featured"?


-Resolution is too low for large prints (K10D is of sufficient resolution)

OP did not specify he wanted to produce large prints. My 8x10s from the
K100D are just fine, that's as big as I have needed. Perhaps it's all
the OP needs.

-No Li-Ion battery (K10D has it) so battery life is lower than K10D and
most other Li-Ion powered cameras (almost all D-SLRs are Li-Ion powered
because of the tremendous advantage of Li-Ion batteries, see
"http://batterydata.com")

Yeah, the fact that my 4 AA Eneloops only get 4 or 5 hundred shots from
a set is such a huge limitation...

-Poor continuous shooting mode due to small buffer (K10D has a large
buffer and has fast continuous shooting)

Again, not something the OP specified as a need. If he's not shooting
sprts, how big a factor is this *really* going to be?

-No LCD backlighting (K10D has it)

Not something I've needed in the 10 months I've had my K100D. Perhaps
the OP won't find it a big deal either.

-No battery grip available (K10D has it)

I suppose some people would find this a limitation. I'm not one of
those folks... And I would venture to say that most dSLR users are
probably holding their camera without a battery grip too. Professional
usage excepted, but the OP said nothing about that.

-Auto-focus is slow (K10D auto-focus is much faster)

This one could actually be a real factor in OP's decision.


I guess I was a bit harsh saying to avoid it at all costs. if you want a
very low priced D-SLR, and can live with the limitations, the K100D is
okay. It's $395 now with the kit lens, after $100 rebate
("http://www.buydig.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=PKK100DS1855"). That's a
heck of a deal for an IS D-SLR, and if price is the main consideration,
and you want to use it with existing Pentax lenses, then it's an okay
choice.

If the OP just wants to get back into the dSLR realm, has old Pentax
glass, doesn't need the specific K10D features that were left off the
K100D, and is budget-minded, then it's a *great* choice, not just an
"okay" choice.

J. F. Cornwall wrote:

snip


If the OP just wants to get back into the dSLR realm, has old Pentax
glass, doesn't need the specific K10D features that were left off the
K100D, and is budget-minded, then it's a *great* choice, not just an
"okay" choice.

What you don't understand is that not everyone's needs are as limited as
yours. The original poster did not specify that he didn't need large
prints, or fast continuous shooting, or a vertical grip (now or in the
future), or fast auto-focus, all features that are present on the K10D
as well as on most cameras from other manufacturers.

Not everyone is looking for the absolute cheapest product. The original
poster had apparently already ruled out the K100D, as it wasn't on his
short list. Presumably he ruled it out for some or all of the reasons I
listed.

At $395 it's certainly a good alternative to some of the ZLRs.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
"There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a
little worse, and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on
price alone is this man's lawful prey." John Ruskin
--------------------------------------------------------------------

SMS wrote:
J. F. Cornwall wrote:

snip


If the OP just wants to get back into the dSLR realm, has old Pentax
glass, doesn't need the specific K10D features that were left off the
K100D, and is budget-minded, then it's a *great* choice, not just an
"okay" choice.


What you don't understand is that not everyone's needs are as limited as
yours. The original poster did not specify that he didn't need large
prints, or fast continuous shooting, or a vertical grip (now or in the
future), or fast auto-focus, all features that are present on the K10D
as well as on most cameras from other manufacturers.

Not everyone is looking for the absolute cheapest product. The original
poster had apparently already ruled out the K100D, as it wasn't on his
short list. Presumably he ruled it out for some or all of the reasons I
listed.

True, the K100D wasn't on his short list. Possibly because it doesn't
meet his needs, possibly because he was unaware of it being a good
alternative.

My points were just in response to someone posting overly generalized
remarks about the need for certain features. ;-) I just wanted to
un-generalize the points a bit...

Jim

At $395 it's certainly a good alternative to some of the ZLRs.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
"There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a
little worse, and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on
price alone is this man's lawful prey." John Ruskin
--------------------------------------------------------------------

In article , SMS
wrote:

If the OP just wants to get back into the dSLR realm, has old Pentax
glass, doesn't need the specific K10D features that were left off the
K100D, and is budget-minded, then it's a *great* choice, not just an
"okay" choice.

What you don't understand is that not everyone's needs are as limited as
yours.

what you don't understand is not everyone's needs are the same as
yours. you keep harping that people *will* want a battery grip, for
example, or will want to use exotic and expensive lenses. a six
megapixel camera with a kit lens and perhaps a second lens is more than
adequate for a *lot* of people. that's why camera makers make more
than one model.

nospam wrote:
In article , SMS
wrote:

If the OP just wants to get back into the dSLR realm, has old Pentax
glass, doesn't need the specific K10D features that were left off the
K100D, and is budget-minded, then it's a *great* choice, not just an
"okay" choice.
What you don't understand is that not everyone's needs are as limited as
yours.

what you don't understand is not everyone's needs are the same as
yours. you keep harping that people *will* want a battery grip, for
example, or will want to use exotic and expensive lenses.

People may or may not want a vertical/battery grip in the future. It
just makes sense to choose a camera that has a full line of accessories
available. The same goes for lenses. On occasion people will often have
the need for an expensive lens. It's nice to be able to rent such a lens
for a day, and it's fairly inexpensive.

a six
megapixel camera with a kit lens and perhaps a second lens is more than
adequate for a *lot* of people. that's why camera makers make more
than one model.

Yes, it is adequate for some people. But as with most technology
products, it often pays to go up one step from entry-level, where the
feature set and performance is at a level that you'll be happy with for
a lot longer, rather than continually upgrading.

J. F. Cornwall wrote:

My points were just in response to someone posting overly generalized
remarks about the need for certain features. ;-) I just wanted to
un-generalize the points a bit...

It's often the case that the purchaser doesn't even realize that certain
features are missing until long after they make the purchase. Then they
find out that what they bought doesn't meet their needs, and it's an
expensive lesson. Many manufacturers intentionally defeature their low
end products, even when it really would cost them almost nothing to
include certain features.

In article , SMS
wrote:

nospam wrote:
In article , SMS
wrote:

If the OP just wants to get back into the dSLR realm, has old Pentax
glass, doesn't need the specific K10D features that were left off the
K100D, and is budget-minded, then it's a *great* choice, not just an
"okay" choice.
What you don't understand is that not everyone's needs are as limited as
yours.

what you don't understand is not everyone's needs are the same as
yours. you keep harping that people *will* want a battery grip, for
example, or will want to use exotic and expensive lenses.

People may or may not want a vertical/battery grip in the future. It
just makes sense to choose a camera that has a full line of accessories
available.

it *does* have a full line of accessories available, just not one
particular one you think everyone *must* have. a lot of people don't
give a flying hoot about battery grips, preferring a small lightweight
camera. that's why nikon made the d40 even *smaller* than the already
small d50.

The same goes for lenses. On occasion people will often have
the need for an expensive lens. It's nice to be able to rent such a lens
for a day, and it's fairly inexpensive.

but there's a real cost in buying more camera than one ever needs just
for the occasional use. it is often better to buy a camera that
*matches* one's needs, and then for the rare occasion it won't suffice,
rent not only the exotic lenses, but a *much* better camera as well.
or, borrow it from a friend.

a six
megapixel camera with a kit lens and perhaps a second lens is more than
adequate for a *lot* of people. that's why camera makers make more
than one model.

Yes, it is adequate for some people.

exactly. so why do you insist they buy something else?

But as with most technology
products, it often pays to go up one step from entry-level, where the
feature set and performance is at a level that you'll be happy with for
a lot longer, rather than continually upgrading.

sometimes it is, but not always. maybe they have budget constraints,
for instance. how about you offer to pay the difference between the
entry level model and the next model up?

nospam wrote:

exactly. so why do you insist they buy something else?

Who is "they"? The original poster didn't even mention the K100D,
presumably because he is looking for a more fully-featured, higher
performance model.

I don't care what anyone buys, but I do try to point out the trade-offs
between various models, and explain that for those that are not
constrained to buying the absolute lowest priced model from _any_
manufacturer, that there are real benefits in moving up at least one
level. The reasons include features, performance, resolution, accessory
availability, lens compatibility, etc.

sometimes it is, but not always. maybe they have budget constraints,

As I explained, for those that are constrained to buying the least
expensive model, making the feature and performance trade-offs may be
necessary. Obviously the originator of this thread is not constrained to
buy the cheapest D-SLR from _any_ manufacturer, as those he mentioned
are at least one level up.

In article , SMS
wrote:

I don't care what anyone buys,

yet you keep ranting about defeatured cameras and nimh batteries, among
other things. apparently, you do care.

but I do try to point out the trade-offs
between various models, and explain that for those that are not
constrained to buying the absolute lowest priced model from _any_
manufacturer, that there are real benefits in moving up at least one
level. The reasons include features, performance, resolution, accessory
availability, lens compatibility, etc.

i'm pretty sure people realize that the absolute lowest priced model
will have fewer features than the next model up, just as they realize
that the top of the line model can cover virtually any situation they
might encounter. however, if the lowest price model meets their needs,
what exactly is the benefit in spending more money for features they'll
never use?

nospam wrote:
In article , SMS
wrote:

I don't care what anyone buys,

yet you keep ranting about defeatured cameras and nimh batteries, among
other things. apparently, you do care.

To you it's "ranting" because you're upset about the facts. To most
people it's simply information that is worth considering when making a
buying decision. Let me guess, you bought a K100D, which is why you're
so upset.

i'm pretty sure people realize that the absolute lowest priced model
will have fewer features than the next model up, just as they realize
that the top of the line model can cover virtually any situation they
might encounter.

They don't always realize this. They will realize the obvious things
like megapixels. Unless they do some research, they may not be aware of
continuous shooting rate, LCD backlighting, battery type, accessory
availability, or lens compatibility. They may think that all that
they're giving up is resolution, and not realize the rest of it until
it's too late.

At least lens compatibility is only an issue on Nikon, which has three
different lists of compatible lenses for different level bodies.