Which PC for maximum reliability?

JoeG wrote:
[]
Not sure what evidence you could possibly have for your wayward
assertion, but INTEL MBs are well known in the industry for their
reliability -- after all, it is INTEL who designed the CPUs and
chipsets in the first place.

Joe

He tends to say things like that just to stir.

David

Paul J Gans wrote:
[]
If you are going to have a machine custom built by folks
you trust, go with *their* recommendations. They have more
experience.

Last time I did that they chose a motherboard which doesn't accept certain
PCI cards, and an AMD processor & memory which regularly hung under heavy
usage. This was their recommendation which they would then not replace.

Of course, perhaps these folks weren't that good.

Next PC I got from Dell instead - never had any problems with their PCs.

David

John McWilliams wrote:
Jürgen Exner wrote:
Dogbert wrote:
I have a busy photo studio, and absolutely cannot put up with delays
caused by a broken photo editing PC (broken hardware or screwed up
microsoft windows). I need my PC to be available, always. I am
willing to spend well over $10,000 if throwing money at the problem
is the solution.

Any software and hardware can and eventually will fail in one way or
the other. Therefore there is no "I need _MY_ PC available always".
The only viable approach is to have backup systems.

Quite true.
I would consult a professional company because designing and
maintaining such a system is way beyond the skills of the typical PC
amateur.

Exactly.

That's why going with Macintosh makes sense; you don't need outside
help, consultants or an IT department.

I am eager to learn how a Macintosh protects your valuable digital photos
from let's say a thief stealing your euqipment or fire fighting action
spraying your equipment with water or an earthquake smashing your equipment
or lightning getting past the surge protector and frying any piece of
electronic around...
Also, in the more typical event of a failed HD or power supply, does the
Macintosh repair itself automatically and reinstall the custom programs
automatically and restore the identical configuration to the old machine
automatically?

In other words: Neither the manufacturer of hardware or software nor the
operating system has any relevance when designing emergency plans and
procedures.

jue

On Jun 9, 2:00 am, Art a_heldatsignherehotmaildottcom wrote:
Since money is not the most limiting factor, I suggest you consider
the following NETWORK:
1) a high-end work station - lots of RAM, with RAID level 1 hard
drives for the OS and raid 5 for the local data disk array - for
photoshop, etc, and as a backup for #2
2) a mid-level backup work station - lots of RAM, regular hard drives
(for office billing, calendaring appts, etc), but also as a backup for
#1 should it fail.
3) a separate network storage device (NAS). This should have RAID 5 as
well, and be used to
a) backup up every thing on both machines
b) serve as archive storage for all the data out of use and over 90
days old.

4) Configure all machines to accept OS updates ONLY manually - NOT
auto updates. Accept Anti Virus updates daily.
5) a reliable person to set up your NETWORK, FIREWALL, BACKUPS, and
INITIAL SOFTWARE INSTALLS, and to do monthly security updates,
software patches, new installs, etc.and to assure your virus checking
stays current. They should also set you up with a UPS on EVERY
machine.

6) a firm rule that NEITHER of these machines is EVER used for web
browsing.
7) another firm rule that you ONLY open email from known sources that
has been through a good, current virus checker.

Why?
The RAID arrays assure that hard drive failures don't take you down.
The controlled updates assure that patches don't cause problems
the email rules and virus control keep your system from getting dirty.

On 09 Jun 2007 05:16:34 GMT, Dogbert wrote:





I have a busy photo studio, and absolutely cannot put up with delays
caused by a broken photo editing PC (broken hardware or screwed up
microsoft windows). I need my PC to be available, always. I am
willing to spend well over $10,000 if throwing money at the problem
is the solution. - Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Machines break, period. what I opted for was the best warranty and
support, Dell has more than kept their word with their full extra
warranty, I got the 4 yr warranty that covers it even if I drop my
laptop, They recently sent me overnight air a replacement XPS 1701 and
I was upgraded free, they gave me 2 weeks to return the old unit. I
did not expect such great service from Dell , but they stand behind
what they sell. I considered a Mac but Id have to drive 60 miles for a
store, Consider one of the new 2560x 1600? 30" monitors and an XPS to
run it, you will get a great unit, opt for the full warranty, it might
be nearly 6500$. Or for maybe 2000$ an XPS running a 24" 1920x 1200
monitor is tough to beat, check out reviews on their 2407 monitor, its
about half the competitions price, the only thing I dont like is the
adjustment controls. I dont work for Dell.

David J Taylor wrote:
Paul J Gans wrote:
[]
If you are going to have a machine custom built by folks
you trust, go with *their* recommendations. They have more
experience.

Last time I did that they chose a motherboard which doesn't accept certain
PCI cards, and an AMD processor & memory which regularly hung under heavy
usage. This was their recommendation which they would then not replace.

Of course, perhaps these folks weren't that good.

I'd certainly agree to that.

Next PC I got from Dell instead - never had any problems with their PCs.

I've had several Dells. Most ran Windows, some later ran linux.
I've never had any trouble with them either. In fact I've got
a Dell portable on order right now.

But then, I don't need 24/7 uptime on any particular machine.
All my machines are interlinked, one way or another (not all
are at the same location) and if one goes down, I just use
another until that one gets fixed.

By the way, my most common problem has been hard drive failure.
And that has been very rare. The only other problem I've had
was with (I think) a failing power supply that took the motherboard
with it when it died. The only thing that I could rescue from
it was the hard drive. That survived. Go figure.

--
--- Paul J. Gans

On 2007-06-09 01:16:34 -0400, Dogbert said:




I have a busy photo studio, and absolutely cannot put up with delays
caused by a broken photo editing PC (broken hardware or screwed up
microsoft windows). I need my PC to be available, always. I am
willing to spend well over $10,000 if throwing money at the problem
is the solution.

Any machine can fail. On the PC side, stick with the high end from
major manaufacturers (Dell, HP, etc) or a custom machine from a
reputable supplier who caters to businesses. They can also offer you
a service contract for repair/replacement with in a specified period of
time either on or off site. Many will install and configure a backup
system for you.

All that being said, for day to day stability and reliability I can
recommend Apple Macs. The OS, color managment, printers, scanners, etc
just work. The machine hums all day. My Dual G4 1.42 PowerMac is over
4 years old. The machine runs 24x7. Apple also sells two service
contracts. One is the normal consumer Apple Care and the other is a
more expensive one aimed at the professional user and gets you to the
head of the line and guaranteed repair times. I won't say my Mac has
never been to the shop. Its been in twice. Once for the nVidia
GeForce video card (cooling fan) and the other was backlight on the
monitor. While I was perfectly cabable of replacing the video card I
chose to bring it into the store.. It was back the next day. The
monitor took 2 days to be returned. Cost to me? A couple of gallons
of gas. Certainly if I were a pro, I would likely have two monitors.
While it might not have been as convientent to work with a single
monitor, I would not be out of business.

With the Mac, I can spend my time working instead of maintaing virus
scanners, firewalls, spyware detectors etc and worrying about the BSOD.
--
Jim

Jürgen Exner wrote:
John McWilliams wrote:
Jürgen Exner wrote:
Dogbert wrote:
I have a busy photo studio, and absolutely cannot put up with delays
caused by a broken photo editing PC (broken hardware or screwed up
microsoft windows). I need my PC to be available, always. I am
willing to spend well over $10,000 if throwing money at the problem
is the solution.
Any software and hardware can and eventually will fail in one way or
the other. Therefore there is no "I need _MY_ PC available always".
The only viable approach is to have backup systems.
Quite true.
I would consult a professional company because designing and
maintaining such a system is way beyond the skills of the typical PC
amateur.
Exactly.

That's why going with Macintosh makes sense; you don't need outside
help, consultants or an IT department.

I am eager to learn how a Macintosh protects your valuable digital photos
from let's say a thief stealing your euqipment or fire fighting action
spraying your equipment with water or an earthquake smashing your equipment
or lightning getting past the surge protector and frying any piece of
electronic around...
Also, in the more typical event of a failed HD or power supply, does the
Macintosh repair itself automatically and reinstall the custom programs
automatically and restore the identical configuration to the old machine
automatically?

In other words: Neither the manufacturer of hardware or software nor the
operating system has any relevance when designing emergency plans and
procedures.

Really! ?? That's quite a bit of news.

Of course one has to think through and design a backup system; it
doesn't happen by itself. But I don't think you have to hire a
consultant, God bless their souls, to design a decent backup plan. At
least not with Macs as the platform.

--
john mcwilliams

"Rita Ä Berkowitz" ritaberk2O04 @aol.com wrote in message
...
Tony Hwang wrote:

Hmmm,
Have one custom made.
I am using a 2xdual core Pentium based server with RAID SCSI storage.
Has dual monitor set up, redundant power supply on UPS, etc.
Pretty fail safe box.

It sounds like you are off to a good start! Two things, if it isn't a
Supermicro MB you have a very unreliable system. Also, The only UPS you
should be using is an APC Smart-UPS.







Rita

Sounds like someone gets a commission on the Supermicro crap boards. Go
peddle your **** at the nearest tracker pull sweet heart.

=(8)

John McWilliams wrote:
Jürgen Exner wrote:
In other words: Neither the manufacturer of hardware or software nor
the operating system has any relevance when designing emergency
plans and procedures.

Really! ?? That's quite a bit of news.

Of course one has to think through and design a backup system; it
doesn't happen by itself.

Actually that is step 3 or 4 already. First of all you need a risk analysis.

Do you need to be covered in case your HD crashes? Do you need to be covered
in case building becomes inaccessible? Do you need to be covered in case the
building collapses (and your treasured backup DVD are gone with it)? Do you
need to be covered in case the computer system is lost (stolen, seized by
police, zapped by lightning). Do you need to be covered in case the computer
catches a virus?

Second step is to determine how fast after each of those to be covered
incidents you must be back in business. This is a major cost driving factor,
because hot standby is obviously way more expensive then a cold one-week
rebuild.

But I don't think you have to hire a
consultant, God bless their souls, to design a decent backup plan. At
least not with Macs as the platform.

That depends what you mean by backup plan. If you are talking about
regularly taking a backup of the content of the HD, then you are certainly
right. And it may or may not be easier with a Mac (same as with viruses), I
don't know and I really don't care. However that is a very narrow, usually
too narrow view of an emergency recovery plan.
Example: where do you keep those backups of yours? Not in the same building,
I hope? Chances are, they will be lost together with the original in case of
a fire or natural disaster. Maybe you shouldn't even store them in the same
geographical area, just to thwart the next earth quake. But then again, how
do you access them quickly when you need them?

I can assure you, that designing a failure-tolerant computer system is way
beyond the skills of even most computer experts. Just doing the risk
analysis is anything but trivial. And balancing business needs (or wants)
with cost for e.g. finding the most cost-efficient option for distributed
offsite data backup storage or options for system replacement from
hot-swappable where a standby system just takes over with even the same
IP-address to just order a new computer and reinstall everything is a
challange even for experts. And this part is independant of the OS, no
matter if Windows, Mac, Unix, or some main frame.

The OP wrote "I need my PC to be available, always." Taken literaly this
requires a hot standby system and automated remote data backup. But he won't
get that for only 10000. Therefore his first step should probably be to sit
down and look carefully at his REAL needs.

jue

Jürgen Exner wrote:
John McWilliams wrote:
Jürgen Exner wrote:
In other words: Neither the manufacturer of hardware or software nor
the operating system has any relevance when designing emergency
plans and procedures.
Really! ?? That's quite a bit of news.

Of course one has to think through and design a backup system; it
doesn't happen by itself.

Actually that is step 3 or 4 already. First of all you need a risk analysis.

Do you need to be covered in case your HD crashes? Do you need to be covered
in case building becomes inaccessible? Do you need to be covered in case the
building collapses (and your treasured backup DVD are gone with it)? Do you
need to be covered in case the computer system is lost (stolen, seized by
police, zapped by lightning). Do you need to be covered in case the computer
catches a virus?

Second step is to determine how fast after each of those to be covered
incidents you must be back in business. This is a major cost driving factor,
because hot standby is obviously way more expensive then a cold one-week
rebuild.

But I don't think you have to hire a
consultant, God bless their souls, to design a decent backup plan. At
least not with Macs as the platform.

That depends what you mean by backup plan. If you are talking about
regularly taking a backup of the content of the HD, then you are certainly
right. And it may or may not be easier with a Mac (same as with viruses), I
don't know and I really don't care. However that is a very narrow, usually
too narrow view of an emergency recovery plan.
Example: where do you keep those backups of yours? Not in the same building,
I hope? Chances are, they will be lost together with the original in case of
a fire or natural disaster. Maybe you shouldn't even store them in the same
geographical area, just to thwart the next earth quake. But then again, how
do you access them quickly when you need them?

I can assure you, that designing a failure-tolerant computer system is way
beyond the skills of even most computer experts. Just doing the risk
analysis is anything but trivial. And balancing business needs (or wants)
with cost for e.g. finding the most cost-efficient option for distributed
offsite data backup storage or options for system replacement from
hot-swappable where a standby system just takes over with even the same
IP-address to just order a new computer and reinstall everything is a
challange even for experts. And this part is independant of the OS, no
matter if Windows, Mac, Unix, or some main frame.

The OP wrote "I need my PC to be available, always." Taken literaly this
requires a hot standby system and automated remote data backup. But he won't
get that for only 10000. Therefore his first step should probably be to sit
down and look carefully at his REAL needs.

Good points, all. I realize I assumed my own parameters, and interpreted
his "available always" as having a fully backed up second machine and
second backup drive that he'd boot and in a few minutes be up and
running/working again. i.e. in my mind I ruled out hot standbys and
server type issues.

--
john mcwilliams