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Amateur wedding photos - how to meter?



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 25th 06, 11:07 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Tiny Tim
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Posts: 17
Default Amateur wedding photos - how to meter?

I'm one of the guests at a small wedding party in a couple of weeks - 22
people in all. There will be no official photographer or videographer so the
guests have been asked to shoot away and grab what they can. I believe I
will be the only person with a DSLR and suspect that there is an
expectation, or at least a hope, that my shots might rise above the average
P&S efforts of the rest of the guests.

I've got a 30D with 17-85 IS lens and a 580EX flash but that's it, and as a
regular guest I won't be messing around with tripods or reflectors or in any
other way trying to get cocky. I only got the 30D in June and the 580EX two
days ago so I'm really not going to be very experienced with the flash side
of things. I'm not familiar with the venue and I'm not going to have to try
to organise people or anything like that so it really is just about enjoying
the wedding and getting some nice shots that maximise the technical
equipment advantage that I have over the P&S brigade.

Given the above my only real concern is doing the best I can regarding
exposure as the bride will be in white and the groom in black. There won't
be masses of posed shots as the party is too small so most stuff will be
shot on the fly as candids etc.. Can anyone give me some advice on the best
approach to metering to allow me to fire off shots quickly without a lot of
fiddling about. My main concern is not to blow the highlights in the dress
but also not to turn it into dull grey either. I will shoot in raw but I'm
really not sure whether to stick with plain old evaluative metering and
perhaps bracket or manually compensate exposure if my histogram is blown.
Maybe that's too much fiddling to keep checking exposure, adjust and reshoot
as the P&S crowd will just snap and go and nobody will want to hang around
for me to perfect the shot. Or perhaps I should just to use partial or spot
metering, meter off the dress and maybe bump up the exposure a bit to keep
the whites white. But that would mean messing around by first aiming for
metering purposes, setting exposure lock, reframing for focus and then
reframing again for composition before finally taking the shot. It all seems
a lot to remember for someone like me who is still learning this stuff.
Then, of course, there will be shots without the wedding dress so that may
want a different metering technique. I guess evaluative is the easy way to
go for guests but I'm not so sure about the bride. What I'm really looking
for is a recommendation for the best "point and shoot" metering solution for
my DSLR, if there is such a thing.

I'd be grateful for any advice.

Thanks,
Tim.


  #2  
Old September 25th 06, 12:34 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
P
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Posts: 4
Default Amateur wedding photos - how to meter?

Tiny Tim wrote:
Given the above my only real concern is doing the best I can regarding
exposure as the bride will be in white and the groom in black.


Shoot everything in RAW. You can then adjust exposure on your computer, and
fix any mistakes that an incorrect white balance would give you.

Possibly choose a higher ISO (I often use 800) to reduce any camera shake.
Use the flash as fill-in, not as primary illumination.

HTH,

Pete.


  #3  
Old September 25th 06, 01:07 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Ian Riches
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Posts: 11
Default Amateur wedding photos - how to meter?

In article , says...
I'm one of the guests at a small wedding party in a couple of weeks - 22
people in all. There will be no official photographer or videographer so the
guests have been asked to shoot away and grab what they can. I believe I
will be the only person with a DSLR and suspect that there is an
expectation, or at least a hope, that my shots might rise above the average
P&S efforts of the rest of the guests.


rest snipped

I was in a similar position recently at a wedding. I have a Canon EOS
10D and 420EX. What I did was as follows:

1) I shot RAW. Gave me a bit more room for error in recovering
highlights.

2) I was lucky (photographically speaking...) in that the day was
overcast, and thus I didn't have to worry about flash for outdoor shots.
The light was perfect for decent people shots. In each location I took
one or two shots, used the histogram to help assess the exposure, then
dialed this exposure in on M (manual). As long as the light didn't
change, I was then fine without having to worry about the meter being
fooled by acres of black tux or white dress. This worked very well, and
it was educational to see how the meter moved about either side of my
manual exposure setting, while my shots came out exposed as I wanted
them.

3) When things moved inside later on and the flash was necessary, I
generally used at least ISO 400 or 800. This made the most of what
light there was, gave a less "stark" look, and, because the flash output
was lower than it would have been at ISO 100, gave less scope for
obvious flash metering errors. Even my relatively ancient 10D gives
very usable prints at 10x8 with ISO 800.

On the subject of flash metering, read, learn and inwardly digest
http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/, particularly if you don't
already know how your camera behaves with flash when in P, AV, TV, M
modes, etc. Behaviour in P, for instance, is *very* different from AV.

4) I took *plenty* of shots. You will not believe how difficult it is
to get a group of people all looking vaguely recognisable as humans at
the same time. Plenty of shots were destined straight for the bin, as
Auntie so-and-so had her eyes shut, or Uncle whatsit had a decidedly odd
leer.

Have fun.

Ian
--
Ian Riches
Bedford, UK
  #4  
Old September 25th 06, 01:26 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Tiny Tim
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Posts: 17
Default Amateur wedding photos - how to meter?

"Ian Riches" wrote in message
...
In article , says...
I'm one of the guests at a small wedding party in a couple of weeks - 22
people in all. There will be no official photographer or videographer so
the
guests have been asked to shoot away and grab what they can. I believe I
will be the only person with a DSLR and suspect that there is an
expectation, or at least a hope, that my shots might rise above the
average
P&S efforts of the rest of the guests.


rest snipped

I was in a similar position recently at a wedding. I have a Canon EOS
10D and 420EX. What I did was as follows:

1) I shot RAW. Gave me a bit more room for error in recovering
highlights.

2) I was lucky (photographically speaking...) in that the day was
overcast, and thus I didn't have to worry about flash for outdoor shots.
The light was perfect for decent people shots. In each location I took
one or two shots, used the histogram to help assess the exposure, then
dialed this exposure in on M (manual). As long as the light didn't
change, I was then fine without having to worry about the meter being
fooled by acres of black tux or white dress. This worked very well, and
it was educational to see how the meter moved about either side of my
manual exposure setting, while my shots came out exposed as I wanted
them.

3) When things moved inside later on and the flash was necessary, I
generally used at least ISO 400 or 800. This made the most of what
light there was, gave a less "stark" look, and, because the flash output
was lower than it would have been at ISO 100, gave less scope for
obvious flash metering errors. Even my relatively ancient 10D gives
very usable prints at 10x8 with ISO 800.

On the subject of flash metering, read, learn and inwardly digest
http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/, particularly if you don't
already know how your camera behaves with flash when in P, AV, TV, M
modes, etc. Behaviour in P, for instance, is *very* different from AV.

4) I took *plenty* of shots. You will not believe how difficult it is
to get a group of people all looking vaguely recognisable as humans at
the same time. Plenty of shots were destined straight for the bin, as
Auntie so-and-so had her eyes shut, or Uncle whatsit had a decidedly odd
leer.

Have fun.

Ian


Thanks for the tips. I must admit that it hadn't occured to me to meter once
and use manual mode to keep the EV from bouncing all over the place,
depending upon which subject was in the metering zone at the time. Should be
much simpler that way. I just hope the light stays constant at each location
as I have not yet got into the habit of checking exposure data - I
concentrate on the composition and just rely on the camera to sort out the
EV. That needs to change.

I knew the flash side of things was going to be a trial, just from the
manual supplied with the 580EX, but that webpage is pretty huge. I'll look
forward to reading that lot and hopefully some will sink in. Thanks again
:-)


  #5  
Old September 25th 06, 06:32 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Todd H.
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Posts: 78
Default Amateur wedding photos - how to meter?

"Tiny Tim" writes:

I have not yet got into the habit of checking exposure data - I
concentrate on the composition and just rely on the camera to sort out the
EV. That needs to change.


Indeed in the EOS digital world. I just shot another wedding with my
300D and 540EX. Exposure lock helps a little bit, if you pick a
neutral density spot to point it at, but goddamn that metering system
throws crap all over the map. You've got way more to think about
than composition I'm afraid.

Get your camera into the review mode that includes the histogram, and
you have to review every goddamn shot to make sure you haven't
heinously under or overexposed things. You'll be able to ferret out
hte underexposed or overexposed stuff quickly with the histogram
review enabled. If you aren't comfortable with the histogram yet, get
comfortable with it as it really is the key to dialing in proper
exposure and knowing when you need to adjust exposure compensation and
take another frame.

The exposure latitude of Film and having a good printer be able to
normalize exposure when there were metering variations was a _lot_
easier in this respect.

Hopefully your camera with ETTL-II doesn't suck as badly as the 300D
at ETTL-I.

I don't shoot RAW because wth the number of shots I take in a
photojournalistic style, I'd need to triple my CF card collection to
fit everything, and I target the value end of the wedding photography
scene, and I don't want to take all the extra time to go and dial
things in for every single shot.

Best Regards,
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/
  #6  
Old September 26th 06, 02:43 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Randall Ainsworth
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Posts: 559
Default Amateur wedding photos - how to meter?

In article , Todd H. wrote:

I don't shoot RAW because wth the number of shots I take in a
photojournalistic style, I'd need to triple my CF card collection to
fit everything, and I target the value end of the wedding photography
scene, and I don't want to take all the extra time to go and dial
things in for every single shot.


Dump the photojournalist crap and learn about lighting and posing. Your
photography will be better off in the long run.

And dump that Peavy and get a real bass.
  #7  
Old September 26th 06, 03:10 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Todd H.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 78
Default Amateur wedding photos - how to meter?

Randall Ainsworth writes:

In article , Todd H. wrote:

I don't shoot RAW because wth the number of shots I take in a
photojournalistic style, I'd need to triple my CF card collection to
fit everything, and I target the value end of the wedding photography
scene, and I don't want to take all the extra time to go and dial
things in for every single shot.


Dump the photojournalist crap and learn about lighting and posing. Your
photography will be better off in the long run.


Yer probably right. But somehow I keep getting hired without doing
any advertising, so I guess I'm stuck with skills that have gotten me
this far. If only I could shake these apparently happy customers.
Let's keep it our little secret though Randy. :-)

And dump that Peavy and get a real bass.


****, if only the 300D were as predictably reliable a performer as my
Peavey axes, I wouldn't be grinding the E-TTL axe whenever the subject
comes up.

Got any flash photography galleries to share in a wedding bent to
enlighten us further?

Best Regards,
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/
  #8  
Old September 26th 06, 04:02 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Randall Ainsworth
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Posts: 559
Default Amateur wedding photos - how to meter?

In article , Todd H. wrote:

Yer probably right. But somehow I keep getting hired without doing
any advertising, so I guess I'm stuck with skills that have gotten me
this far. If only I could shake these apparently happy customers.
Let's keep it our little secret though Randy. :-)


I really think that the photojournalism thing is a fad and will not
endure. For many, it's a coverup for lack of talent.

****, if only the 300D were as predictably reliable a performer as my
Peavey axes, I wouldn't be grinding the E-TTL axe whenever the subject
comes up.


I've never been a fan of anything Peavey. I have a Strat, Jazz bass, a
cheap Yamaha acoustic, a 6-string banjo, and a 6/12 doubleneck. The
Strat goes through a Mesa Boogie, the banjo and acoustic through a
Marshall acoustic amp, and the bass through a Fender bass head/bin.

Got any flash photography galleries to share in a wedding bent to
enlighten us further?


I stopped doing weddings in 1995 and hope to never do another. I used 2
lights - Norman portable for a long time and Photogenic AC-powered
lights in the later years.
  #9  
Old September 26th 06, 04:23 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Todd H.
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Posts: 78
Default Amateur wedding photos - how to meter?

Randall Ainsworth writes:

In article , Todd H. wrote:

Yer probably right. But somehow I keep getting hired without doing
any advertising, so I guess I'm stuck with skills that have gotten me
this far. If only I could shake these apparently happy customers.
Let's keep it our little secret though Randy. :-)


I really think that the photojournalism thing is a fad and will not
endure. For many, it's a coverup for lack of talent.


I guess I was shooting before it became a fad. How would you define
this photojournalistic style?

I'm still shootin all the posed crap people want certainly, but during
the ceremony, I'm grabbing moments left and right, and same at the
reception. Having come from sports and event photography for papers
and yearbooks in my earliest days it's always how I've approached
em. I guess. My clients know straight up if they want someone
showing up with location lighting and a backdrop doing a lot of formal
portraits, I'm not their guy. But then again, they're not payin me
$2000+ for a location fee, and having to pay $5-$10 a frame for any
and all prints on the back end.

****, if only the 300D were as predictably reliable a performer as my
Peavey axes, I wouldn't be grinding the E-TTL axe whenever the subject
comes up.


I've never been a fan of anything Peavey. I have a Strat, Jazz bass, a
cheap Yamaha acoustic, a 6-string banjo, and a 6/12 doubleneck. The
Strat goes through a Mesa Boogie, the banjo and acoustic through a
Marshall acoustic amp, and the bass through a Fender bass head/bin.


You gotta dump the 70's mindset. You won't find a Peavey bass that
hums like those overrated but ubuiquitous Fender Jazz's. Hell my
Foundation sounds a lot better than a Jazz, and the Cirrus won't even
talk to you if you compare it to a Jazz.

But hell I don't wanna talk anyone out of dissin Peavey actually,
because then the bargains on resale will be mine all mine on Ebay.
:-) But next time you have a chance, actually play a Peavey bass.
I'm sure someone will buy your 60Hz hum-mesister Jazz after you
replace it.

Got any flash photography galleries to share in a wedding bent to
enlighten us further?


I stopped doing weddings in 1995 and hope to never do another. I
used 2 lights - Norman portable for a long time and Photogenic
AC-powered lights in the later years.


Yeah, that's the crap I never wanted to deal with on location, and if
folks are expecting it I bid them well to go elsewhere and spend 4x.
:-)

Best Regards,
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/
  #10  
Old September 26th 06, 05:41 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Paul Furman
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Posts: 7,367
Default Amateur wedding photos - how to meter?

Ian Riches wrote:

1) I shot RAW. Gave me a bit more room for error in recovering
highlights.


Yup

2) ...In each location I took
one or two shots, used the histogram to help assess the exposure, then
dialed this exposure in on M (manual). As long as the light didn't
change, I was then fine without having to worry about the meter being
fooled by acres of black tux or white dress. This worked very well, and
it was educational to see how the meter moved about either side of my
manual exposure setting, while my shots came out exposed as I wanted
them.


I think this is a great idea. Some experimenting might help and it's a
simple move to flip back to A or S mode if you see something out of sorts.


3) flash output
was lower than it would have been


I suck with flash but dialing down the flash so it's only a soft fill is
good advice. Open up the aperture for low light & pay attention to
focus, shallow DOF is great when intentional for mood.


--
Paul Furman
http://www.edgehill.net/1
Bay Natives
http://www.baynatives.com
 




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