Where I keep my spare cats.

On 7/1/2017 11:47 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

for instance, the retina imac 5k costs about the same as a dell 5k
display, which is just a display, no computer. you have to add the
cost of the computer, which makes it quite a bit more expensive
than the imac.

You aren't making a fair comparison, here.

oh yes i am.

If the Dell 5K is anything like the the two 25" UP2516D screens that I
have just bought there is an awful lot of memory and computing power
inside to deal with multiple color spaces etc. It's not just a bare
display. I have no idea of how the Apple 5K compares in this respect
or how it handles the equivalent problems.

whatever is needed is part of the imac itself.

And wo makes that decision.




--
PeterN

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

for instance, the retina imac 5k costs about the same as a dell 5k
display, which is just a display, no computer. you have to add the
cost of the computer, which makes it quite a bit more expensive
than the imac.

You aren't making a fair comparison, here.

oh yes i am.

If the Dell 5K is anything like the the two 25" UP2516D screens that I
have just bought there is an awful lot of memory and computing power
inside to deal with multiple color spaces etc. It's not just a bare
display. I have no idea of how the Apple 5K compares in this respect
or how it handles the equivalent problems.

whatever is needed is part of the imac itself.

That's right, so how nay color spaces does it recognise and how are
they calibrated?

as many as you want (within the limits of the panel) and with a
hardware puck.

your mistake is assuming dell is a reference of some sort. it's not.

In article , PeterN
wrote:

Windows users infact, do, upgrade, but with the changes MS has
foisted upon them with Windows 8/8.1 and now, Windows 10, many are
opting not to do so. PC based systems until the past few years with
MS have been about user choice and user options. Unlike Apple.

windows users in general do *not* upgrade because it's a pain in the
ass.


Yup! It's much easier to purchase a new machine.

which is what people normally do, because by the time they outgrow what
they have, the entire machine needs replacing, not just one component.

they want a faster cpu, faster gpu, faster ssd, faster wifi, faster
usb, bluetooth le, higher resolution and wider gamut display, etc., and
by the time they upgrade everything, the entire machine has been
gutted.

it's cheaper and easier to buy a new system, and it comes with a whole
lot more too.

I admit I have never upgraded a Mac. With my Lenovo, it's trivial to
increase HD capacity.

hds are old and slow and they *can't* be upgraded to the latest (and
fastest) ssds.

With my old HP, which last time I looked was a
Windows machine, I repaired and upgraded several times, to expand HD
capacity, until I decided to get a new machine.

last time i looked, the microsoft surface laptop was a windows machine.

try to upgrade it, or even just to fix something. good luck.

you have to physically *cut* the keyboard off with a *knife*, then
*break* the ultrasonic welds inside. it ain't going back together.
ever.

https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Microsoft+Surface+Laptop+Teardown/92915
Verdict: The Surface Laptop is not a laptop. It¹s a glue-filled
monstrosity. There is nothing about it that is upgradable or
long-lasting, and it literally can¹t be opened without destroying it.
(Show us the procedure, Microsoft, we¹d love to be wrong.)

https://www.windowscentral.com/surfa...ptop-get-teard
own-treatment-earn-low-marks-repairability
It's impossible to get into the guts of the machine without cutting
into, and subsequently ruining, the Alcantara. Once inside, soldering
is the real enemy, however: the CPU, RAM, and onboard storage are all
soldered to the motherboard, which puts the kibosh on custom
upgrades. Meanwhile, iFixit notes, the headphone jack and battery are
also very difficult to access and replace.

not that it matters one bit. modern products of all kinds are optimized
for actual use, not to be opened up. surprising as it may seem, people
spend significantly more time *using* the stuff they buy versus opening
it up and looking at the insides.

In article , PeterN
wrote:

If the Dell 5K is anything like the the two 25" UP2516D screens that I
have just bought there is an awful lot of memory and computing power
inside to deal with multiple color spaces etc. It's not just a bare
display. I have no idea of how the Apple 5K compares in this respect
or how it handles the equivalent problems.

whatever is needed is part of the imac itself.

And wo makes that decision.

what kind of ****ed up question is that?? the designers of the product
decide what goes in it, the same as every other product on the planet.

On 7/2/2017 12:24 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:

If the Dell 5K is anything like the the two 25" UP2516D screens that I
have just bought there is an awful lot of memory and computing power
inside to deal with multiple color spaces etc. It's not just a bare
display. I have no idea of how the Apple 5K compares in this respect
or how it handles the equivalent problems.

whatever is needed is part of the imac itself.

And wo makes that decision.

what kind of ****ed up question is that?? the designers of the product
decide what goes in it, the same as every other product on the planet.


Only a ****ed up mind would answer that way. My rhetorical question
obviously referred to what is needed by the user.

--
PeterN

In article , PeterN
wrote:



If the Dell 5K is anything like the the two 25" UP2516D screens that I
have just bought there is an awful lot of memory and computing power
inside to deal with multiple color spaces etc. It's not just a bare
display. I have no idea of how the Apple 5K compares in this respect
or how it handles the equivalent problems.

whatever is needed is part of the imac itself.

And wo makes that decision.

what kind of ****ed up question is that?? the designers of the product
decide what goes in it, the same as every other product on the planet.


Only a ****ed up mind would answer that way. My rhetorical question
obviously referred to what is needed by the user.

the user doesn't design the hardware.

On 7/2/2017 12:24 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:

Windows users infact, do, upgrade, but with the changes MS has
foisted upon them with Windows 8/8.1 and now, Windows 10, many are
opting not to do so. PC based systems until the past few years with
MS have been about user choice and user options. Unlike Apple.

windows users in general do *not* upgrade because it's a pain in the
ass.


Yup! It's much easier to purchase a new machine.

which is what people normally do, because by the time they outgrow what
they have, the entire machine needs replacing, not just one component.


Wrong.

they want a faster cpu, faster gpu, faster ssd, faster wifi, faster
usb, bluetooth le, higher resolution and wider gamut display, etc., and
by the time they upgrade everything, the entire machine has been
gutted.

it's cheaper and easier to buy a new system, and it comes with a whole
lot more too.
For a Mac that's probably true. Not always for a Windows machine.


I admit I have never upgraded a Mac. With my Lenovo, it's trivial to
increase HD capacity.

hds are old and slow and they *can't* be upgraded to the latest (and
fastest) ssds.

Does one always need the latest and fastest. The fact is that HDDs are
regularly upgraded on Windows machines.



With my old HP, which last time I looked was a
Windows machine, I repaired and upgraded several times, to expand HD
capacity, until I decided to get a new machine.

last time i looked, the microsoft surface laptop was a windows machine.

try to upgrade it, or even just to fix something. good luck.




you have to physically *cut* the keyboard off with a *knife*, then
*break* the ultrasonic welds inside. it ain't going back together.
ever.

https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Microsoft+Surface+Laptop+Teardown/92915
Verdict: The Surface Laptop is not a laptop. It¹s a glue-filled
monstrosity. There is nothing about it that is upgradable or
long-lasting, and it literally can¹t be opened without destroying it.
(Show us the procedure, Microsoft, we¹d love to be wrong.)

https://www.windowscentral.com/surfa...ptop-get-teard
own-treatment-earn-low-marks-repairability
It's impossible to get into the guts of the machine without cutting
into, and subsequently ruining, the Alcantara. Once inside, soldering
is the real enemy, however: the CPU, RAM, and onboard storage are all
soldered to the motherboard, which puts the kibosh on custom
upgrades. Meanwhile, iFixit notes, the headphone jack and battery are
also very difficult to access and replace.

You are the only one talking about a surface machine. I specifically
said HP. You are obviously assuming that all Windows machines are MS Surface


not that it matters one bit.

Then why did you bring that up.

modern products of all kinds are optimized
for actual use, not to be opened up. surprising as it may seem, people
spend significantly more time *using* the stuff they buy versus opening
it up and looking at the insides.


True. And include the fact that needs are not static, and often it's
nice to be able to upgrade, rather than purchase a whole new machine.

--
PeterN

On 7/2/2017 12:34 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:



If the Dell 5K is anything like the the two 25" UP2516D screens that I
have just bought there is an awful lot of memory and computing power
inside to deal with multiple color spaces etc. It's not just a bare
display. I have no idea of how the Apple 5K compares in this respect
or how it handles the equivalent problems.

whatever is needed is part of the imac itself.

And wo makes that decision.

what kind of ****ed up question is that?? the designers of the product
decide what goes in it, the same as every other product on the planet.


Only a ****ed up mind would answer that way. My rhetorical question
obviously referred to what is needed by the user.

the user doesn't design the hardware.


Users determine their needs.

--
PeterN

In article , PeterN
wrote:

Windows users infact, do, upgrade, but with the changes MS has
foisted upon them with Windows 8/8.1 and now, Windows 10, many are
opting not to do so. PC based systems until the past few years with
MS have been about user choice and user options. Unlike Apple.

windows users in general do *not* upgrade because it's a pain in the
ass.


Yup! It's much easier to purchase a new machine.

which is what people normally do, because by the time they outgrow what
they have, the entire machine needs replacing, not just one component.


Wrong.

not wrong at all.

very few people upgrade their computers.

the vast majority replace their computer, then give the old one to
someone who doesn't need the latest and greatest, like their kids, the
front desk receptionist, etc.

they want a faster cpu, faster gpu, faster ssd, faster wifi, faster
usb, bluetooth le, higher resolution and wider gamut display, etc., and
by the time they upgrade everything, the entire machine has been
gutted.

it's cheaper and easier to buy a new system, and it comes with a whole
lot more too.
For a Mac that's probably true. Not always for a Windows machine.

it's true for all computers, particularly windows because they become
obsolete so incredibly fast.

in general, macs have a far longer useful life than windows systems.
much longer.

I admit I have never upgraded a Mac. With my Lenovo, it's trivial to
increase HD capacity.

hds are old and slow and they *can't* be upgraded to the latest (and
fastest) ssds.

Does one always need the latest and fastest.

then no need to upgrade, is there?

The fact is that HDDs are
regularly upgraded on Windows machines.

actually, they aren't, but regardless, it's easy to do that on a mac
too.

With my old HP, which last time I looked was a
Windows machine, I repaired and upgraded several times, to expand HD
capacity, until I decided to get a new machine.

last time i looked, the microsoft surface laptop was a windows machine.

try to upgrade it, or even just to fix something. good luck.

you have to physically *cut* the keyboard off with a *knife*, then
*break* the ultrasonic welds inside. it ain't going back together.
ever.

https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Microsoft+Surface+Laptop+Teardown/92915
Verdict: The Surface Laptop is not a laptop. It1s a glue-filled
monstrosity. There is nothing about it that is upgradable or
long-lasting, and it literally can1t be opened without destroying it.
(Show us the procedure, Microsoft, we1d love to be wrong.)

https://www.windowscentral.com/surfa...ptop-get-teard
own-treatment-earn-low-marks-repairability
It's impossible to get into the guts of the machine without cutting
into, and subsequently ruining, the Alcantara. Once inside, soldering
is the real enemy, however: the CPU, RAM, and onboard storage are all
soldered to the motherboard, which puts the kibosh on custom
upgrades. Meanwhile, iFixit notes, the headphone jack and battery are
also very difficult to access and replace.

You are the only one talking about a surface machine. I specifically
said HP. You are obviously assuming that all Windows machines are MS Surface

you are the only one talking about the hp machine.

you are obviously assuming all windows machines are like the hp.

breaking news: they aren't.

there are a *lot* of windows computers that are *much* harder, if not
impossible to upgrade.

ultrabooks have soldered memory and internal batteries, and in fact,
some of them were that way that *before* apple did it.

the microsoft surface studio (the big one, that pivots) is difficult to
open and upgrade.

not that it matters one bit.

Then why did you bring that up.

you're the one who brought up upgradeability. not me.

the reality is that people *use* their computers for actual work.

very, very few dick around inside or upgrade it.

now, if all you do is dick around inside, then buy something that can
be easily opened and easily dicked, and while you're dicking around
inside, everyone else is doing real work and you're falling behind.

oh, and be sure to get the memory sticks that light up. they even make
memory sticks with rgb leds for any colour you want, the absolute
ultimate in dick:
https://gskill.com/en/press/view/g-s...tionary-rgb-li
ghting-ddr4-with-trident-z-rgb-series

modern products of all kinds are optimized
for actual use, not to be opened up. surprising as it may seem, people
spend significantly more time *using* the stuff they buy versus opening
it up and looking at the insides.

True. And include the fact that needs are not static, and often it's
nice to be able to upgrade, rather than purchase a whole new machine.

macs can easily be upgraded, some of which are easier than many windows
systems.

the old powermac g4 was one of the easiest, no tools needed, and it's
even fully operational with the side door open:

https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/6j1Fmc6PY2u6c6GG.huge

it turned out that few people cared.

In article , PeterN
wrote:


If the Dell 5K is anything like the the two 25" UP2516D screens that I
have just bought there is an awful lot of memory and computing power
inside to deal with multiple color spaces etc. It's not just a bare
display. I have no idea of how the Apple 5K compares in this respect
or how it handles the equivalent problems.

whatever is needed is part of the imac itself.

And wo makes that decision.

what kind of ****ed up question is that?? the designers of the product
decide what goes in it, the same as every other product on the planet.

Only a ****ed up mind would answer that way. My rhetorical question
obviously referred to what is needed by the user.

the user doesn't design the hardware.

Users determine their needs.

nobody said otherwise.

you're very confused.