Mirror lens

"Buy_Sell" wrote in message
oups.com...
http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography...002000/cat.htm

---------------------------
Tony Polson wrote:
Peter wrote:

I'm kinda interested in long focal length lens. My longest now is 400mm,
so I would be looking for at least 600-700mm, and I do not fancy TCs.
I'm aware of mirror lens limitations, but for the price it seems like a
nice toy... I cant afford 500mm refractor-type lens for sure.

All I've been able to find is 500mm mirrors - not good enough. Are there
any longer ones out there?


There is a Sigma 600mm mirror lens, the Vivitar Solid Cat 600mm and
800mm lenses plus the Soviet-made MTO 1100mm mirror lens. The
Vivitar Solid Cats are relatively rare but they do come up on eBay
from time to time.

The Soviet lens used to be advertised as a 1000mm lens but its focal
length is actually nearer 1100mm. In later years it was sold
(optically unchanged) with 1100mm focal length markings.


Good god, I had to really look to spot the camera on the end.

Peter wrote:
Quality TCs on good lenses perform very well with only small
percentage loss in detail and contrast. In general, you will
probably get better performance from a quality telephoto
plus a TC than you will with a cheap mirror lens.

I have many images on my web site with and without TCs. Check out
the birds and bear galleries at: http://www.clarkvision.com
There are also stacked 1.4+2x TC images, e.g.:
http://www.clarkvision.com/galleries...-c-5x-700.html

See also:
Teleconverter Experiences
http://www.clarkvision.com/imagedeta...onverter1.html

I've tried 80-400mm Sigma OS with Promaster 1.4x TC and seen dramatic
loss of sharpness. Are you saying that Canon 2x TC will give me
noticeably better results than Promaster? Sigma is not exactly the
sharpest lens around but it's not bad either.

Peter

Peter,
No, I'm saying you'll get good results with fixed lenses, not
zooms. Zooms are in general softer than fixed focal length
lenses. You need top quality optics in order to magnify the
image with TCs and all zooms are a compromise. You also need
top quality TCs. I use Kenko pro 300 TCs (1.4x and 2x).
All the images in the above links are with fixed lenses and
kenko pro TCs.

Roger

The Russian mirrors are not bad for the price. I got a 1000 mm f11
(effective T stop of 13, like all mirrors) for about 200 USD. It uses a
t-mount (I use Nikon). I assume there is a t-mount for the latest Canon
mount...

Toby


"Peter" wrote in message
. com...
I'm kinda interested in long focal length lens. My longest now is 400mm,
so I would be looking for at least 600-700mm, and I do not fancy TCs. I'm
aware of mirror lens limitations, but for the price it seems like a nice
toy... I cant afford 500mm refractor-type lens for sure.

All I've been able to find is 500mm mirrors - not good enough. Are there
any longer ones out there?

Sorry. Forgot to mention this is for Canon 20D

Peter

Quality TCs on good lenses perform very well with only small
percentage loss in detail and contrast. In general, you will
probably get better performance from a quality telephoto
plus a TC than you will with a cheap mirror lens.

I have many images on my web site with and without TCs. Check out
the birds and bear galleries at: http://www.clarkvision.com
There are also stacked 1.4+2x TC images, e.g.:
http://www.clarkvision.com/galleries...-c-5x-700.html

See also:
Teleconverter Experiences
http://www.clarkvision.com/imagedeta...onverter1.html

I've tried 80-400mm Sigma OS with Promaster 1.4x TC and seen dramatic
loss of sharpness. Are you saying that Canon 2x TC will give me
noticeably better results than Promaster? Sigma is not exactly the
sharpest lens around but it's not bad either.


No, I'm saying you'll get good results with fixed lenses, not
zooms. Zooms are in general softer than fixed focal length
lenses. You need top quality optics in order to magnify the
image with TCs and all zooms are a compromise. You also need
top quality TCs. I use Kenko pro 300 TCs (1.4x and 2x).
All the images in the above links are with fixed lenses and
kenko pro TCs.

Hmm. According to wisdom on this group 500mm Nikkor f/8 (going price on
eBay seems to be in 200+$ range) + TC + Nikon-Canon adapter is the best
combo. Of course I wont have autofocus but camera should be able to
meter automatically.

Anyone care to comment?

Peter

"Peter" wrote in message
. com...
Hmm. According to wisdom on this group 500mm Nikkor f/8 (going price on
eBay seems to be in 200+$ range) + TC + Nikon-Canon adapter is the best
combo. Of course I wont have autofocus but camera should be able to meter
automatically.

Anyone care to comment?


There is one issue to keep in mind. If you use an autofocus teleconverter
on a manual focus (non-electronic) lens, then the TC will close the
microswitch in the EOS mount that tells the camera that a lens is present.
When you take the picture, the camera will hang. You'll either need a
non-electronic TC, or you have to press the lens release and rotate the TC
slightly toward releasing from the camera to disconnect the switch. You
might want to use two tripods, one for the lens and one for the camera to
reduce the risk of the lens falling off. EOS cameras meter nicely in Av and
M modes with manual lenses.

I have used the 2x TC with my F/8 mirror and the results are not great. The
TC gives you F/16 which causes the viewfinder to not be very bright and the
depth of field is not shallow enough at long distances to judge the plane of
best focus manually very well. It is easier with larger apertures and long
focal lengths and closer distances where the focal plane is easily visible.
Aside from difficult focussing, the pictures are too soft for almost
anything. Even 4x6 prints aren't great. Adding the 2x TC to the mirror
lens doesn't give better results than just cropping 1/2 the picture out.

A mirror lens has the benefit of no chromatic aberation but otherwise I
don't think you will be pleased. A Nikon-EOS adaptor is fairly expensive
also as is a good quality TC. I am sure that the Nikkor is much better than
the Quantaray mirror that I have but still I would think that the money
would be better put toward a refracting lens. The Sigma 600mm F/8 mirror is
fairly well liked also and includes a hood and case for $449.
http://www.amazon.com/Sigma-600mm-F8...e=UTF8&s=photo


I suspect that this Samyang/Opteka/Phoenix 650-1300mm F/8-16 lens would get
you better results than a mirror with TC:
http://www.opteka.com/productdetail.asp?productid=4127
It even includes a carrying bag and a T-Mount adaptor.

Some pictures from this lens are he
http://www.fortunecity.com/greenfiel...n/464/id37.htm

Pictures of it mounted on a 20D are he
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/...103319&page=24
Another case where I think two tripods are needed. There is a couple of
moon pictures and one of Mars taken with this lens. They didn't put up any
pictures with the 2x TC though.

With a bit of noise reduction (for the high ISO's needed), contrast
adjustment and careful sharpening, you could probably get some ok pictures
from it.

Consider also the Russian manual focus lenses (Kiev has the best prices):
http://www.rugift.com/photocameras/c...ras_lenses.htm
http://www.zenit-camera.com/canon_cameras_lenses.htm
http://www.kievcamera.com/cameras.php?cat=14

They have a few mirror lenses for sale including a 500mm f/5.6, 500 f/8,
1000mm f/10. The Peleng 8mm f/3.5 circular fisheye is a lot of fun too and
a good lens for the price.

With a 500mm F/5.6 mirror, and the M42-EOS adaptor with focus confirmation
($95):
http://www.rugift.com/photocameras/c...us-confirm.htm

you would get the autofocus confirmation light during manual focussing which
may help a lot. According to Bob Atkins, it works well.
http://www.bobatkins.com/photography...g_adapter.html

If you want the to take the kind of pictures that Roger has on his site,
you'll probably have to invest in a more serious lens.

"Toby" wrote:
The Russian mirrors are not bad for the price. I got a 1000 mm f11
(effective T stop of 13, like all mirrors)

Why do you say "like all mirrors". You should be able to make a mirror
with any T stop you want (well, within reason), by making the mirror larger
or smaller.

Or is it just that most manufacturers have tended to design around T/13 as
a good compromise of many factors?

Roy Smith wrote:
"Toby" wrote:
The Russian mirrors are not bad for the price. I got a 1000 mm f11
(effective T stop of 13, like all mirrors)

Why do you say "like all mirrors". You should be able to make a mirror
with any T stop you want (well, within reason), by making the mirror larger
or smaller.



I think the OP meant that "all" mirror lenses that are f/11
are t/13.

And f/22 would be t/26, and f/5.5 would be t/6.5, etc.

Doug McDonald

"Peter" wrote in message . com...
Hmm. According to wisdom on this group 500mm Nikkor f/8 (going price on eBay seems to be in 200+$ range) + TC + Nikon-Canon
adapter is the best combo. Of course I wont have autofocus but camera should be able to meter automatically.

Anyone care to comment?

Peter

I posted this earlier:
"You can adapt Nikkor lenses to Canon bodies, and since the adapter
doesn't allow for auto-diaphragm operation and mirrors don't have
auto-diaphragms, this can work well. The older-version 500mm f8
is quite sharp at distances out to infinity, unlike most others - so sharp
that it works well on the Nikon TC14B, giving a good 700mm f11
('course the "real" stop is almost one stop less, as is generally true with
mirrors...). [with some editing...]"
Note that I specify the Nikkor TC14B converter - the Nikkor TC14A,
TC14C, and likely the newer AF 1.4x, do not work as well (someone
else commented about the possibility of an AF converter causing the
Canon body to hang, also...). Unfortunately, The TC14B in nice
codition may cost more than the lens in similar condition...
--
David Ruether


http://www.ferrario.com/ruether

Peter wrote:
Quality TCs on good lenses perform very well with only small
percentage loss in detail and contrast. In general, you will
probably get better performance from a quality telephoto
plus a TC than you will with a cheap mirror lens.

I've tried 80-400mm Sigma OS with Promaster 1.4x TC and seen dramatic
loss of sharpness.

You can try Canon 200/2.8 with both Canon 1.4x and Canon 2x stacked,
for a total of 600/8.

http://digitcamera.tripod.com/#slr

AaronW" wrote in message
ups.com...
You can try Canon 200/2.8 with both Canon 1.4x and Canon 2x stacked,
for a total of 600/8.

http://digitcamera.tripod.com/#slr


Will a Canon 1.4 and 2x fit together? It looks like the protruding front
element on each would not allow them to be stacked.