Here is information about the Virginia Tech killer

AustinMN wrote:
On Apr 18, 11:51 am, strabo wrote:
snip

snipped

Actually, this required a number of things that you are ignoring:


1) The knowledge of how many shooters there were.

The only that matters is the one about to shoot you.


2) Ability to identify the shooter or shooters were on sight.

That would be the one shooting students.


3) A command structure capable of organizing the effort.

When there is no exit, charge.

When ambushed Marines are taught to charge as the best defense
and offense.


4) Sufficient training on how to take down an armed person when you
yourself are unarmed.

Have you heard of fear and rage? Direct it toward the threat. That's
all the training needed.



snipped

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J.F. Cornwall wrote:
Li RM wrote:
On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 12:51:54 -0400, strabo
wrote:

snipped

This guy was on a mission and my gut feeling is that even stopping to
slap in a new mag is about all the down time he would have wanted to
take.

"slapping in a new mag" counts as reloading... Even if it takes only a
few seconds, that's time for someone to try rushing him. I would hope
*I* would be brave enough to do it, were I to find myself in that
situation. Cthulhu willing, I hope never to have to find out, however...


What bravery?

Jesus man, you're going to be killed in a few seconds! Either you
move to escape or you remove the threat.

That's not bravery. That's survival 101.


Jim

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The Source wrote:
Last Name: Cho
Major: Engineering (Senior)

Firearm #1: Glock 19

Firearm #2: Walther P-22

And the country that allows mental cases to buy semi-automatic guns like
a Glock

United States of America.

Cho should have been committed, but they let him out.

strabo wrote:
J.F. Cornwall wrote:

Li RM wrote:

On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 12:51:54 -0400, strabo
wrote:

snipped

This guy was on a mission and my gut feeling is that even stopping to
slap in a new mag is about all the down time he would have wanted to
take.


"slapping in a new mag" counts as reloading... Even if it takes only
a few seconds, that's time for someone to try rushing him. I would
hope *I* would be brave enough to do it, were I to find myself in that
situation. Cthulhu willing, I hope never to have to find out, however...


What bravery?

Jesus man, you're going to be killed in a few seconds! Either you
move to escape or you remove the threat.

That's not bravery. That's survival 101.


True, but you still have to have *something* kickstart the mind & body
out of the natural reaction that has you hiding behind cover... Call it
bravery, call it rational thought, whatever. It still has to happen.
Or not...

Jim

On 4/18/07 7:19 PM, in article ,
"Li RM" wrote:

On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 12:51:54 -0400, strabo
wrote:

Cynicor wrote:
Ron Hunter wrote:
Cynicor wrote:
And in 2005, there were 1,390,000 violent crimes and 10,166,000
property crimes. Without supporting source material, I find it hard
to believe that the ratio of violent crime to defense from assaults
using handguns is 1.4:5.0 (or even 1.4:0.7). There are not 3x as many
assaults repulsed as there are assaults!

(Source: http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm)

We really can't know. How many crimes are averted simply because the
potential offender knows that his target is armed? This is one of
those unknowable things. Also, the only statistics we have are from
those situations that became out of control enough to involve the
police. I am sure that there are 10 situations that aren't reported
for every 1 that is.

Well, that's my point (I think). It's not defensible to make an absolute
claim about something that's not measurable, except if you're a Foveon
user.

The bigger point in this whole Blacksburg tragedy isn't that gun control
would or wouldn't have made a difference. It's that if someone is nuts
enough to want to kill a lot of people one day, it's going to be very
hard to stop them no matter what. Guns, machetes, or 767s, there is
simply a certain random baseline of violent mental illness that's
inherent in our species.


One gun per plane could have prevented 9/11.

One gun at that school could have prevented 90% of
the casualties.

The differences separating just a few generations can be dramatic.

Why didn't the boys form several groups to track, contain and overcome
the shooter? It would have been easy. Ideally done there may have
been no casualties. Otherwise, maybe two or three.

The answer is simple. They were afraid and most were immobilized
with fear. A few at least had the wherewithal to run or jump out of
windows, but NONE, absolutely NONE had the courage, imagination or
initiative to perform this simple act of survival. And what are they
doing now? Crying. Crying and looking for reporters and psychiatrists.

The shooter had a 9mm and a .22 and he had to watch his back and
reload at the same time. How is it possible to shoot 60+ people
under those circumstances? How could he kill 32 of them with these
low-power pistols? Another simple answer. They volunteered. They
sat and groveled while Mr. Shooter walked about shooting each multiple
times or in the head.

Some Americans have become so afraid of death that they can be killed
with ease.

How are you so sure he had to reload?

I shoot. I go to the range every so often, but I'm pretty familiar
with guns and even more familiar with my Glock.

Glocks come with a reloader - it's a plastic piece that you slip over
the mag to press rounds down into the mag to make it easier to reload.
Glock mags are a bit tougher to reload then say a 1911 .45 mag because
of the way the bullets stagger slightly in the mag. Do you have to
use the gizmo to reload? No, but I've done it that way and it's sure
easier to use the reloader. Even in a best case scenario, reloading
takes time.

I bet we find out that this guy didn't stop to reload - that he had
enough loaded hicapacity mags to do the job.

This guy was on a mission and my gut feeling is that even stopping to
slap in a new mag is about all the down time he would have wanted to
take.
You are correct. I saw an interview with one of those shot. He described
that, at most it was second to a second and a half pause between firing
rounds.


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On 4/18/07 7:29 PM, in article ,
"Bob Brock" wrote:


"Robert Sturgeon" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:07:25 -0700, Bill Funk
wrote:

On 17 Apr 2007 19:00:05 -0700, "
wrote:

What guarantee do you have that "to keep and maintain a firearm and
receive recurrent training" in the use of these firearms would NOT
have 100 times more incidents like the Virginia Tech massacre?
Remember, the availability of firearms is the cause of these
shootings.

Excuse me?
The "the availability of firearms is the cause of these
shootings"?

Why, of COURSE that's the cause. I was at a trapshooting
event last Sunday, and 37 people were shot to death!!! It
got so bad we almost had to take a break from the
trapshooting. Bloody bodies all over the place...

You mean the fact that I own a gun means I will shoot someone? That's
what you just said.

Sure. Owning a gun means you are bound to go on a murderous
shooting spree!!!

You want guarantees? Buy a car.
Life does not come with guarantees.
We have a ban in illegal drugs; did that come with a guarantee that
there would be no overdose deaths from drug abuse?

They had a ban on guns on the VT campus. How did that work
out?

BTW, did you see the videos that he sent to the news media between killing
sprees? In addition to the handguns, he poses with a knife and a hammer.
How in the hell will we build houses if hammers are outlawed?


"Nail-gun"?


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On 4/18/07 7:46 PM, in article
, "PirateJohn"
wrote:

On Apr 18, 8:29 pm, "Bob Brock" wrote:


They had a ban on guns on the VT campus. How did that work
out?

BTW, did you see the videos that he sent to the news media between killing
sprees? In addition to the handguns, he poses with a knife and a hammer.
How in the hell will we build houses if hammers are outlawed?- Hide quoted
text -

- Show quoted text -

Nail guns?

Sorry, bad example. REALLY bad example

--PirateJohn--
www.PirateJohn.com

DAMN! Beat me to the obvious...


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On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:47:42 -0500, "J. F. Cornwall"
wrote:

strabo wrote:
J.F. Cornwall wrote:

Li RM wrote:

On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 12:51:54 -0400, strabo
wrote:

snipped

This guy was on a mission and my gut feeling is that even stopping to
slap in a new mag is about all the down time he would have wanted to
take.


"slapping in a new mag" counts as reloading... Even if it takes only
a few seconds, that's time for someone to try rushing him. I would
hope *I* would be brave enough to do it, were I to find myself in that
situation. Cthulhu willing, I hope never to have to find out, however...


What bravery?

Jesus man, you're going to be killed in a few seconds! Either you
move to escape or you remove the threat.

That's not bravery. That's survival 101.


True, but you still have to have *something* kickstart the mind & body
out of the natural reaction that has you hiding behind cover... Call it
bravery, call it rational thought, whatever. It still has to happen.
Or not...

Jim

This guy must have moved very quickly from room to room. Because I
think both comments are accurate - even just moving to an instinctual
survival mode should have happend to at least a few people. They must
have been overwhelmed too quickly. Or - we will find out that people
did try and rush him and they simply didn't succeed.

Either way, from the looks of him in his pictures and video, I would
say he would have been very tough to get an upper hand on without a
gun.

On Apr 19, 1:59 am, strabo wrote:
AustinMN wrote:
On Apr 18, 11:51 am, strabo wrote:
snip

snipped

Actually, this required a number of things that you are ignoring:

1) The knowledge of how many shooters there were.


The only that matters is the one about to shoot you.

Ah, I see. So you know there's only one who is about to shoot you
because you saw it on TV and therefore can move backwards in time and
set it straight. If you are going to move from a defensive position
to an offensive one, you suddenly expose yourself to the tail gunner,
and are dead - and useless.


2) Ability to identify the shooter or shooters were on sight.


That would be the one shooting students.

And the one shooting the shooter is...shooting a student! Man, you
really are stupid.


3) A command structure capable of organizing the effort.


When there is no exit, charge.

Wrong.


When ambushed Marines are taught to charge as the best defense
and offense.

Wrong. They are taught to take cover and return fire. Leaving cover
to charge = dead marine.

4) Sufficient training on how to take down an armed person when you
yourself are unarmed.

Have you heard of fear and rage? Direct it toward the threat. That's
all the training needed.

Dead hero. There are ways to take down an armed person, but if you
have not been trained to do so, there is no way in hell you will get
me.


snipped


I notice you snipped all the other stuff that proved you were an
idiot.

Austin

In response to the lies and bull**** posted by the gun-nut sociopath
from Jacksonville, read further to learn what an absolute scumbag he
is and how this credit to the State of Florida lives among you. It
ain't pretty, and, beware of a possible gun-nut rampage in the future
from him!

From: PirateJohn
Newsgroups:
soc.culture.china,alt.obituaries,rec.photo.digital ,misc.survivalism,soc.veterans
Subject: Here is information about the Virginia Tech killer
Date: 18 Apr 2007 17:46:38 -0700
Message-ID: .com

---------------------------------

Folks, for your own safety, pay close attention to the activities
of the gun-nut sociopath defined below by his own words. He is liable
to become the next perpetrator of reprehensible acts of extreme violence.

Information about gun-nut sociopath PirateJohn Gilmer
of Jacksonville, Florida


From: PirateJohn
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Kill-file update: Roy, AKA 'A'
Date: 18 Apr 2007 14:55:29 -0700
Message-ID: .com

If it were legal and I could afford it, I would love to have a Heckler
and Koch MP-5 submachinegun with a solid stock. I always thought that
was an odd combination until I fired one, and realized how comfortable
and accurate they are.

I have seriously considered buying a pistol with a threaded barrel and
obtaining a legal silencer, which one can do in certain places and if
you can get the permission of certain people, and are willing to pay
the $$$ required. I felt like I could get the permission, but the $$$
(including a campaign contribution, I suspect) just never made it seem
worthwhile.

I did have an opportunity once to buy a legal MAC-11 at a fair price.
That's the MAC submachinegun designed for the .380 round and almost
always equipped with a silencer.

- - -

From: PAMNOT (PirateJohn)
Subject: The Dark Side never rests!
Date: 1998/12/27
Message-ID: #1/1
X-Deja-AN: 426178755
Newsgroups: alt.showbiz.gossip

Am I the only one that thinks that a lot of Rocky's (and other
assorted rightwinger's) hatred of The Prez. stems from Clinton's
tightening of firearms laws?? Let's face it - the thought of someone
like Rocky having access to a firearm is scary. Can we say 'keep him
away from the local McDonalds on his bad days'?? grin

{'ol John... looking over at his AR-15 carbine - and glad that these
things are generally unobtainable by medicated people, like Rocky, in
California...}

- - -

From: PAMNOT (PirateJohn)
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Date: 07 Mar 2001 01:28:52 GMT
Subject: MadCow is a fake; was NY Man Dies After Sucked Down
Drain
Message-ID:

And, just for the record, Yours Truly has a North Carolina concealed
carry permit. Never felt the urge to get one in FL. And a H&K P7 in
the center console. And an AR-15 carbine as a boat rifle. My motto
is that with so many armed nutcase rightwingers out there that every
neighborhood needs to have an honest, stable, armed liberal. In my
neighborhood that's me.

- - -

From: PAMNOT (PirateJohn)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.jimmy-buffett
Date: 07 Nov 2002 17:55:58 GMT
Subject: JB's a Democrat???
Message-ID:

Hell, I'm about as liberal as they come and I regularly carry a 9mm
pistol and keep an AR-15 rifle in the house.

My motto is that with as many armed rightwing nutcases as there are in
the World there needs to be at least one armed liberal in each
neighborhood to keep those rednecks in line

- - -
From: OAWAY (Billy Righteous)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.immigration
Date: 06 Jun 2003 18:03:34 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Matricula consular ID card are now illegal in Colorado!
Message-ID:

I'm smarter, bigger, stronger, and a lot meaner than you are. If you
ever put me in a position where I should reasonably fear for my life,
then you won't have to worry about going back to your cardboard
box of a home. You also won't be the first person that I didn't
like who I had to kill. Legally.

- - -

From: OSPAM (PirateJohn)
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Date: 13 Feb 2004 22:04:35 GMT
Subject: Attacker DEAD: Man saves his life and wife's with a
[horrible]HANDGUN
Message-ID:

I merely said that you were a coward. You need to read closer.
Second of all, there's no doubt in my mind that you are a wannabe.
I've had two instances in my life where I've had to hold a pistol on
someone, and they both talked big until they were looking down the
barrel of a gun.

----------------------------------

Hopefully, someone at Moffitt Corporation, 1351 13th Avenue South,
Suite 130, Jacksonville Beach, FL 32250, http://www.moffitthvac.com,
was doing something constructive while concurrently, their employee
Pirate John Wesley Gilmer III (aka, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
, , ,
, , ,
, , ,
, , or any of
the following in this partial list of additional known aliases:
, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
bresner@eatmyshorts, , ,
, ,
which are all associated with http://www.buccaneerpublishing.com/,
http://www.BuccaneerPress.com, http://www.PirateJohn.com,
http://www.RidingIntoHistory.org,
http://groups.google.com/group/jimmy_buffett-moderated, as well the
Atlantic Beach Vintage Motorcycle Club http://www.ABVMC.com for which
Pirate John Wesley Gilmer III boasts of being its "el presidente" and
about an Iron Butt Association 50CC in 2001 and his 1998 BMW R1100GS
"Robomantis", 1996 BMW K1100RS mk. II "Franken-K" a/k/a "The
ArrestMeRed K", 1997 F650 She Who Must Be Obeyed's bike
1986 BMW K100RS Flying Brick) who resides at 12526 Agatite Road,
Jacksonville, Florida 32258 while sweetheart scamming the house's
alleged owner Deborah Lynch (aka, of
http://www.deblynchrealtor.com) who is not worried about her privacy
as stated in usenet "Message-ID:
. com" and instructed
him to "give the jackasses both barrels"...


From: "BuccaneerJuan"
Newsgroups: alt.fan.oj-simpson
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 6:37 AM
Subject: Is Karen Anderson still trolling this
newsgroup?

Try this link as to who I
am:http://www.buccaneerpublishing.com/AdventureGuide.htm

- - -

Whois: buccaneerpublishing.com

buccaneerpublishing.com = [ 66.218.79.165 ]
Domain Name.......... buccaneerpublishing.com
Creation Date........ 2004-06-08
Registration Date.... 2004-06-08
Expiry Date.......... 2005-06-08
Organisation Name.... Administrator
Organisation Address. 12526 Agatite Rd.
Organisation Address.
Organisation Address. Jacksonville
Organisation Address. 32258
Organisation Address. FL
Organisation Address. UNITED STATES
Admin Name........... Administrator Buccaneer Press Inc.
Admin Address........ 12526 Agatite Rd.
Admin Address........
Admin Address........ Jacksonville
Admin Address........ 32258
Admin Address........ FL
Admin Address........ UNITED STATES
Admin Email..........
Admin Phone.......... 1.9048748633

- - -


From:http://anon1.coj.net/realestate/Fina...No=158365-0000

Duval County Tax Collector

2004 Real Estate Tax Summary

Property Information
Real Estate No. 158365-0000-7

Name DEBORAH LYNCH
Address 12526 AGATITE RD

Mailing Address for the Property
12526 AGATITE RD
JACKSONVILLE FL 32258 - 5306

Legal Description of Property
28-41 23-4S-27E GS
JULINGTON COUNTRY CLUB ESTATES R/P
LOT 6 BLK 5

Tax Information

Assessed Value 142260 Govt. Tax Value 117260 Exempt
Code H
RE Tax Lien Amt. Non Ad Val By Int. Amt. By Pen Amt.
Gross Tax
2,199.01 .00 .00 .00 .00 2,199.01

CURRENT YEAR TAX TOTAL AMOUNT DUE IF PAID IN
November December January February March April
2,111.05 2,133.04 2,155.03 2,177.02 2,199.01 2,268.73

Payment Information
Paid Code UNPAID Paid Date Exception Code 000

- - -

Since he brags about his numerous GPS units so often, here
are the coordinates to the house address so he can find it
better:

Decimal Degrees Deg:Min:Sec
Lat: 30.142338 30:08:32.417N
Lon: -081.561846 81:33:42.646W

- - -

From the archives at Google

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.obituaries/
[The comments at the bottom of the judgment are by the
person who
initially posted the message containing the following
information
about this DEADBEAT.]

DEBTOR: GILMER, JOHN
CREDITOR: NORWEST FINANCIAL AMERICA INC
AMOUNT: $ 1,233
NUMBER: B8972P2221
TYPE: OPEN JUDGMENT
ENTERED: 6/11/1998
STATUS: OPEN

So much for all that independently wealthy bull****. Ya'
can't
even pick up a $1200 tab.

$1200 ... Since 1998. A judgment for $1200. Ya' ain't
nuttin' but
a slug. A deadbeat.

- - -

And then there's the following message he posted. He denies
that
he did post it because it didn't originate at AOL which
allows
him to hide behind numerous identities but, you know very
well
how he lies. With all of the character assassination and
other
malicious mayhem he commits, you don't think he could hold
himself back from branching out to other domains and
areas of
specific, and sexual, interests, do you?

From: PirateJohn
Newsgroups: alt.sex.stories.gay
Subject: Gay Bikers
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 19:01:42 -0500

Any Gay Bikers out there?

- - -


http://www.bmwsearch.net/main/digest...-20031399.html

Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 13:06:14 -0400
From: JGilmer
Subject: BMW: Shoei Syncrotec replacement?

Shoei dealers seem to be clearing out their inventories of
this
helmet. Does anyone know if it's getting ready to be
replaced
and, if
so, do you have any details on the successor and the time
frame on
when it might appear?

- --PirateJohn--
a/k/a
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John W. Gilmer
Data Manager
Moffitt Corporation
Jacksonville Beach, FL

- - -

Using those details I searched and found the following
website:

http://www.moffitthvac.com/
Moffitt Corporation
1351 13th Avenue South, Suite 130
Jacksonville Beach, FL 32250
Phone: 904/241-9944
Fax: 904/246-8333

- - -


http://www.bmwsearch.net/main/digest...-20012002.html
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 21:46:57 -0600
From:
Subject: BMW: Ride To Savannah VII Starts Tomorrow

Scheduled to attend:

Joey Gilmer Jacksonville, FL
Pirate John Jacksonville, FL

- - -

http://members.aol.com/theshoprag2/aug04/page2.htm
BMWNEF was represented at the Asheville Rally by the
following
members:

JOHN GILMER AND DEBORAH

=================================================

List of chicken**** TROLL aliases recently used:

From:
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: Crazy nutcase Cmelak (the Hoodini Troll) is stalking again.
Look at what he wrote about another person in a newsgroup. Typical of
a Zappaqueer, right?
Date: 18 Apr 2007 16:06:24 -0700
Message-ID: . com

From:
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: Kill-file update: Roy Lieberman, AKA 'A'
Date: 18 Apr 2007 11:32:41 -0700
Message-ID: .com

From: George Bush
Newsgroups:
alt.politics.immigration,alt.conspiracy,alt.fan.ji mmy-buffett,alt.obituaries
Subject: Creepy stalker TJ Hardman, a failed political candidate
in Baltimore, continues to stalk others, was Adios to the San
Diego Minutemen
Date: 10 Apr 2007 18:18:39 -0700
Message-ID: .com

From: PirateJohn
Newsgroups:
soc.culture.china,alt.obituaries,rec.photo.digital ,misc.survivalism,soc.veterans
Subject: Here is information about the Virginia Tech killer
Date: 17 Apr 2007 11:05:14 -0700
Message-ID: .com

From:
Newsgroups:
alt.politics.immigration,alt.gothic,alt.fan.jimmy-buffett,alt.obituaries,balt.general
Subject: Creepy stalker TJ Hardman, a failed political candidate
in Baltimore, continues to stalk others, was Adios to the San
Diego Minutemen
Date: 12 Apr 2007 09:06:10 -0700
Message-ID: .com

From:
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Plonk. That's the sound of Hoodini going back into the troll
file
Date: 18 Apr 2007 15:05:43 -0700
Message-ID: .com


~~~~
John Wesley Gilmer III, 12526 Agatite Road, Jacksonville,
Florida 32258; (904) 247-3543 or (904) 652-7222 or (904)
268-5220 or (904) 673-0932; "I'm smarter, bigger, stronger,
and a lot meaner than you are. You also won't be the first
person that I didn't like who I had to kill. Legally." -- john
wesley gilmer III; john wesley gilmer III is, of course, "el
Presidente, Atlantic Beach Vintage Motorcycle Club,
www.ABVMC.com"