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2 questions about digital cameras



 
 
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  #21  
Old December 20th 08, 01:11 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.point+shoot,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,312
Default 2 questions about digital cameras

MartinS wrote:

Rechargeable batteries for camcorders can cost over $100, and most don't
take AAs.


Choosing a camcorder wisely is very important. I.e. my Canon camcorder
uses the ubiquitous BP511 (2000mAH for $12) or BP535 (4500mAH for $30)
batteries. I didn't even consider the battery type when I was
researching camcorders, but I was happy that it used the same battery
type as two of my digital cameras.

I remember my VHS-C camcorder, where there was a large after-market for
the NiMH packs, and the same pack would work in a lot of different
models from different manufacturers because it had multiple contacts and
could be inserted in different orientations.
  #22  
Old December 20th 08, 01:25 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.point+shoot,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
John Navas[_2_]
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Posts: 3,956
Default 2 questions about digital cameras

On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 15:18:07 -0800 (PST), -hh
wrote in
:

John Navas wrote:


True, but almost as easy to use an external adapter that powers the
device from external AA batteries. *I used to have one for my cell
phone. *I've considered getting one for my cameras, but went with spare
batteries instead.


That's another possibility, and while it does solve the "oops, forgot
to charge my batteries", it doesn't generally relieve the problems of
"how much stuff" is being carried.


The batteries are too small and light for that to be an issue. My case
couldn't really be any smaller even without them.

Another factor in their favor is that even superior quality
(2000+mAhr) NiMH AA's are a good bang for the buck. I paid $15 for a
pack of 4 last month at B&H, whereas when one looks at the proprietary
camera batteries, you're often in for a royal soaking. For example,
the ~800mAh CGR-S006 battery for the Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ28 is $50
for the OEM and $28 for the 3rd party aftermarket version. ...


I just got an OEM battery for $20. At that price cost is not an issue
to me.
--
Best regards,
John
[Please Note: Ads belong (only) in rec.photo.marketplace.digital]
  #23  
Old December 20th 08, 01:33 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.point+shoot,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
John Navas[_2_]
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Posts: 3,956
Default 2 questions about digital cameras

On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 16:05:18 -0800, SMS
wrote in :

Second, power is not measured in mAH, it's measured in W (or mW).

Thrid, batteries don't store power, they store energy.

Fourth, power is not what you need to compare, energy is what you need
to measure, in WH (or mWH) when you compare costs.


Steven once again displays his technical ignorance.
mAh is in fact the standard measurement of battery storage capacity.
(Voltage only comes into play when it differs,
which isn't the case for a given device.)
--
Best regards,
John
[Please Note: Ads belong (only) in rec.photo.marketplace.digital]
  #24  
Old December 20th 08, 02:18 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.point+shoot,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
nospam
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Posts: 24,165
Default 2 questions about digital cameras

In article , SMS
wrote:

Second, power is not measured in mAH, it's measured in W (or mW).

Thrid, batteries don't store power, they store energy.

Fourth, power is not what you need to compare, energy is what you need
to measure, in WH (or mWH) when you compare costs.


semantics.

For a good web site on this topic, type "nimh vs li-ion" into the Google
search box then click on "I'm Feeling Lucky". It's the premier web site
for information on camera batteries and their trade-offs.


translated: my own site comes up and i get revenue if you click, but i
will suggest using google so it won't look like i'm shilling.
  #25  
Old December 20th 08, 04:38 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.point+shoot,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Chris Malcolm[_2_]
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Posts: 3,142
Default 2 questions about digital cameras

In rec.photo.digital.slr-systems MartinS wrote:
-hh wrote:
SMS wrote:
Neil Jones wrote:

The battery life is another thing that is very important for me as
well . I have ruled out Canon Powershot SX10 IS, since they take
AA batteri es (but recommend NiMH).

Yes, it's really too bad that Canon cheaped out in that way. Yet AA
batteries aren't as bad as they were in the past with the advent of
Eneloop cells with low self-discharge.


Plus some of us consider the ubiquitous and non-proprietary AA
batteries to be a feature, not a liability, as it means we're able to
reduce the proliferation of chargers and types of spares we carry (in
context of other additional electronic devices also in use). Its just
a different perspective and slight shift in personal priorities.


Plus, if your batteries run out somewhere where you can't recharge them,
you can use regular alkalines or lithium.


If a Li-on battery camera has a battery recharging socket then it's
easy enough to make up an AA battery of the appropriate voltage with
the right plug on the end. Then you can have the best of both worlds.

--
Chris Malcolm



  #26  
Old December 20th 08, 05:29 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.point+shoot,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,312
Default 2 questions about digital cameras

Chris Malcolm wrote:

If a Li-on battery camera has a battery recharging socket then it's
easy enough to make up an AA battery of the appropriate voltage with
the right plug on the end. Then you can have the best of both worlds.


Very few Li-Ion powered cameras (or AA powered cameras for that matter)
have internal chargers any more. My Canon G2 has that feature, but
current G series models don't have it.

You could still charge the Li-Ion battery with ten AA cells and a 12V
charger. All this assumes that you're in a place with no AC or DC power.
But the advantage of the AA cells is that you just buy some Alkaline or
Lithium disposable batteries at the convenience store, and you don't
need to worry about chargers, cables, etc.

For a D-SLR, most of the vertical grips can take six AA cells or two
Li-Ion packs.
  #27  
Old December 20th 08, 06:00 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.point+shoot,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
J. Clarke
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Posts: 2,690
Default 2 questions about digital cameras

SMS wrote:
Chris Malcolm wrote:

If a Li-on battery camera has a battery recharging socket then it's
easy enough to make up an AA battery of the appropriate voltage
with
the right plug on the end. Then you can have the best of both
worlds.


Very few Li-Ion powered cameras (or AA powered cameras for that
matter) have internal chargers any more. My Canon G2 has that
feature, but current G series models don't have it.

You could still charge the Li-Ion battery with ten AA cells and a
12V
charger. All this assumes that you're in a place with no AC or DC
power. But the advantage of the AA cells is that you just buy some
Alkaline or Lithium disposable batteries at the convenience store,
and you don't need to worry about chargers, cables, etc.


Buy a lot of them though--on some cameras alkalines are only good for
a dozen or so shots, and lithiums are not likely to be convenience
store items anywhere that there's no power to charge NiMH or lithium
ion.

For a D-SLR, most of the vertical grips can take six AA cells or two
Li-Ion packs.


--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)


  #28  
Old December 20th 08, 08:05 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.point+shoot,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default 2 questions about digital cameras

In article
,
Chinese Bicycle Guy wrote:

On Dec 19, 5:18*pm, nospam wrote:
In article , SMS

wrote:
Second, power is not measured in mAH, it's measured in W (or mW).


Thrid, batteries don't store power, they store energy.


Fourth, power is not what you need to compare, energy is what you need
to measure, in WH (or mWH) when you compare costs.


semantics.


No it isn't semantics at all.


yes it is. hh mistakenly called it power instead of mah and you jumped
on him. it's obvious what he meant.

translated: my own site comes up and i get revenue if you click, but i
will suggest using google so it won't look like i'm shilling.


I get no revenue if you click. The only time I ever get revenue is if
someone uses one of the affiliate links to Amazon or B&H or Adorama.
It's $100 in a good quarter. The reason I suggest that people use the
search engine is because I want it to be clear that these sites are
very highly rated. It's a question of credibility.


that's a laugh. just because something shows up in google doesn't make
it credible, plus a lot of what's on your page has been discredited.
  #29  
Old December 20th 08, 10:09 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.point+shoot,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Ron Hunter
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,064
Default 2 questions about digital cameras

MartinS wrote:
-hh wrote:
SMS wrote:
Neil Jones wrote:
The battery life is another thing that is very important for me as
well . I have ruled out Canon Powershot SX10 IS, since they take
AA batteri es (but recommend NiMH).
Yes, it's really too bad that Canon cheaped out in that way. Yet AA
batteries aren't as bad as they were in the past with the advent of
Eneloop cells with low self-discharge.

Plus some of us consider the ubiquitous and non-proprietary AA
batteries to be a feature, not a liability, as it means we're able to
reduce the proliferation of chargers and types of spares we carry (in
context of other additional electronic devices also in use). Its just
a different perspective and slight shift in personal priorities.


Plus, if your batteries run out somewhere where you can't recharge them,
you can use regular alkalines or lithium.

I find the flexibility of AA batteries well worth the extra size and
weight they impose. With the newer batteries, the self-discharge is no
longer a consideration, so fewer recharges are required.
  #30  
Old December 20th 08, 10:15 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.point+shoot,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Ron Hunter
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,064
Default 2 questions about digital cameras

SMS wrote:
-hh wrote:

Another factor in their favor is that even superior quality
(2000+mAhr) NiMH AA's are a good bang for the buck. I paid $15 for a
pack of 4 last month at B&H, whereas when one looks at the proprietary
camera batteries, you're often in for a royal soaking. For example,
the ~800mAh CGR-S006 battery for the Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ28 is $50
for the OEM and $28 for the 3rd party aftermarket version. And the
1400mAh BP-511A for Canon DSLR's is effectively no better: $50 and
$25. When you compare by actual power stored, the AAs are around
1/10th the cost per mAh.


Wrong, on many counts.

First, the after-market CGA-S006 is $20
("http://sterlingtek.com/pacgcgcgforp.html") while the aftermarket BP511
is $12 ("http://sterlingtek.com/caeodicaba.html"). It's not really fair
to look at one of the most expensive places to buy after-market
batteries when you make your calculations (though even at the B&H prices
you're incorrect). Note that the Sterlingtek prices are by no means the
lowest available, but I didn't want to use some of the prices of eBay
vendors of unknown quality.

Second, power is not measured in mAH, it's measured in W (or mW).

Thrid, batteries don't store power, they store energy.

Fourth, power is not what you need to compare, energy is what you need
to measure, in WH (or mWH) when you compare costs.

Here are some true comparisons:

A $20, 7.4V, 1800mAH, CGA-S006 stores 13.3WH of energy at a cost of
$1.50 per WH.

A $12 7.4V, 2000mAH BP511 stores 14.8WH of energy at a cost of $0.81 per WH.

A $2.50 1.2V, 2000mAH, Sanyo Eneloop AA cell stores 2.4WH of energy at a
cost of $1.04 per WH.

So in reality, the Li-Ion battery can cost slightly more or less than
the AA batteries, depending on which Li-Ion battery you need.

The real issues regarding the pros and cons of the different batteries
are not related to cost. The sole advantage of AA batteries is that in a
pinch you can buy alkaline AA batteries almost anywhere in the world
(and you're much more likely to need to buy batteries in a pinch for an
AA powered camera!).

For a good web site on this topic, type "nimh vs li-ion" into the Google
search box then click on "I'm Feeling Lucky". It's the premier web site
for information on camera batteries and their trade-offs.

The bottom line is still the availability of AA batteries. Yesterday,
my wife's camera showed symptoms of low battery (it turned out to have
gotten wet), and since we had taken about all the pictures we wanted, I
did nothing about it, but I COULD have just driven 2 blocks and bought
AA alkaline batteries. With lithium ion batteries, this would not have
been an option.
 




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