Sony's Alpha..I saw it, nice "try" better luck next time...

But really, it's reasonable at the price point.


--I got a chance to try it out. I was 1/2 impressed, 1/2 depressed.
What's bad:
-Build quality. It is so far below the E-1 or the Nikon D200 it isn't
funny. In fact, I had the D200 next to it and the differences are
enough to make you cry. Side issue; My only gripe about the Nikon,
the eyepiece and the back of the camera are too flush. You tend to
impact the LCD with your nose. Olympus's E-330 has it all over any
camera in this dept. Yes, it's an entry-level camera but it reminded
me of Canon's XT. Cost control is highly evident, from the switch
quality to the thunderous slap of the mirror/shutter. It just looks
and feels cheezy. This reskinned D5 Minolta NEEDS the IS inside it to
cope with the shutter/mirror slap, this is no joke!
-Feel; Not great. IMO, it's too small and not very comfortable. It's
the kind of camera you load a CF card into carefully for fear sloppy
tolerances could mean bent pins.
What's good;
-Outstanding auto WB in an enclosed environment.
-Good resolution
-Decent noise control
-A beautiful LCD display

Some images: WARNING full sized and large
The Sony 400 ISO
http://www.pbase.com/andersonrm/image/64615083

E-1 400 ISO
http://www.pbase.com/andersonrm/image/64615374

On 4 Aug 2006 17:55:40 -0700, "RichA" wrote:

But really, it's reasonable at the price point.


--I got a chance to try it out. I was 1/2 impressed, 1/2 depressed.
What's bad:
-Build quality. It is so far below the E-1 or the Nikon D200 it isn't
funny. In fact, I had the D200 next to it and the differences are
enough to make you cry.

The extra $1000 in my pocket makes me happy...

Side issue; My only gripe about the Nikon,
the eyepiece and the back of the camera are too flush. You tend to
impact the LCD with your nose. Olympus's E-330 has it all over any
camera in this dept. Yes, it's an entry-level camera but it reminded
me of Canon's XT. Cost control is highly evident, from the switch
quality to the thunderous slap of the mirror/shutter. It just looks
and feels cheezy.

That's just your opinion, the camera looks fine to me.

This reskinned D5 Minolta NEEDS the IS inside it to
cope with the shutter/mirror slap, this is no joke!

But it's just your opinion... not fact.

-Feel; Not great. IMO, it's too small and not very comfortable.

Another opinion... I like the size, it fits into a small camera bag and is easy
to carry. Fits my hand fairly well, and unlike the Canon 30D, my finger falls on
the shutter, I don't have to look for it.

It's
the kind of camera you load a CF card into carefully for fear sloppy
tolerances could mean bent pins.

yawn.... quite impossible.

What's good;
-Outstanding auto WB in an enclosed environment.
-Good resolution
-Decent noise control
-A beautiful LCD display

Some images: WARNING full sized and large
The Sony 400 ISO
http://www.pbase.com/andersonrm/image/64615083

E-1 400 ISO
http://www.pbase.com/andersonrm/image/64615374

wrote:
On 4 Aug 2006 17:55:40 -0700, "RichA" wrote:

But really, it's reasonable at the price point.


--I got a chance to try it out. I was 1/2 impressed, 1/2 depressed.
What's bad:
-Build quality. It is so far below the E-1 or the Nikon D200 it isn't
funny. In fact, I had the D200 next to it and the differences are
enough to make you cry.

The extra $1000 in my pocket makes me happy...

Side issue; My only gripe about the Nikon,
the eyepiece and the back of the camera are too flush. You tend to
impact the LCD with your nose. Olympus's E-330 has it all over any
camera in this dept. Yes, it's an entry-level camera but it reminded
me of Canon's XT. Cost control is highly evident, from the switch
quality to the thunderous slap of the mirror/shutter. It just looks
and feels cheezy.

That's just your opinion, the camera looks fine to me.

This reskinned D5 Minolta NEEDS the IS inside it to
cope with the shutter/mirror slap, this is no joke!

But it's just your opinion... not fact.

Actually, it's not. Tests have already shown that some DSLRs around
the
1/10-1/30 second mark do suffer from image blur caused by excessive
mirror
slap. Some have mechanisms that will raise the mirror, then release
the shutter
a couple to a few seconds later to avoid image blur. The Sony has the
worst
mirror slap I've felt in a DSLR. The Canon Rebel XT is the second
worst I've felt.

RichA wrote:
r opinion, the camera looks fine to me.


This reskinned D5 Minolta NEEDS the IS inside it to
cope with the shutter/mirror slap, this is no joke!

But it's just your opinion... not fact.


Actually, it's not. Tests have already shown that some DSLRs around
the
1/10-1/30 second mark do suffer from image blur caused by excessive
mirror
slap. Some have mechanisms that will raise the mirror, then release
the shutter
a couple to a few seconds later to avoid image blur. The Sony has the
worst
mirror slap I've felt in a DSLR. The Canon Rebel XT is the second
worst I've felt.


The Sony does not have bad mirror slap. You are talking about sound. Put
plugs in your ears, FEEL the cameras, and you'll find that more damped
actions usually transmit the energy as vibration into the body at a
fairly low frequency. Noisy actions like the Sony transmit the energy
externally as sound which typically has frequencies above the 70Hz
maximum response of the anti-shake gyros. A relatively high pitched
sound from the mirror/shutter action transmits no damaging vibration to
the camera; a soft low-pitched muffled sound transmits potential shake.

Anyone who worked in the past with cameras such as the Miranda T used on
microscope assemblies will be aware of this - clang like a bell when
fired, no vibration sustained in the mechanism.

The KM Sony mirror/shutter mechanism was designed to run using low
energy (relatively slow action) and mass, to avoid triggering the
in-body gyros. I have interviewed two KM design team staff about this,
it was one of the first questions which arose when discussion the 7D at
photokina - why is the shutter so slow, why is the action so noisy? The
question was immediately understoof and a full explanation given,
including references to the frequencies, and the absorption of energy
into the body by quieter SLRs. A side benefit is that the shutter has an
expected cycle before failure of 140,000 shots. This also applies to
other cameras, like the Nikon D70, Pentax *1st series, using the same
low mass, low energy assemblies by KM/Sony has the slowest transit time
and lowest energy requirement of all. The shutter is calibrated for
flash at 1/180th in the factory (a speed not available via camera
controls) and syncs at 1/160th officially. In practice it works up to
1/200th with normal flashguns.

SSS or AS is improved on the KM and Sony models by using the 2 second
mirror pre-lift (tested and proved) but it's a bit of a strange thing to
do without a tripod, and AS/SSS should be disabled when using a pod. So
the mirror and shutter actions definitely do affect AS/SSS despite all
attempts to prevent this. No doubt the same applies to in-lens IS
systems, depending on where the gyros are located.

David

On 4 Aug 2006 20:46:18 -0700, "RichA" wrote:


This reskinned D5 Minolta NEEDS the IS inside it to
cope with the shutter/mirror slap, this is no joke!

But it's just your opinion... not fact.

Actually, it's not. Tests have already shown that some DSLRs around

Some? Some? Like I said - it's your opinion, not proven by experimentation. AND
disproved by careful examination of pictures I have taken without VR engaged.
Pictures are as sharp as can be, even at 70mm. and blown up x2.

BTW - what are your qualifications to review the engineering of a camera?

I am an electronics technologist, and I work with optical equipment as well as
miniature electronics. The Sony Alpha is well made for the price, and all of
your observations seem to be that - amateurish observations! "Don't judge a
book by it's cover" is a phrase you need to learn.

On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 00:47:12 -0400, Bill wrote:

wrote:

On 4 Aug 2006 17:55:40 -0700, "RichA" wrote:

Bob...please stop replying to Rich...I have to read his drivel when you
do that.


Thanks for the tip!

RichA wrote:
and feels cheezy. This reskinned D5 Minolta NEEDS the IS inside it to
cope with the shutter/mirror slap, this is no joke!

A/S cannot cope with mirror slap (nor can VR or IS). They compensate
for body motion measured up to shutter depression.

--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.

RichA wrote:

Actually, it's not. Tests have already shown that some DSLRs around
the
1/10-1/30 second mark do suffer from image blur caused by excessive
mirror
slap.

Mirror slap happens to most SLR's in a speed range that is unique to
each specific model. Generally it's in the 1/10 - 1/125 range, but
again, it's specific to each model and the dynamics of the mirror and
the body. IOW, if the same mirror assembly was used in two different
camera models, the slap impulse would be the same, but the dampening
characteristic of the different bodies would be different.

Good cameras have one form or another of mirror lock up (a lever, a
timer or pre-fire) to eliminate the slap.

Minolta mirrors (in the AF line) are LOUD to be sure so it's no surprise
if they are loud in the DSLR from Sony.

It puzzles me that Canon have not used their excellent mirror system
from the Elan 7 in more of their SLR/DSLR's.


--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.

Alan Browne wrote:

RichA wrote:
and feels cheezy. This reskinned D5 Minolta NEEDS the IS inside it to
cope with the shutter/mirror slap, this is no joke!

A/S cannot cope with mirror slap (nor can VR or IS). They compensate
for body motion measured up to shutter depression.

Seems kind of useless then. To be useful it needs to compensate for body
motion while the shutter is open.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"Alan Browne" wrote in message
...
RichA wrote:
and feels cheezy. This reskinned D5 Minolta NEEDS the IS inside it to
cope with the shutter/mirror slap, this is no joke!

A/S cannot cope with mirror slap (nor can VR or IS). They compensate for
body motion measured up to shutter depression.

I'll not argue with that statement but from my laymans point of view the
mirroslap must be a known constant which could be allowed for even if the
sensor part of the antishake system doesn't/can't detect the mirrorslap.

This is based on the assumption that regardless of drive mode or shutter
speed the mirror speed is always the same.